Clan Rotations

[Sanvean]

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=205378#205378

Feel free to ask questions, request clarification, or provide useful feedback.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

House Fale will reopen under the management of Halaster and Nusku, one of whom will probably switch out after six months.

Sweet. Allanak really needs this now, methinks.
Also, is there anyone in charge of magick? Independent magickers? That sort of thing?

[Sanvean]

Also, is there anyone in charge of magick? Independent magickers? That sort of thing?

Right now, the staff handling independents would be the best bet - I'll see if I can find a couple of magic-specific people, since that's a good idea.

[bloodfromstone]

Personally, I don't think we have the playerbase to fully flesh out the noble houses that are already open, much less one more. However, if any of them are going to open up, I'm glad for it to be Fale.

[ale six]

Some initial thoughts about how to help rotations:

1) Find a way to archive player email reports, so that they could be passed on from staffer to staffer. This way, when clan ownership changes, the new people will still have all the old info that the old ones did.

-- Maybe this could be done by setting up email addresses for each clan, which appropriate staff could log into and access? Players could then address clan-related email to HouseFubar@armageddon.org, and then whichever staff are running Fubar will have access to that account and all its past correspondence?

2) Tying into the above, I think more feedback from staff about what to report would be good. Sometimes we as players can be forgetful or leave something out if a lot is going on. Getting emails saying "Hey, can you send an email about what happened with Amos in the Trader's?" would help remind us. Even if the current staffers may know what's going on, the next ones might not.

3) Ditto 2, but with character biographies. Encouragement to put in entries about major events for staff benefit would probably help me use the command more.

4) Unrelated to everything else, would it be possible to know the future schedules of how the rotations will go, when they get worked out? For instance, maybe a couple months before the six-month terms are up, would it be possible to say "Naiona will be moving from Borsail to Fale, Adhira from Kurac to Borsail, and so on?"

[Sanvean]

Unrelated to everything else, would it be possible to know the future schedules of how the rotations will go, when they get worked out? For instance, maybe a couple months before the six-month terms are up, would it be possible to say "Naiona will be moving from Borsail to Fale, Adhira from Kurac to Borsail, and so on?"

Yep, I'm figuring we'll do that for sure.  We've also been talking about the email thing.

[Maybe42or54]

With the openning of the Halflings and the Fale, will there be any closures?

Or is that something Tlaloc is doing?

[Gaare]

Tenneshi and Winrothol?    Allanak will really be even more center with reopenning of Fale and Atrium. What will happen to Tuluk?! More centerazied goverment based on Templarate factions?  I am looking forward to see Tlaloc's post on that.

[Pantoufle]

I think the idea of clan rotation is one of the best implementations this game has seen in many years.  Bravo!

[Sanvean]

Tlaloc's idea is (imo) pretty cool and innovative.  He can post more about that.

[diealot2l2l]

Why don't you guys just make a staff-only private Wiki?

Wiki, similar to wikipedia, you can search it and all kinds of stuff.  NOT a wikipedia entry, that would give away all your secrets, but your own private wiki.

When I was staffing on a MUSH, they started one up so that they could put info relating to the individual places, and spheres, going back as far as they needed to.  All mails about the area, or type of character in question were added to a chart of some sort inside of the wiki, and it provided -all- information that had ever been sent it, or thought up, or submitted to be grouped into a neat little package.  Then, whenever you needed info, or someone was moved to the clan staff, they'd have all the info at their fingertips.  Heck, just make the entire thing accessible to all the staff, and find someone to be purely in charge of organizing the data, and removing unnecessary stuff, like an archivist or something.

You could have one for Allanak, one for Tuluk, one for each House, etc. etc.  I mean, thats assuming you don't have one already.

I could give you the info on how to set it up and everything.. maxjoplin@gmail.com..  I can't currently go look up where to set one up, since I'm at work.

[Halaster]

Less than 2 hours after Sanvean's post and I've already received inquiries about Fale, heh.  So I'm going to say it now:  We're not currently taking applications for Fale.  The first round of Fale nobles are invite-only and we've already taken care of that.  After they've helped Nusku and I get the clan resurrected and back on its feet, then we'll announce openings just like any other clan.

They may, however, eventually hire people...

[mansa]

Halaster, my email is bouncing, can you resend the special invite to me again?  Thanks.

Kidding aside, I definitely agree with diealot with the staff-only wiki about ongoing events.  After setting up two lately at work, it's definitely a life saver for organizing information.  I know one exists on the staff side, so I hope that some immortals have been using it to track everything and anything, even item orders for merchants...

[Vanth]

Yes, we have a staff Wiki.

[Ritley]

Oh! oh! pick me Halasy! pick me!  

[Xygax]

We've had a wiki since early last year, yup.

-- X

[Hot_Dancer]

I'm enjoying it.. a clear posting of staffmembers definitely helps me figure out who to email.

