New Accent

[Intrepid]

Just as the Rinth has its own accent and the tribes get theirs, I believe
the aristocrats of both city-states should each have their own.

Why, you might ask?

:arrow:  Nobility, particularly in Allanak but also to a lesser extent in Tuluk, grow
up in relative isolation among their peers.

:arrow:  They are given the proper education and tools to speak in a more stately
form of Sirihish than the vernacular-wielding masses of the lower classes.

:arrow:  Nobles are always trying to establish a manner seperate from the other
classes to prove their superiority.  This would just be one more method.

This implementation could be done one of two ways:

:idea:  There could be a single aristocratic accent for both north and south, which
is possible given the semi-merging of societies during Allanak's imperium.  However,
this could make it codedly easier for an infiltrator in the ranks.

:idea: There could be an "aristocratic northern accent" and an "aristocratic southern
accent", each taking the proper inflections or Sirihish as perceived by their patron
city-state and forming a sort of high manner of speaking.

If accents work like language families, a northerner has a higher chance of learning
the aristocratic version of their region than, say, a southerner.

Who would get this?

Simple: Templars, Nobles and family members of the great merchant houses.

[joyofdiscord]

I tend to be against most suggestions for changes to the language system because they usually run counter to the way languages actually work, and the current system is a pretty decent linguistic simulation.  However, this idea is indeed a good one.  I'd lean toward having separate aristocratic accents for north and south.

[Hymwen]

Weeeell... the idea isn't that bad, but I don't think it's necessary. Also, I think that often nobles are distinguished from commoners by their way of speaking and their choice of words, and I don't think that a whole new accent would have developed. The 'rinth has its own because it's pretty much a town of its own where the vast majority of the inhabitants never leave.

[joyofdiscord]

The 'rinth has its own because it's pretty much a town of its own where the vast majority of the inhabitants never leave.

You realize this is also a pretty darn accurate description of the Noble Quarter too, right?

[Hymwen]

The 'rinth has its own because it's pretty much a town of its own where the vast majority of the inhabitants never leave.

You realize this is also a pretty darn accurate description of the Noble Quarter too, right?

Many nobles go outside their quarter. Nobles have slaves. Nobles have aides, do business with commoners, have staffs and/or units of commoners/guards/etc. working for them, and otherwise interact with commoners.´Most 'rinthers have never seen someone from outside the 'rinth.

[Intrepid]

Weeeell... the idea isn't that bad, but I don't think it's necessary. Also, I think that often nobles are distinguished from commoners by their way of speaking and their choice of words, and I don't think that a whole new accent would have developed. The 'rinth has its own because it's pretty much a town of its own where the vast majority of the inhabitants never leave.

I agree, of all the things Morg could be coding, I'd be really surprised if he
batted an eye at this idea.  There are a lot more important things to be
added into Arm.

Accents today have more to do with region, but in an ancient civilization
where social class is everything, classes almost developed whole new
dialects.  If I'm recalling correctly, German's linguistic history consisted
of High and Low tongues that sprang from the difference in classes.

Nobles, particularly in Nak, associate primarily with one another and spend
most of their time inside the Noble's Quarter.  It may not be as true for
Tuluk, since nobles do associate with their patrons and make friends.

[Cale_Knight]

I think this is one of those things that's best represented by an effort on the player's part.

Nobles should speak more eloquently than commoners and show their superiority that way - not just by having "in nobilish-accent sirhisih" tacked onto their says.

[SpyGuy]

I'm with Cale_Knight.  It's a logical idea but it isn't like anyone could really have a hope in hell of impersonating a noble for long whether they had a coded accent or not.  And it's far more entertaining to see noble PCs roleplay out having an actual education which they'd have to do anyways, and that usually gives a natural divide.

Plus it'd be like having Tatlum on your skills sheet.  If you ever branched a noble's accent you could never use it unless you became a very VERY high ranking aide.  Otherwise you'd probably just offend every noble/templar in the city and get offed for being uppity.

[Intrepid]

I think this is one of those things that's best represented by an effort on the player's part.

Nobles should speak more eloquently than commoners and show their superiority that way - not just by having "in nobilish-accent sirhisih" tacked onto their says.

True, but any accent could be represented through roleplay.  How do the
other accents maintain validity when you could just roleplay them?

[LoD]

There is a logical difference between the 'rinth and the noble quarters.

The 'rinth contains many a people that will never see the city proper.  Not only that, but their environment includes quite possibly the largest collection of non-humans to be found in any given location within Allanak.  Except on very rare occasions, templars, soldiers, commoners and nobles never step foot in the 'rinth and so its cultural seclusion is a bit more profund than anywhere else in Allanak.

