The shadow attacks you while you mount your kank!

[Maybe42or54]

I've always thought it was a little weird that you are attacked when you pick up a weapon, but you aren't attacked when you mount a kank. You have to take your eyes off of your attacker(s), grab the reigns, and thenget to moving.

How can you not be attacked during all of that?

I have had many people fight me, then mount and flee without me getting another attack.

[Mudder]

Yep, I think you should get some sort of negative towards that. Because, it is to easy to just mount up and then ride off. I know you get a bad negative while fighting when you try to pick up a weapon...And that negative can mean the end of your life real quick too.

[Moofassa]

You could always roleplay some sort of disadvantage, instead of taking advantage of the code and being a twink and pulling a

mount
flee...


You could.. throw in a few emotes and wait a second or two while you mount...


emote turns for his mount in a fit of panic, scrambling for his reigns and pulling himself up, all the while leaving his back open to attack...

[Morgenes]

Would you guys prefer that mounting not be allowed while you're fighting someone, or you get a free hit?

[Mudder]

Would you guys prefer that mounting not be allowed while you're fighting someone, or you get a free hit?

Free hit, just like in combat when the person tries to pick up a weapon.

Editted to add: Because then you'll have people attacking just to make you flee and steal your mount. Guaranteed mount stealing.

[Seeker]

I would prefer a Riding skill check to permit it, first.  

THEN if the fleer is skilled enough to leap upon his beast in the middle of combat, a free hit from the assailant.

Seeker

[jhunter]

Free hit. No mounting at all is unrealistic and will cause issues. The major one I can think of is this:

think OOCly If I attack them they won't be able to remount to flee. And if I surprise them and they flee...


kill dude

dude flees

hitch kank

w
w
w
w
w
w
w
w
w
w


Perfect mount stealing.

Edit: And there is -already- a ride skill check to see if you can mount during combat.

[Maybe42or54]

Does it check the attackers offensive abilities?

I would prefer a free hit and stiffer penalties as the attacker is better.

[Tamarin]

Sure, let there be a free hit.

But also give people with high ride % the ability to negate that hit.  After all, mounting during combat is part of the ride skill, and so they should be able to do it without getting smoked automatically.

[Maybe42or54]

I agree to that, I've seen videos of things IRL where A guy will dismount, fight you for a little while, spank his horse and run with it a little ways before mounting it. With sword in hand.

[UnderSeven]

Mounted combat sucks enough as is last I checked, and since it's so not worth fighting mounted (unless the code has changed since my ranger which was recent)

Then I think what it should do is give you a penalty or be impossible to mount in combat UNLESS you are a ranger or have a high enough ride or charge.. or something calvarly related.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Free hit. I love rangers, and absolutely do not want to disadvantage them. But for goodness sake, if you get hit for free while picking up something, seriously, you should get hit while mounting.

[Armaddict]

Uhm...I actually don't think...this is that big a deal.

I think someone's just frustrated someone got away.

This free hit hasn't been in forever, and I really have never noticed a problem with it.  If you haven't bashed your target, subdued them, or in some way prevented them from reaching that mount, I see nothing stopping them from staying just out of reach long enough to get mounted and get sent off.

Rooms are big.  You can attack people instantly.  Just because you attacked them instantly, they're now automatically 'always in range'.  Sad but true.  Attack the mount.  Do things.

I don't like 'free hits'.  I think in some cases they're good, but in most cases...combat is more than rough enough.  Let's not make more advantages for the people who train combat.  They have advantages enough.

[Marauder Moe]

I assume "free hit" actually means "free attack" right?

[Armaddict]

For those with training, it's a free hit.

From what I've seen...'free attacks' even have an increased chance to connect?  I can't verify for sure, but it seems that way.

[Marauder Moe]

Yeah, but I'm not sure an actual automatic hit is a good idea in any circumstance.

[UnderSeven]

Well by definition: Free: No cost of any kind.  Hit: Two objects coming together.

Therefore by definition if it's a free hit it means you can't miss.

[Armaddict]

My point is, I'd much rather see people use what they're given to prevent escape rather than come to the board and say 'THIS SHOULDN'T HAPPEN' and have it actually work.