Nice to have Bhagharva back around desert elf land too..

Is he still ..present?

Hot Dancer

[Xygax]

We have an up-to-date listing of staff members maintained here, also:

http://www.armageddon.org/ic/

The data for this page is dynamically generated from a database of staff responsibilities individually maintained by each staff member, so it should be up-to-date for everyone (ie., it doesn't need to be managed by HL/OL staff, everyone can keep their own stuff up-to-date), so you should never have trouble figuring out who to e-mail.

-- X

[Vesperas]

If it just me, or was I the only one who noticed that 'halflings' are also being reopened?

X.x;


I do have the opinion that there seems to be too many clans open, but, eh.. what do I know.  Could be fun.

Edited to add:  I do hope halflings are only available to high-karma individuals.  I can see the people-eating concepts now.

[Intrepid]

You mean like a halfling who wields a fork and knife as weapons and runs into battle
wearing a belt of spice pouches?

Keep in mind, some clans may have been closed as well, V.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Keep in mind, some clans may have been closed as well, V.

One can hope.

Tooo many clans openning and we'll have the same problem we once had of nobody to be found. But if, and this is what I'm really hoping for, if we can open the Southern Clans, and create a completely different system for the Northlands that focuses more on independants while giving the same helping hand that clans do, I think we'll be able to offer a bit of the best for all the world.

[Intrepid]

I'm ultimately surprised that Fale was reopened.  It seemed a while back that there
were some bad feelings toward the clan for not being quite in keeping with what was
considered the theme of the city and the game in general.

That said, Fale takes only a nudge, imo, to make it as overtly dark as the rest of Allanak
while still maintaining that bacchnalian and almost harlequin flavor--a combination
which can be rather chilling and engaging, when you think about it.

As long as the upper houses mind their manners and allow Fale to be Fale, I think all
will be well.

For the imms, I do hope that guidance is given to the coming generation of Fales.  It's
not an admonishment by any means, just an acknowledgement of where I think things
went wrong in previous incarnations of the house.  Lots of people have their assumptions
of what Fale is, and most of them are incorrect--perhaps I am as well.

[Sanvean]

For the imms, I do hope that guidance is given to the coming generation of Fales.

Yep.  Considerable discussion about how to make Fale more in keeping with the overall flavor of the mud has taken place and Nusku and Halaster have been working hard at revising the docs in order to make expectations and guidelines clear for the players.

[Bebop]

Northlands Admin - Tlaloc I noticed that there was nothing specified for Noble Houses just one IMM to generally handle those issues.  One IMM that also has other responsibilities to other clans.  And just the northern Templarate/Militia.  Isn't this just kind of throwing all of the northern Chosen Houses together under one IMM a bit much?  Tlaloc is awesome and all but that seems a bit much, kind of like the northern noble houses and government are taking a backseat all squished under one person's supervision while Fale and the Atrium are reopened in the south.  I'm just wondering why there are no northern Houses are listed with their own IMMs?

This is who I am gathering is on what currently:

Akei Ta Var: Sanvean

Allanaki Templarate:  Halaster

The Atrium:  Morgenes, Vanth

Bards of Poet Circle:  Qetesh, Xygax

House Borsail:  Naiona, Olgaris

Desert Elves:  Dakurus, Rimius, Bhagharva

House Fale:  Halster, Nusuku

The Guild:  Qetesh, Nechomacus, Xygax

Halflings:  Sanvean, Nusuku, Olgaris

Independents: Bhagharva, Nechomacus, Naiona

Kadius Qetesh, Vanth

Kurac: Adhira, Tlaloc

Oash: Ashyom, Nessalin

Salarr: Eniriah, Dakurus

Tan Muark: Adhira, Nessalin

Tor: Eniriah, Vanth

Tuluki Templarate: Tlaloc, Ashyom

Tzai Byn: Olgaris, Bhagharva

(And this is how it will be until 6 months from now at least?)

(I just took out their terms to make it easier to see who is on what at first glance.) So for now, these are the people that should be contacted about certain clans.  And anything reguarding any other Northern Templarate, Northern Houses, or Northern Tuluk Militia should be sent to Tlaloc and Ashyom?

[Sanvean]

I'm just wondering why there are no northern Houses are listed with their own IMMs?

Because what Tlaloc is working on is a revamp of the approach to northern nobility and I don't want to post about it yet.  He can reveal the details.

[flurry]

I'm thrilled that the biters and Fale are opening.   I'm also curious what's going to happen with the Tuluk noble houses.

[John]

Some initial thoughts about how to help rotations:

1) Find a way to archive player email reports, so that they could be passed on from staffer to staffer. This way, when clan ownership changes, the new people will still have all the old info that the old ones did.