The Noble's Quarter, while certainly housing its fair share of shut-ins, recluses and uppity folk too proud to mingle with the common class, does have visitors that frequent the common quarters.  Templars, merchants, servants, soldiers, guards and other professions have a foot both in both quarters, and so the interaction and language is not quite as far removed.  There are certainly nobles that frequent taverns and shops in the common quarters, moreso than would ever be seen slumming in the alleys of the 'rinth.

People pickup dialects, vocabulary and inflections from those around them, and while the commons would be privy to conversations ranging from nobles, templars, merchants and professionals, the 'rinth would actually be working in reverse order.  Rinthi today might actually be vastly different from 'rinthi in 100 years because when you have such a secluded and broken society lacking in family values, education and morals, it's almost like taking society and makin a copy.  Then making a copy of that copy, and again, and again, until you are left with something completely unlike its origin.

Nobles and templars have schools, books, language, forms, rules and, most of all, a level of consistency that differs greatly from the dirty confines of the 'rinth.

These are just a few of the factors that demonstrate the degree to which the culture of the 'rinth differs from the rest of the City, Noble's Quarter included.

-LoD

[Intrepid]

Fair enough.

Still, the idea is available if the imms ever get bored.  

[Sir Diealot]

Know what I'd like?  A 'rinth' language.

Its like the super-junped up version of 'street' today.  The only reason 'street' is easy for us to understand, is because of mass media.  If you'd never heard anything like it, it'd sound like a different language completely.  Such is the case with the rinth.

[Anonymous]

I still contend that:

A) if you want a special code-language it can be developed in game (by introducing slang, hand-signals, etc) so the Rinthers could do that.  I find the idea of musical instrument (like drums) language interesting because it's not something that can be done with current speech code.

B) the introduction of the accents that have already been introduced to the game (i.e. northern and southern sirihish) have done an incredible amount of damage to playability because of the ICly justifiable OOC prejudices between the citystates.  I would personally hate to see this made worse.

Don't believe me?  Try to make a merchant who trades between citystates and see how long before you're executed for being a Northern/Southern spy just because of the starting location you picked.

[Sir Diealot]

Oh no!!!  Southrons hate Northerners!  Northerners hate Southrons!  WHAT IS ZALANTHAS COMING TO!!!??!??!?!?!?!   :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Don't believe me?  Try to make a merchant who trades between citystates and see how long before you're executed for being a Northern/Southern spy just because of the starting location you picked.

I am completely in support of this continuing.

This is so very much not a bad thing.

[Cenghiz]

I once recruited a newbie from Turkey. He wanted a merchant. I spent a night telling him the history, the traditions, bla bla...

I was watching him from time to time. I was sure there would be no player interaction between us, I was a gemmer in south and he was a merchant in north. So I also let him watch my game to have a feel for the game and I watched his game to correct his mistakes.

One day, when I went to watch him, I found out that he was travelling to Allanak with his noob merchant. I first thought "Gith will finish him." but didn't tell, it would be IC. He managed to use 'look' and 'run' effectively to get away.

Then I saw he came aside a Tor Lady at the gates. I thought "Now he's for sure dead." but didn't tell, because it would be IC. He looked at the noble, turned to me and yelled: "Wow! A noble ring!". Then he bowed, remained bowed (to confess, I adopted this behaviour from his character even though I am the veteran and he is the noob) emoted signs of fear mixed with respect perfectly. He was questioned by the Lady Tor and he answered everything respectfully, then he explained his will to sell the wood stacked on his inix. The Lady Tor was interested, but she said she needed wood in logs and told my friend's char she'll be willing to buy as many as he can bring as logs. He quickly sold the wood he brought and headed back to Tuluk. I told him to log out for some chatter in Luir's Outpost.

I asked him why he was respectful to a barbarian. He told me: "Barbarian or not, she was a noble, higher cast. My commoner knows that he's some filthy blood and has respect for the higher cast. You yourself told me not to become the exception.". And again I confess, this is also what I adopted for my characters. Most commoners would believe even barbarian nobles are nobles, people deserving respect.

Then I stopped watching him and never let him watch my game again. I was trusting him that he had a good grasp in the gameworld, we needn't have any more OOC conversations about current characters and future ones. After my graduation, I couldn't contact him any more again, but I'm sure he's still playing.

The point is: He was a noob. The noble was Tor - as far as I know they're the harshest and most merciless against the attempts to spying and traitors -, he was unaffiliated and he managed to form a business contact. It's not impossible. Just be respectful, aim only trade, do not filth the streets of the opposite city state more than needed. Then you'll be fine.