Warriors have subdue and bash, even if everyone decides bash is useless and refuses to use it (and thus never sees it for its uses).  Use them.  Have -friends-.  Use guard to try to keep the mount from leaving.  If they turn and go another way, hey...a mount is faster than you are, it got away.

Point is...I haven't had people escape from me like this too often.  If you notice, 'fleeing' also leaves your mount behind.  And if they mount up to try to flee with it...there is, already, the probability of them getting attacked while mounted and utterly -smashed-.

[Seeker]

Hrmm... "free hit" was not the right term.  A bonus attack, similar to the one when retrieving a weapon in combat, was what I was supporting.

If there is already a realistic Ride skill check for the flee-r to attempt mounting up, maybe a small realistic delay while he gets a handle on the reins if he succeeds would work just as well.

The issue, I think, is the speed with which a PC can <mount; flee self>, often before a single tick of combat occurs for his opponent.


Seeker

[X-D]

I don't agree.
Its not like the mount is in the middle of battle with you, unlike a dropped weapon.

The mount is back aways, so, consider it like running away 10 feet or so then mounting and running.

Against Free hit or anything, I think it is fine.

[palomar]

Or connect it do the flee skill. As some people mentioned, you usually don't have your mount close to you in a fight. Most people who are out there with a mount knows at least to scramble up on it, but it might be trickier to get there. And, there is already a penalty in place for when you fight mounted.

Code Select Expand

>flee mount
>You scramble towards a yellow kank and climb onto its back.

or

>You try to find an opening to reach your mount but fail.

[Maybe42or54]

I don't see, logically, how someonewould turn their back on the attacker, sprint to their kank, mount the giant bug, and get it moving before someone had a chance to hit them.
Then when you flee on a mount, they don't run, they continue to walk.
As it is now, I could run up and type "kill target." Then they can Get their mount from resting to standing, to them mounting the kank and then fleeing on the kank and get away before I can follow them.

[Armaddict]

I suppose all that time between blows in combat is them just standing around, eh?

I see it as you attack when you get the opportunity.  The space in between is maneuvering, and thus why 'kick' and 'bash' can be used at any time.  It's a maneuver.

I have no trouble imagining someone suddenly breaking away towards their mount, leaving someone the responsibility of catching up to them to get more swings.  As I said...the rooms are huge, yet you can attack instantly and make them right next your character.

It doesn't take much for an experienced rider to dash to their kank, mount (keep in mind kanks are -not- that tall, nor hard to get on from the looks of it), and get away.  An inexperienced rider trying such might have trouble getting the kank into motion fast enough to avoid those blows.

[Angela Christine]

Isn't there already a ride check?  I may be delusional, but I'm sure that I've failed to mount while fighting a few times, particularily with newbie characters that weren't very good riders.  The message was something like "The grey kank moves away"?  It made sense, if some blood-soaked maniac I barely knew was waving a sword and trying to jump on my back I'd move away too.  Sure, I was able to mount after two or three tries, but that delay could have been enough for a skilled attacker to take me out, especially since after mounting I would be at a coded disadvantage until I actually managed to  leave the room.  Fleeing while riding also seems to be a little more difficult than fleeing on foot, so there may be another ride check or other penalty there too.


Angela Christine

[Maybe42or54]

Well Armaddict, I think the code should take into account the fleeing persons parry, defense, riding skills, and the attackers offensive skills, etc, and then make bonuses and negatives apply. Instead of blanketing everyone as experienced riders.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Isn't there already a ride check?  I may be delusional, but I'm sure that I've failed to mount while fighting a few times, particularily with newbie characters that weren't very good riders.  The message was something like "The grey kank moves away"?  It made sense, if some blood-soaked maniac I barely knew was waving a sword and trying to jump on my back I'd move away too.  Sure, I was able to mount after two or three tries, but that delay could have been enough for a skilled attacker to take me out, especially since after mounting I would be at a coded disadvantage until I actually managed to  leave the room.  Fleeing while riding also seems to be a little more difficult than fleeing on foot, so there may be another ride check or other penalty there too.


Angela Christine

This is the way the code works, as far as I know as well.  Of course, I've never actually died because of it (even in the case of 7 day ranger versus bahamet) so perhaps what you all want is to make the penalties harsher?