-- Maybe this could be done by setting up email addresses for each clan, which appropriate staff could log into and access? Players could then address clan-related email to HouseFubar@armageddon.org, and then whichever staff are running Fubar will have access to that account and all its past correspondence?

Actually, it would be possible to set up a filter to forward all e-mails to the clan imms. They'd just login into the House e-mail to send e-mails.

[John]

We have an up-to-date listing of staff members maintained here, also:

http://www.armageddon.org/ic/

The data for this page is dynamically generated from a database of staff responsibilities individually maintained by each staff member, so it should be up-to-date for everyone (ie., it doesn't need to be managed by HL/OL staff, everyone can keep their own stuff up-to-date), so you should never have trouble figuring out who to e-mail.

-- X

Thankyou. I tended to rely on the weekly updates, so with that on sporadic the page helps a lot

[Bebop]

I'm just wondering why there are no northern Houses are listed with their own IMMs?

Because what Tlaloc is working on is a revamp of the approach to northern nobility and I don't want to post about it yet.  He can reveal the details.

Oooooh.

[SpyGuy]

I'm thrilled that the biters and Fale are opening.   I'm also curious what's going to happen with the Tuluk noble houses.

Me too, with 4 noble Houses I personally can't wait to see the politics go into full swing.  I was pretty sure this is what was happening when it was announced two noble houses would close but now i really want to see what's going to happen with the North.  Looks promising over.

Question:  Sometimes I've noticed in clans that one Imm takes the forefront in all correspondence and from a player perspective it sometimes seems that one Imm is the one mainly in charge while the other is far less active.  In the clan rotation system how will that be balanced if the more active imm is phased out and the current imm that is left over has been less directly involved?  Will there be more of a focus on staff now to be equally involved in all clans they head (as RL allows of course) so that transitions aren't chaotic?

[Intrepid]

Yep.  Considerable discussion about how to make Fale more in keeping with the overall flavor of the mud has taken place and Nusku and Halaster have been working hard at revising the docs in order to make expectations and guidelines clear for the players.

That could only end in awesome.  Best news I've heard in a long time, in fact.  I
always liked Fale as a clan, and I do hope they do really well this time around.

[zanthalandreams]

To shift a little bit from the Fale and Halflings thread:  


The only thing I worry about with rotating clan Imms is a lack of stability.  I have had some long-lived characters in a clan and lived through several "changing of the guard" situations when we got new clan imms.  Every single time, there was a new interpretation of clan documentation, of How We Do Things Here, of even basic NPC relationships with current PCs.   Some times it has been subtle shifts, other times it has been rather blunt, abrupt "my way or the highway" type changes that didn't seem to take into account the work of long-lived PCs.

I am excited at the positive potential here, but wary of having to adapt to new rules and new bosses every six months.

[Maybe42or54]

I'm sure the first couple rotations will be tough, but then the staff will act as One. A second Ginka, as it were.

When is Tlaloc going to post? I'm on the edge of my uncomfortable seat.

[Anonymous]

The only thing I worry about with rotating clan Imms is a lack of stability.  I have had some long-lived characters in a clan and lived through several "changing of the guard" situations when we got new clan imms.  Every single time, there was a new interpretation of clan documentation, of How We Do Things Here, of even basic NPC relationships with current PCs.   Some times it has been subtle shifts, other times it has been rather blunt, abrupt "my way or the highway" type changes that didn't seem to take into account the work of long-lived PCs.

This is exactly my concern.  Having had a pretty long-lived PC in a clan that went through 3 leaders I found it very frustrating.  I'm not very sure of the benefits of something like this but I'll wait to experience it more before I complain.

Having said that, I have to admit to probably having done exactly that to a long-lived PC back when I was on staff.  Regrettably, it wasn't until I went through the same thing that I understood where they were coming from.

[Morfeus]

When is Tlaloc going to post? I'm on the edge of my uncomfortable seat.

You are not alone. I am checking GDB every five minutes since Sanvean's post.  :roll:

[zanthalandreams]

I'll wait to experience it more before I complain.

Oh yeah, I agree with that.   I'm wary and I'm not all that happy about the thought of losing my clan imm, but it could be a very good thing.  It may highlight the necessity to respect the long-lived PC leadership as a necessary partner in the effectiveness of a clan.

[Delirium]

I'm wary and I'm not all that happy about the thought of losing my clan imm, but it could be a very good thing.  It may highlight the necessity to respect the long-lived PC leadership as a necessary partner in the effectiveness of a clan.

Pretty much my thoughts.

[John]

This is exactly my concern.  Having had a pretty long-lived PC in a clan that went through 3 leaders I found it very frustrating.  I'm not very sure of the benefits of something like this but I'll wait to experience it more before I complain.

