Warriors expending stamina

[jmordetsky]

While were on the subject, I think if Warriors are going to expell stam to use their skills, maybe we should give them the ability to fight more ferociously for a short period of time in exchange for stamina points.

Like a boost, or a beserk command.

This would make them the masters of fighting more intensely and strategically managing their wind and what not.

[RunningMountain]

Kind of like a pump of adrenaline? Something they already have in battle anyway. I'd like to see maybe stances go in for various parts of the world.

[Yang]

Actually there are methods of meditation which allow you to practice the control over various states of your body. Uncontrolled adreneline in a combat situation is quite different from the controlled adreneline management of someone having practiced various meditation exercises to regulate the substance. Also, let us take into account ki or 'chi' ... something which only a master warrior will have learned to capitalize on fully.

While I think that warriors become quite strong enough, I also disagree that there is one type of relationship to adreneline-rush situations.

[Yokunama]

While were on the subject, I think if Warriors are going to expell stam to use their skills, maybe we should give them the ability to fight more ferociously for a short period of time in exchange for stamina points.

I'd like to bring this back up:
The stamina penalty doesn't effect the warrior class only.

If you want to fight more ferociously, become a better fighter through the art of training. Also, add a bit of strategy into your gameplay.

[Cale_Knight]

The stamina penalty doesn't effect the warrior class only.

For god's sake, would you quit beating that horse? It's dead already.

Yes, we all know that some subguilds get kick.

We all know that there is a minute, tiny, not-very-likely chance to gain the other warrior skills on a non-warrior.

But that has absolutely nothing to do with the point at hand, the discussion, or anything else. Stop bringing it up. It means nothing. The stamina penalty to warrior skills affects 100% of all warriors in the game and .00000005% of everyone else.

[jstorrie]

This suggestion doesn't make any sense to me. Why would a warrior be a master of controlling his effort any more or less than anyone else?

I wouldn't mind the option of some sort of defensive/offensive stances (are you heedlessly trying to take the other guy down? trying to save your own neck? etc) but this warrior-stamina business seems to be getting a bit played out. Warriors are already the best fighters in the game by a massive margin and I don't see any reason to encourage hack-and-slash play by introducing unnecessary toy-commands.

Finally I would hope that people do not bring up the kick/bash/disarm issue again here, since it already has several open threads dedicated to it. I'm not even sure why this idea needed its own thread, to be honest.

[spawnloser]

The stamina penalty doesn't effect the warrior class only.

For god's sake, would you quit beating that horse? It's dead already.

I'm sure people will stop bringing this up as soon as people stop bitching that kick/bash/disarm eat stamina and that it affects warriors so that warriors are TEH SUKX.

[Agent_137]

i would absolutely -love- to see some sort of beserk command, in any form.

it's classical fantasy that I miss here in armageddon, AND it's realisitic, AND it adds to playability.

Drawbacks? I see none.

Can we have it please? I dont' care what restrictions you place on it. i'm sure the immortals can come up with something balanced.

[Armaddict]

I...actually...wouldn't mind seeing berserkers, either.

[Tlaloc]

There are berserkers already in-game.

They're called 'Muls'.

[jhunter]

There are berserkers already in-game.

They're called 'Muls'.

Unfortunately they are almost completely unplayable as a pc race anymore. Unless you want to be a slave or an escaped slave. Other than that, there isn't really anything else you can do with them.

[John]

Unfortunately they are almost completely unplayable as a pc race anymore. Unless you want to be a slave or an escaped slave. Other than that, there isn't really anything else you can do with them.

While yes you will have to play an escaped slave, that doesn't entirely limit your possibilities. And if you don't like the options for muls, create your own. After all, the dwarves were once a slave race. And a player once did come along and free some slaves from the obsidian mines.

Now dwarves are a much easier race to free (given the fact they're fertile and obsessed little buggers), that doesn't mean it's impossible. It merely means it might take longer and you'll have more obstacles to face. AFAIK having an entire race become free and allowed to walk about in polite society hasn't happened by players in game. That doesn't mean it's impossible for it to happen. Or you can always try to steal Winrothol's or Borsail's method of creating muls. Or invent your own method and overtake an entire town. Anything's possible. You just have to try, and not give up when the tinniest obstacle appears in your way.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

i would absolutely -love- to see some sort of beserk command, in any form.

it's classical fantasy that I miss here in armageddon, AND it's realisitic, AND it adds to playability.

Drawbacks? I see none.

Can we have it please? I dont' care what restrictions you place on it. i'm sure the immortals can come up with something balanced.

I agree with you, but ... I can't believe you didn't say, "Roleplay it."

Heh.

[Agent_137]

I do, but it doesn't give me coded benefits of beserking, so it's toothless.

If we even had a "reduce skill" command, I could always fight at 75% and then jump up to 100% to beserk.

And muls aren't beserkers. THey're just beserk. big difference.

[Cale_Knight]

If we even had a "reduce skill" command, I could always fight at 75% and then jump up to 100% to beserk.