[Yokunama]

Free hit. I love rangers, and absolutely do not want to disadvantage them. But for goodness sake, if you get hit for free while picking up something, seriously, you should get hit while mounting.

Rangers should be able to 'call' their beast over.


Like in the movies, where the loser calls (whistle) his horse, and the horse comes in to swoop the figher off his feet. Thus, we have our safe escape. ^_^

[Armaddict]

Instead of blanketing everyone as experienced riders.

It doesn't take that much experience to cause separation.  More skilled people in combat -do- already smack people around easier, if they try to mount, they are more easily smashed.

As noted, kanks are not that tall.  Nor are they hard to climb astride.  If you can make the kank move...as is shown through code already, they are faster than a man outside.  They're away.

I find it disconcerting that people want more and more free attacks for everything.

IF I GET YOU INTO COMBAT, YOU -MUST- FIGHT ME AND SUFFER FOR TRYING TO GET AWAY!  IF YOU GET AWAY, I MUST STILL HAVE SOMETHING TO GLOAT OVER BESIDES BEATING YOUR ASS!!!!!!!

[Synthesis]

I rarely find myself in agreement with Armaddict, but on this one, I concur.

The penalties surrounding mounted combat are plentiful and the consequences of failure harsh.  Further negative modifiers are completely unnecessary.

Also, certain fairly recent code changes make it very, very easy to raid in the wilderness nowadays, if you're good.  So if you fail...it's probably because you suck.

Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

[Yokunama]

IF I GET YOU INTO COMBAT, YOU -MUST- FIGHT ME AND SUFFER FOR TRYING TO GET AWAY!  IF YOU GET AWAY, I MUST STILL HAVE SOMETHING TO GLOAT OVER BESIDES BEATING YOUR ASS!!!!!!!

Agreed.

A lot of people tend to get bent out of shape when _suped-up-one-day_ ranger escapes their grasps on a beast. Don't you guys ever get any fun out of chasing people down? It actually gives you something to do.

If the people keep mounting beast and spaming into directions, I can see that as a problem. Theres nothing wrong with giving those raiders a piece of that, instead of insta fleeing like a jozhal.

[Grey Area]

Would this bonus attack occur before or after the target has climbed onto his mount? Because if it happens after

1. There's a vastly increased chance of hitting, because they'll suddenly be mounted and your not.

2. Most Zalanthans don't practice mounted combat, so they're probably gonna get thrown off and end up at an even greater disadvantage anyway.

3. Flee isn't garaunteed success anyway, and if it fails you've probably got another combat round with all the problems of points 1 and 2.

There's also the fact that, as people pointed out, there's already a check to see if you can mount while in combat... Unless you're good at ride, it could take several attempts, which adds up to a lot of bonus attacks.


These are just a few thoughts that occur.

[Maybe42or54]

Yokunama, there is no fun in chasing someone down, since a kank walking can outrun a kank running most of the time, from what I have seen, with their small headstart. Since, again, you can type "kill target" and they can get their mount their kank, get it from resting to standing, and flee before the lag from your command wears off. When it does wear off, it is already too late, since they have a two-three room headstart on you.
These are giant ants. Giant ants without saddles. It should be easier to mount other animals during combat.


Another idea came to me. Since we have watch, how hard would it be to have watch follow the watched?

watch Target
Target flees west.
To the west, target walks north.
You go west.
To the North, Target walks east.

[Maybe42or54]

Would this bonus attack occur before or after the target has climbed onto his mount? Because if it happens after

You are attacked as you try to mount the kank.
The giant ass whatchadiller pierces at you, but misses.
The giant ass whatchadiller pierces at you, but misses.
You mount the resting grey kank.

As when you try to pick up a disarmed weapon, you can time it so you pick it up right after they attack. So there could be a chance you get a lucky break and never get touched before mounting and wlaking your kank away.

There's also the fact that, as people pointed out, there's already a check to see if you can mount while in combat... Unless you're good at ride, it could take several attempts, which adds up to a lot of bonus attacks.

I have had a few characters that were involved in combat a lot, but I have never seen this. Do other people see when you fail trying to mount?