I'd say it's the eradication of this (at least that's an aim I'd say). With only having 1 year in 1 clan, the staff will hopefully become very conscious of what has gone before and what will come when they leave. They'd be more considerate to past events staff and players have done. Also the 1 6month "teaching period" will mean the new staff member has 6 months to get use to the old method.

Whether or not it works like that in practice we'll have to wait and see (and I could be wrong, perhaps that isn't a goal)

[Anonymous]

I'd say it's the eradication of this (at least that's an aim I'd say). With only having 1 year in 1 clan, the staff will hopefully become very conscious of what has gone before and what will come when they leave.

A year is a long time.  The character I had that went through 3 different clan leaders lived for about 15 months which would be a smaller interval for leadership change than once a year.  The 6 month 'teaching period' may very well take care of all my concerns as you said, though.

[Tlaloc]

When is Tlaloc going to post? I'm on the edge of my uncomfortable seat.

You are not alone. I am checking GDB every five minutes since Sanvean's post.  :roll:

We're still working on some of the OOC logistics and setup for these changes. I've got a few minions working overtime to help me with this, and I've been really pleased with the progress so far. Only half of the changes will be posted about on the GDB (at least at first) - the rest require some IC setup, so they don't simply come out of nowhere in-game.

Suffice it to say I'm as excited as you guys to push the 'go' button on this one.

[Anonymous person]

Bump!

I just spent some time trying to find some realistic reasons why clan NPCs suddenly started to act totally different than usually (not knowing things, not knowing relations etc.). I have a reason to believe the only reason behind this was change of IMMs. And however I see benefits of this change, it made me to dislike it. Seriously.

[SpyGuy]

That was a great bump, definitely something for all the new staff to keep in mind when animating clan NPCs.

[Marauder Moe]

On the other hand, I was under the impression that we haven't had an Imm rotation yet...

[Morfeus]

On the other hand, I was under the impression that we haven't had an Imm rotation yet...

I believe the first post on this thread announces it started at May. The first change already happened then.

[Armaddict]

Agreed, good bump.

Myself...I haven't experienced the rotation itself yet, but some things happening really make me think I won't like this.  Staff changes to a clan really do feel like a 'reset' button on everything you've worked for.  And like it or not, a working relationship is built between you and those who are running your clan.  When it changed, it gave me an OOC setback.

Yes, the change of play for npc's, or the sudden disappearance of npc's whom you work with closely, is jarring.  Yes, the change of goals, objectives, and 'mood' of a clan, or the sudden change in staff members with whom you're supposed to work with closely, is jarring.

[Barzalene]

I HATE CHANGE. So, when I originally read about these clan rotations I thought uh oh. But like it or not they're happening. And I keep finding that all the things that have changed that I've resisted so violently have usually worked out ok. (Like when they changed stun a few years ago.)

So, while this is in effect, and in case it stays in effect forever instead of disliking it, maybe the thing to do is try to make it go as smoothly as possible.

Would it help if when the rotations came, clan memebers were asked or took it upon themselves to write a note to the new imms, describing your current understanding of your pc's place in the clan, in the world, and their interactions with various npcs and the powers that be generally? I really think that while it may not be the same, it's would ease the way. Additionally, it couldn't hurt to give your impressions of npcs you deal with, note what you've noticed as their habits and personality traits. I think for the sake of continuity it would be worth it for every clannie to spend twenty minutes writing something up, and for the new staff members to take the time to read the feedback.

[Belenos]

I would like to second Barzalene's post.  Letting us know what you are up to can go a long way to helping us to help you. This includes all the unclanned characters. Feel free to email us, and don't forget to cc the mud account.

[Cale_Knight]

Rather than putting this burden on the players, I think the imms need to be more responsible when it comes to documenting NPC interaction with PCs.

Do NPCs have their own biographies? If not, code them in! If so, make heavy use of them. Note every single important interaction with clan PCs, titling each with the name of the PC involves and a brief summary.

That way, when a new imm rotates in, all he has to do is catch up with the most recent batch of biography entries. Time-consuming? Yes. But infinitely preferable to a period where NPCs act completely out of character.

Emails from PCs can only go so far when it comes to keeping NPCs consistant.

[Morgenes]

If you have concerns about the roleplay of a NPC, especially one in your clan, you should contact your clan staff about it via email.  If for some reason you are uncomfortable mailing your clan staff about it, feel free to mail your complaints directly to mud@armageddon.org.

Like it or not, you guys do not know all of the drivers behind every NPC in the game, and they may have had reason to act the way they did.  Just because an NPC acts inconsistently, doesn't mean there has been a drop in staff communication or that we are somehow not roleplaying the NPC correctly.

We do as much as we can to document and hand off the staff rotations.  This is our first rotation, so we hope you will cut us some slack as we get used to the process and as we progress on ways to make it easier for us and you.

That said, I think enough has been said on this topic.  If you have further concerns send them in email as expressed above.

Locked.