What I'd like to see.

[Anarchy (not logged in)]

I'd like to open a discussion on two things i'd love to see happen on Armageddon.

1 - The desert elf outpost. I'd like to see this handed over to players (or taken away by blackwing) - allow the outpost to be expanded in size and goods and developed into a trading hub run - by elves. Elves have a culture, and i'd like to see it in full glory. Allow city elves to go to this location at chargen,  visitors are assulted by hordes of elven merchants trying to sell their goods, elven thieves lurk nearby - everyone is welcome, as long as they can afford to pay. (Think silverspring tribe from the source book "Elves of Athas")

2 - Rooftops. I want to see more. For people who have huddled around  drying mud pools of hope, why isn't there a "second" level to the major cities? We have small cities and lots of people, no? A hide and sandcloth tent city build ontop of the mud brick homes on the street level with rope-bridges connecting homes and quarters together, minimal milita presence, a few steps above the rinth, a place where the poorer citizens dwell.

[Sir Diealot]

Both of these seem like good ideas.

If they'd been implemented already.

 Perhaps, if you worked toward setting this sort of thing up IG, it would come to pass.  As is, however, its not done, and it would be jarring to have it -appear-.  The elf thing could be done, you just have to get influence/start the movement.  And the city thing would probably be -very- hard to start up.

Good ideas, near-impossible to just ADD.

[Synthesis]

Uh, if you had the good fortune to have control over a good dwelling place, like a mudbrick house, or control of a good shop location (like a mudbrick building), would you want a bunch of derelicts up there hanging around and acting shady all the time?

Yeah, you should be able to climb across the rooftops in places, when you need to get somewhere without being seen, but there shouldn't be a second level of the city up there.  It should be something you do only at night, when people on the ground below aren't going to be looking up and pointing you out to the militia.

Now, I can see some shopkeepers or some home renters/owners adding a second level of tent-like structures on top of their houses to provide temporary shelter for extra relatives, or places to say, dry meat or hang the laundry...but they certainly aren't going to let the bums build up a tent city on top of their hard-earned dwelling.

As far as the Blackwing outpost, it will never be a hub of commerce.  Why?  Elves really don't have anything that's worth travelling that far.  You have to travel through dangerous territory, risking your life, for what? Some mead that's obviously not good enough for the elves to drink themselves, or some gear that they didn't find useful enough to keep for their brothers and sisters?  I'm guessing that Blackwing outpost is there for one reason only:  to keep other organizations from moving in and taking over their shit.  These are hardasses who've built a civilization out of some of the worst territory in the Known World.  They don't need anything from anybody, except to be left the fuck alone.

[Forty Winks]

Blackwing outpost as it is currently mirrors the tribal lifestyle of the desert elves there well enough. If you want to change that to take in city-elves and make it more similar to city-states, that's something that would need to be changed IG though some -large- projects. I'm not saying its not doable, but I find it unlikely that it'll happen, in any case.

As for the rooftops, that's more of an OOC issue.

[Hymwen]

I don't think a city of rooftop tents would survive the first sandstorm.

As for the Desert Outpost, I've never been there, so I don't have an opinion.

[Hot_Dancer]

Want population and interaction in the Desert Elf Outpost? Consider visiting for trade. Tribes are different, and while it could be expected that most elven tribes would travel and go after their needs as they presented themselves (if no suitable alternative was available) it's not totally correct that the same tribe wouldn't like or enjoy the luxury of things of need and vice being brought to them.

That way someone else braved the dangers of travel...

Hot Dancer

[Angela Christine]

The shabby top floor thing could be added, it would just be one of those things that have always been there but not involved PCs until now.

Shabby roof-top dwellings would be more like cheapo trailer parks than shanty towns.  They people who live up there would mostly still be paying rent (or bribes) to whoever owns the building, but renting a piece of rooftop would be cheaper than renting a room inside a building.  They wouldn't blow away if secured to the roof, tribal tent cities don't blow away either.

Another option for posh tenements is to make their roof a common area for all the tenants to use.  The roof would be the perfect place to have a common built-in bring-your-own-fuel cooking area, to discourage tenants from having fires inside their rooms.


Angela Christine

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

There have to be roofs for there to be roof-top tent-villages. The ambitious OP should maybe take a character and map of where roof-tops should all be, write it all up and send it all in, so he can then spearhead that movement.