[jhunter]

The more I've thought about it, I don't think any change is necessary.

There's a ride check to get on the bug, a ride check to stay on it if another attack goes against you before you can even attempt to flee, and then, a sometimes difficult flee attempt while mounted.

It's fine like it is.

[jhunter]

I have had a few characters that were involved in combat a lot, but I have never seen this. Do other people see when you fail trying to mount?

If you haven't seen it at all then you're lucky. I've had several pcs lose their mounts because they couldn't get on top of them or stay on top of them during combat. It was either keep trying and die...or flee, lose the mount and live.

Pretty sure it does. I remember practicing mounted combat in some clans and I think I recall seeing others fail at trying to mount back up.

[Nao]

Yea it happens - it gives you a message that your mount moves away when you try to mount it.
It hardly happens with a skilled ranger anymore though, maybe that's why  you've never seen it.

[Maybe42or54]

I've only played a ranger once. They lived a whole 4 hours.

[FightClub]

I agree with the -given attack-  similar to picking up a weapon.  Those don't always land anyway.  And it makes sense, even as much as I love fleeing twink like through the wastes.

[Cenghiz]

I guess, 'mount' should have a delay.. Not only in combat.. always.
Make tent/roll tent should have a lag. Not for battle purposes, it.. just does not seem right..
When you do not have a lag, you often forget it's a time consuming task and must be emoted when there's time.

[jhunter]

Unless you're a complete clutz it takes no time at all to mount an animal. I ride in RL. I can get on the back of a horse in the blink of an eye.

[UnderSeven]

Unless you're a complete clutz it takes no time at all to mount an animal. I ride in RL. I can get on the back of a horse in the blink of an eye.

Yeah but in all my times fighting with friends, using nerf weapons, padded swords, or even hands, I'm ALWAYS looking for that fraction of a second when my opponent looks away to attack.  That's all it takes a glance.  

More than enough time for a free swing.

About delay in mounting there ARE skills in arm that the better you get at them the shorter the delay.  So!  Why not just make ride work that way with mounting?

[jhunter]

About delay in mounting there ARE skills in arm that the better you get at them the shorter the delay. So! Why not just make ride work that way with mounting?

Because the more I thought about it, the more I realized there are plenty of things against the person trying to mount during combat. Not to mention if they fail to flee on the first attempt you get attacks off against them mounted (with mounted penalties) anyway.

[Yokunama]

Since, again, you can type "kill target" and they can get their mount their kank, get it from resting to standing, and flee before the lag from your command wears off.

Because the more I thought about it, the more I realized there are plenty of things against the person trying to mount during combat. Not to mention if they fail to flee on the first attempt you get attacks off against them mounted (with mounted penalties) anyway.

There is more to raiding than entering the room, typing 'kill target', and chasing the victim several rooms. Try to play smart, work in groups, and find creative ways to keep people from hoping on their beast, and your kill count and spoils will start adding up, if done correctly.

[Armaddict]

Yeah.  If done correctly.

So why...are free attacks...needed?

That just makes it -easier- to be a raider, just a raider, not a smart one, and actually excel at it.

[Yokunama]

I'd love to see some people 'demand' the goods of others, before they begin their assult. It might help decrease some insta-fleeing, and create more roleplaying between the victim and the raider.

[Fragmented]

I haven't read more then the original post in this thread, so I may be kicking a dead kank but.. I think it's a horrible, horrible idea for anyone to get a free hit when you try and mount. For one.. non rangers/helfs will have a hard time mounting anyway. I think that you should just play smarter. Someone keeps mounting their kank and fleeing? Attack the kank. Guard an exit. Whatever. Play smarter. A mount in combat cannot flee to my knowledge, or if they can, it's very difficult. I give this idea two thumbs down. Sorry.

[Aldiel]

Would you guys prefer that mounting not be allowed while you're fighting someone, or you get a free hit?

Free hit, I like this idea.  If you want to make mounting during a fight harder that'd be cool too, but I think it's hard enough now.  Especially if your ride skill is taken into account when you try to mount a mount when fighting.  Go with the free hit.  It only makes sense.

[Armaddict]

It makes sense, but not much, to me.  For reasons explained above, as well as the motivation behind the idea.