Code Select Expand

Panting and backing away, but smiling broadly, you say to the short, burly man, in sirihish:
     "I admit it. You are better than I am."

Squinting, the short, burly man says to you, in sirihish:
     "Then why are you smiling?"

You say to the short, burly man, in sihirish:
      "Because I know something you do not."

change hands es ep
You wield a bone rapier.

change skill 100
You are now fighting at 100% of your skill level.

You exclaim to the short, burly man, in sihirish:
      "I am not left-handed!"

[FightClub]

If we even had a "reduce skill" command, I could always fight at 75% and then jump up to 100% to beserk.

Code Select Expand

Panting and backing away, but smiling broadly, you say to the short, burly man, in sirihish:
     "I admit it. You are better than I am."

Squinting, the short, burly man says to you, in sirihish:
     "Then why are you smiling?"

You say to the short, burly man, in sihirish:
      "Because I know something you do not."

change hands es ep
You wield a bone rapier.

change skill 100
You are now fighting at 100% of your skill level.

You exclaim to the short, burly man, in sihirish:
      "I am not left-handed!"

Sounds like people suppressing powerlevels on DBZ --- eh, nope.  As far as berserking goes, yeah I think it would be friggin' awesome.  A sole warrior command -- maybe boost the characters stats temporarily, while taking away from attack and defense.  And having a high stamina drain after it's faded.  It's be awesome awesome.  I'd so like go jihad my pc into the sea of eternal dust, just to play another warrior.

[Delirium]

There are already ways to fight like a berserker, in-game.

With the appropriate coded benefits and penalties as well.

Talk to your friendly local Kuraci.


Plus, muls ARE berserkers.  Oh yes they are.  That's one of their fatal flaws, really.

[Twilight]

There is, or at least was, berserk code in the game.  That said, I think you all are missing one of the major, major drawbacks of truly being berserk.

I had a human warrior, eight or nine years ago, walking along and all of a sudden:

You go berserk.  (or something like that)

Complete and utter mayhem ensued.  As in my character beating the snot out of a House NPC guard armed with weapons with his bare hands.

I don't wish the berserk code on anyone except muls.

[Agent_137]

Oh, well, if Muls actually -have- a -real- beserk code, then I don't want it for warriors. It's the domain of muls, and that's fine. I'll just play a mul eventually.

But yea, Delirium is right. I didn't think of those options when I was pondering beserking warriors, but it's a lovely solution I already have in my pocket.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Muls do have a beserk code. It can go into effect at a point when things seem to be out of your hands. It is very cool. It is very detrimental. It is very scary.

[Marauder Moe]

Beserk... code...?  :shock:

I want to play a mul.


As for this whole warrior/stamina debate... I think it's pretty silly and getting out of hand.  Staff thinks warriors are (mildly at least) overpowered, or that they could be overpowered when abused (spam-skills).  They implemented a change that makes them less powerful (something that has only a mild effect on non-spam-skill-using warriors).  Obviously, then, they're not going to add anything new to make warriors MORE powerful.  Stop asking for it.

[Yokunama]

Kudos, M. Moe.

As for this whole warrior/stamina debate... I think it's pretty silly and getting out of hand.  Staff thinks warriors are (mildly at least) overpowered, or that they could be overpowered when abused (spam-skills).  They implemented a change that makes them less powerful (something that has only a mild effect on non-spam-skill-using warriors).  Obviously, then, they're not going to add anything new to make warriors MORE powerful.  Stop asking for it.

I can only assume Raesanos is speaking for the majority of staff.

We do not think that warriors are too powerful and we are not making changes solely to weaken them. My intent when I was choosing the stamina penalty was to try to make it so that for the most part things aren't even that different. People who recklessly overuse their skills will be the only ones at a real disadvantage.

It may not be the traditional balance between classes, but we are trying to achieve a balance here. We want skills to be equally useful to people who want to misuse the code and people who play the way we expect. The benefit of adding some additional strategy to combat is also a factor, though admittedly that has less to do with balance.

[spawnloser]

Looking in Staff Announcements...is everyone happy that not JUST warriors are getting stamina drain now?

[grog]

Frankly I think it's cool, I love the Armageddon staff and trust that even if they were able to make mistakes, they will fix them.  

Color me a fanboy.

[Maybe42or54]

I think if you bash someone, they should lose some stamina.
They should lose stamina for picking a weapon up in combat.

Just my opinion.

[jmordetsky]

Looking in Staff Announcements...is everyone happy that not JUST warriors are getting stamina drain now?

I was never one to complain about it. I just want to be BESERK!!!!!! GAH!

Seriously, though I actually wont be happy until combat drains stamina on the general and you puny humans collapse in agony, clutching a side splitting cramp unable to fend off my Spice Addicted Desert Elf while you gasp for air you out of shape bastard. muhahahahaa.

yours truly

Joe (who in real life, has 5 mv points.)