[Bebop]

I like the ideas of more rooftops.  I think there should be that and more climbing areas, like in the forest I think most of the squares in the forests you should be able to climb among the trees and be able to at least climb one square up.  Makes for some good RP, or at least some interesting travel.  Same with rooftops, I want to see people being able to creep around from the rooftops and look over the world below to thieve and hide.  I don't know about little villages atop roofs o.O.  No I don't think so.  But places -have- to have roofs.

[Anon Kank]

Do you know what kind of trees grow in the forest?

This is not a fancy, Middle-Earth forest, with interconnected cities, and massive spanning branches..  This is more a sparse forest, like a juniper-ish forest in Texas.  Its thick enough to be called a forest, but in no way are the trees suitable for climbing (At least, the vast majority are not, there are trees now and again that you can climb.)  I'm all for an individual tree or two to climb (which there may just be  :wink: )  But I think canopy running Dwarfs, Elves, and HGs are contrary to the theme.  Yes, even in Tuluk.

Besides, what if someone comes in and cuts down Access-Routes 1-4.. Does a tree magickally grow back, and allow for access once more, or does that entire area just go away

[LoD]

I'd like to open a discussion on two things i'd love to see happen on Armageddon.

1 - The desert elf outpost. I'd like to see this handed over to players (or taken away by blackwing) - allow the outpost to be expanded in size and goods and developed into a trading hub run - by elves. Elves have a culture, and i'd like to see it in full glory. Allow city elves to go to this location at chargen,  visitors are assulted by hordes of elven merchants trying to sell their goods, elven thieves lurk nearby - everyone is welcome, as long as they can afford to pay. (Think silverspring tribe from the source book "Elves of Athas")

The desert elf outpost was not always there.  It was created ICly over time, like many projects, and one of my characters was responsible for providing a good deal of money and armor that went directly to the construction and fortification of said outpost before it was constructed.  If you'd like to see the outpost taken out of the Blackwing's hands, then perhaps you should arrange likewise IC events to make it happen.

As for putting things in "the hands the players".  This is generally avoided in any permanent village/outpost (Red Storm, Cenyr, Luir's) because players come and go, ebb and flow, take breaks, die, etc...  Keeping a level of cinsistency becomes an issue and so these places will likely never be placed in the player's hands, though you could certainly pursue an influential role with your PC should that be your goal.

Take time to remember that very little about the game from its code to its culture and geography has come about quickly on a whim.  Much of it was arranged, planned and pursued in game either completely by PC's or partially by PC's efforts.  Any proposed changes to the gameworld should be submitted with the understanding that it may take some elbow grease and personal effort.

Additions to the gameworld that expand upon what is already there virtually (i.e. rooftops, alleys, etc...) are another matter, but there are still considerations to make when you make such a request.

-LoD

[Anonymous]

This is not a fancy, Middle-Earth forest, with interconnected cities, and massive spanning branches..  This is more a sparse forest, like a juniper-ish forest in Texas.  Its thick enough to be called a forest, but in no way are the trees suitable for climbing (At least, the vast majority are not, there are trees now and again that you can climb.)  

While I MOSTLY agree with you, at least inasfar as "majority" is concerned, I would have to interject that Baobab trees are, indeed, tall enough to climb.  In fact, they're large enough to live under, inside, and in the branches of.

While the forest is not an interconnected set of baobab's, either, there are certainly some trees that should be able to be climbed and could be used in a limited fashion for some things.  A significantly fostered baboab thicket could, for example, exist, and serve as the arboreal clan home of some really nature-dedicated tribe for example.

[Anon Kank]

I completely agree, Davien.  I'm not against a couple rooms above a baobab thicket.  I am against the giant interconnected forest, though.

[Hymwen]

(googled for 'baobab')

These are the trees we cut down with hand-made flint axes?

[diealot2l2l]

Thats the size they can grow to in a lush environment.

I imagine a tree that size, stunted as it would be from the near-drought conditions, would be able to be chopped down with flint axes (and a lot of work.)  And, would also be able to be climbed.

[amoeba]

Thats the size they can grow to in a lush environment.

I imagine a tree that size, stunted as it would be from the near-drought conditions, would be able to be chopped down with flint axes (and a lot of work.)  And, would also be able to be climbed.

The forest did not spring up after the desertification of Zalanthas. This is a layover from lusher times.  I would imagine that many of these trees are very,  very old.  I doubt you cut down the larger ones.  

That being said, I'm not much into a canopy habitat. Mostly because I feel it is a diversion from the dying desert theme. At least not for the currently playable races.

[diealot2l2l]

I didn't think about that, good point amoeba.