I don't think this is a betterment of the game issue, or a realism issue, or any of that.  Plain, flat out, I think people don't like having others be able to escape easily, even when it makes -more- sense for them to be able to do so.

Just my take on it.  Unless more points are brought up to respond to...this...should be my last post on the issue, because otherwise I'll just keep repeating myself.

[Angela Christine]

I'd love to see some people 'demand' the goods of others, before they begin their assult. It might help decrease some insta-fleeing, and create more roleplaying between the victim and the raider.

This would be very cool.  OOCly I believe that most players would be much better sports about having their PC robbed than having their PC killed.  

If someone runs in and attacks me, with or without a prepared emote, of course I'm going to run away (I've even run away when I am clearly doing more damage than the attacker) because having some maniac run towards you with violent intent is the sort of thing I think a sensible person would try to avoid.  Unfortunately you can't see them "moving toward you" you only see them enter the room (presumably some distance away) and then they are suddenly right up close and poking you with their sharp stick.  Unfortunately, if you are trying to rob people and they always run away you get tired of that too and move to a "stab first and ask questions later" method.

Something I've tried to prepare a few times, but never actually had the opportunity to try in-game, is to have distraction loot ready.  A small pile of coin, an extra full water-skin, maybe some food and a few other things.  The idea is that when pursued by suspicious characters you start dropping the loot.  Not a crippling amount of loot to lose, but enough to distract most would-be raiders.  If I get to choose between stopping and picking up some free loot, or continuing to chase my target and risking my life to get an unknown amount of loot, I may decide to take the free loot and call it a day.  Potentially everybody wins.  The raider makes a profit with little effort and the victim loses some stuff but not all his stuff or his life.  Once again bribes save the day!


Angela Christine

[Maybe42or54]

Perhaps someone can explain this to me, raiding aside. How can someone, who is engaged in combat, has something in both of their hands, mount a resting kank, make it stand, and then flee in a blink of an eye?

[jhunter]

Perhaps someone can explain this to me, raiding aside. How can someone, who is engaged in combat, has something in both of their hands, mount a resting kank, make it stand, and then flee in a blink of an eye?

How can someone summon up the powers of the elements and bend them to their will? How can someone get into the minds of others?

Everything doesn't have to be 100% equal to RL.

Mounts that are trained to go from a sitting position to standing when mounted do so as they were taught, it doesn't necessarily take any extra effort from the rider. And the only person in Armageddon that would be able to do as you say above would be a ranger, who become the masters of riding and mounted combat. Non-rangers cannot do as you mentioned above.

[Maybe42or54]

Well, Jhunter. I didn't say there had to be a 100% match to RL. The game, however should be 100% match for itself.

Which is easier to do? Mount a kank and ride it away during combat, or pick up a weapon that someone forcefully knocked form your hands? I think it is easier to pick up a weapon, but the game tells me that mounting the kank is easier. What do you think?

[InsertCleverNameHere]

It might be easier to pick up a weapon, if the weapon only fell at your feet and didn't skitter 10 feet away, or seeing as you were busy trying not to get stabbed when you lost the weapon, there's no guarentee you actually saw where it ended up, which means you have to find it before you can grab it, yes?

I don't really think there should be a penalty for mounting during combat. Combat on a mount is quirky enough, as it's been discussed. Those lacking experience in mounted combat have a hard time getting back on while fighting, plus, if they do, chances are they're just as likely to get thrown off again, which is an even bigger penalty as that causes stun, damage, and I believe they have the lag from having to stand UP again before making another attempt to mount. All the while trying to avoid blows. :roll: *grin* I don't think it needs to be much harder than it is.

[Fragmented]

Getting hit while picking up a weapon signifies, to me at least, that the character is putting their attention on grabbing that weapon. It takes more attention to focus on picking up that (relatively small) sword then it does to leap onto the back of a huge beast, taking your eyes away from your opponent. The possibility of you not leaping the "right way" onto your mount is already taken into consideration, since if you suck at riding, your mount will move away from you while you're in combat, which can be deadly enough. If anything, I think that if a mount is resting, it shouldn't be able to move away. But I'm happy to deal with it and keep things like they are.

[Grey Area]

I can understand why people might want it for dealing with other PCs. My problem, though, is that it would also have to work for NPCs, which is a whole other issue - more than enough of my characters have already bought it trying to get themselves and their mount the fuck away from some horrible NPC beastie. It really does seem dangerous enough as it is.

Especially, now that I think of it, groups of horrible NPC beasties (which is what you're most likely gonna be running away from anyway). Picture, for example, Amos Runner - out on patrol with Sarge and the rest of the Byn. They get jumped by a gith, everyone dismounts and engages. Suddenly, three more gith show up and start wailing on Amos! He's not going to live long enough for Sarge to rescue him, he's gotta bug out right now! So he jumps for his kank, gets clobbered with an extra six gith bonus attacks, and drops dead of acute obsidian poisoning.

Could be a wee bit of overkill.


Of course, I could be wrong and it won't be nearly that bad. Maybe this can be tweaked enough to be workable. Just throwing some stuff out there.

[Yokunama]

I'd love to see some people 'demand' the goods of others, before they begin their assult. It might help decrease some insta-fleeing, and create more roleplaying between the victim and the raider.

This would be very cool.  OOCly I believe that most players would be much better sports about having their PC robbed than having their PC killed.  

If someone runs in and attacks me, with or without a prepared emote, of course I'm going to run away (I've even run away when I am clearly doing more damage than the attacker) because having some maniac run towards you with violent intent is the sort of thing I think a sensible person would try to avoid.  Unfortunately you can't see them "moving toward you" you only see them enter the room (presumably some distance away) and then they are suddenly right up close and poking you with their sharp stick.  Unfortunately, if you are trying to rob people and they always run away you get tired of that too and move to a "stab first and ask questions later" method.

Something I've tried to prepare a few times, but never actually had the opportunity to try in-game, is to have distraction loot ready.  A small pile of coin, an extra full water-skin, maybe some food and a few other things.  The idea is that when pursued by suspicious characters you start dropping the loot.  Not a crippling amount of loot to lose, but enough to distract most would-be raiders.  If I get to choose between stopping and picking up some free loot, or continuing to chase my target and risking my life to get an unknown amount of loot, I may decide to take the free loot and call it a day.  Potentially everybody wins.  The raider makes a profit with little effort and the victim loses some stuff but not all his stuff or his life.  Once again bribes save the day!


Angela Christine

OOCly, I wouldn't mind stripping my character down to nothing, if someone did that. It'd make raiding a lot of fun for both parties.

[Maybe42or54]

Of course, I could be wrong and it won't be nearly that bad. Maybe this can be tweaked enough to be workable. Just throwing some stuff out there.

If you are in that bad kind of way, just flee? There are more then three of you, so you can go back?

[Nao]

OOCly, I wouldn't mind stripping my character down to nothing, if someone did that. It'd make raiding a lot of fun for both parties.

err... Am I misunderstanding something here or did raiding usually involve attacking first before even demanding what you want..? Cause that would be fucked up.
But maybe that would just solve a lot of problems with raiding if they are given the chance to just hand over that fancy cloak and their weapons to that delf before being allowed to leave..?

You can rob them again next time they come by

[Yokunama]

Well, Jhunter. I didn't say there had to be a 100% match to RL. The game, however should be 100% match for itself.

Which is easier to do? Mount a kank and ride it away during combat, or pick up a weapon that someone forcefully knocked form your hands? I think it is easier to pick up a weapon, but the game tells me that mounting the kank is easier. What do you think?

Just play smarter next time, Maybe42or54.

Some animals are difficult to handle and will attempt to throw you off their backs immediately.

Note:
  You may omit <animal> and just type "mount" by itself if you have a
mount already hitched to you.  This will attempt to have you mount the
hitched animal.  However, the same conditions still apply as to whether
you are successful or not.

  Low skill levels will result in being thrown from your mount during combat and being injured in the process. It is possible to be knocked unconscious by being thrown from one's mount (in which case, one will
then find oneself at the tender mercies of any hostile character in the
vicinity).

Bear in mind that fighting while mounted can be extremely risky, since characters are much easier to hit, and generally sustain worse wounds, due to mounts being less maneuverable than a character on foot.

There are already penalties that allows your chracter suffer from when trying to mount.

[Maybe42or54]

Off the topic of raiding.

An animal will only throw you from their back if you are swung at while being mounted. You can mount a resting animal and flee between rounds of combat. That is unrealistic to me. It is also unrealistic that You can continue to watch the person trying to kill you -while- mounting a big ant. It is unrealistic that you can mount a resting animal and get it to its feet, while you are being attacked, then get it to running speed without getting swung at once. In my opinion.

[jhunter]

Well, Jhunter. I didn't say there had to be a 100% match to RL. The game, however should be 100% match for itself.

Which is easier to do? Mount a kank and ride it away during combat, or pick up a weapon that someone forcefully knocked form your hands? I think it is easier to pick up a weapon, but the game tells me that mounting the kank is easier. What do you think?

Picking up the weapon. The -game- says that is easier than mounting an animal during combat as well. You can -not- fail at picking up the fallen weapon. You can fail at mounting a beast during combat. You can fail at fleeing on the beast during combat.

[Maybe42or54]

I disagree Jhunter. I've never seen people fail at mounting a resting kank. Even when they wield two weapons. You can send weapons flying away when you disarm them. You can't make a kank run away by attacking it. Its owner can still mount it and run away.

[jhunter]

I disagree Jhunter. I've never seen people fail at mounting a resting kank. Even when they wield two weapons. You can send weapons flying away when you disarm them. You can't make a kank run away by attacking it. Its owner can still mount it and run away.

You can disagree all you want. That doesn't change that -fact- that it's coded in the game. I've seen it -many- times. I've had failures while attempting to mount a beast during combat -many- times.

Those are the -facts-.

Edit: Something just occured to me. Are you speaking specifically about mounting "resting" animals? If so that makes perfect sense. If they are in a resting position then they can't really "move away" from you when you try and mount them. It still doesn't change that they might throw you immediately or that you might fail to flee when you make the attempt.

[Maybe42or54]

You have had your kank move away when it was resting?

[jhunter]

You have had your kank move away when it was resting?

See above edit. Heh, posted at the same time I was making the change.

[Maybe42or54]

It does change it. Since, again, you can mount a resting kank and flee between rounds of combat. If you aren't attacked, you can't be thrown. And flee is one of the easiest things to do.

So either, there should be a delay between mounting and leaving the room, or there should be a bonus round of combat somewhere in there.

[jhunter]

It does change it. Since, again, you can mount a resting kank and flee between rounds of combat. If you aren't attacked, you can't be thrown. And flee is one of the easiest things to do.

So either, there should be a delay between mounting and leaving the room, or there should be a bonus round of combat somewhere in there.

No it doesn't change it. The mount still has to stand first. While standing they can be immediately thrown. And -any- flee attempt while mounted can fail. It only changes -one- small part of the process and it changes it in a realistic way.

I don't know what else to tell you. There are way more negatives against someone trying to escape on their mount than you -believe- there to be.


No, flee isn't always one of the easiest things to do. I've lost pcs because of failed flee attempts. There are many situation dependant factors that go into a flee attempt.

[Maybe42or54]

Has anyone been thrown from their mount during combat, just by mounting it from a rest to a stand?

You mount a grey kank.
A grey kank stops resting and stands.
A grey kank throws you from its back!

Anyone?

[Yokunama]

It does change it. Since, again, you can mount a resting kank and flee between rounds of combat. If you aren't attacked, you can't be thrown. And flee is one of the easiest things to do.

At times, you can be thrown from your beast immediately after you mount it.

You can not flee with a 100% chance of success. Find ways to prevent your victim from fleeing.

[jhunter]

Has anyone been thrown from their mount during combat, just by mounting it from a rest to a stand?

You mount a grey kank.
A grey kank stops resting and stands.
A grey kank throws you from its back!

Anyone?

Yes, -immediately- after mounting it.

[Mudder]

Has anyone been thrown from their mount during combat, just by mounting it from a rest to a stand?

You mount a grey kank.
A grey kank stops resting and stands.
A grey kank throws you from its back!

Anyone?

Yep, had it happen to me before.

[Angela Christine]

OOCly, I wouldn't mind stripping my character down to nothing, if someone did that. It'd make raiding a lot of fun for both parties.

err... Am I misunderstanding something here or did raiding usually involve attacking first before even demanding what you want..? Cause that would be fucked up.
But maybe that would just solve a lot of problems with raiding if they are given the chance to just hand over that fancy cloak and their weapons to that delf before being allowed to leave..?

You can rob them again next time they come by

Good attitude.

I'm not sure I'd be happy about handing over my weapons.  How do I know that as soon as I drop my weapons you won't attack me, since I will now be suffering from the unarmed penalties it will be much easier to kill me.  I did once hand over my weapons, my pack, my kank, my cloak, and even my boots, but I was significantly outnumbered and inside a specific groups territory (where they presumably have a lot of back up available) because I had accidentally walked off a cliff and fell into an area where all the more conventional entrances were guarded.  They had me dead to rights.  (This character was never able to recover from the financial loss, and eventually died of dehydration because I couldn't think of any non-dehydrating ways to make money with no kank, no weapons, no tools, and no boots.)

If the numbers are nearly equal (for example I am alone and there are just one or two of them) I'll be willing to hand over something to avoid a fight, but I'm not going to hand over everything.  I'll be particularly reluctant to hand over things that make it unlikely that I will be able to make it back to town alive.  I'd give them all my money, all the trade goods I have, and if I keep a mount I'll even give them all the food and water I have on me (if they want all my mounts I'll may need to keep some of that food and water, depending on how far from civilization I am and if I know of any water, fruits or roots available in the immediate region) .  Probably any pieces of armor or clothing that they take a particular liking to, but not all of my weapons.  When you hand over all your weapons you are putting yourself entirely at their mercy, you raise their chance of being able to kill you to nearly 100%, and even if they don't kill you some aggressive beastie probably will.

If the numbers are seriously in their favor, then I'll be much more accommodating.  If my band of 3-4 human hunters, traders or mercenaries is being held up by an organized band of 6-10 raiders and those raiders are really bad ass looking and include a couple of muls and half-giants, then I will seriously consider giving them everything and walking home in my underwear.  Their chance of killing someone in my group is already close to 100%, and their chance of killing everyone in my group is pretty darn good too.  Some of us might be able to escape, but it is unlikely that all of us could escape.  So throwing yourself on their mercy and hoping they leave you a loincloth and a toothpick is not such a bad deal.

Basically my rule of thumb is that the raiders need at least one raider for each target, plus one raider for each exit in the room in which the raid occurs to completely dominate the situation.  If there are 2 targets and 2 exits, there need to be at least 4 raiders to achieve pwnage.  If there is 1 target and 5 exits there need to be 6 raiders.  If there is 1 target and 1 exit than just 2 raiders are needed.  These are soft numbers, a mul or half-giant that looks mean might count as  1 1/2 - 2 people each.  A band that has built up a particularily strong reputation (like the blackmoon of olde) or are especially mean looking might count as 1 or 2 extra guys just on reputation.  A mage, depending on skill and general scarryness could count as 1-10 people.  If the raiders have the numbers to achieve complete domination then they get whatever they want, because they can hurt you more than you can hurt them.  If the raiders can't achieve complete domination then there is wiggle room.


Like everything else in Zalanthas, I think there is room for negotiation even during a raid or robbery.  The robber opens the negotiations with some version of "I'm here, and I'm willing to hurt you to get your stuff" the robee counters with "I am willing to hand over X without causing any trouble to avoid a fight."  This could work because in the end, the raider really doesn't want a fight either.  He wants something for nothing, he doesn't want to get hurt.

Another scenario could involve paying the raiders off or turning it into a trade situation, so that no crime is committed.  "It seems my caravan guards are inadequate for travel through this dangerous region, I am willing to pay you fine fellows 500 sid to escort me to within 10 leagues of Luir's outpost".  Or "that is a truly remarkable arrow you have there, did you make it yourself?  I'll give you a full water-skin or 50 sid for each one you can sell me."  In effect you are buying safe passage through the territory they control.  There is no reason to go to the law or seek vengeance against the raiders, because paying bribes is understood to be part of the cost of doing business in Zalanthas.  You can pay thousands of sid to be escorted by a big enough party of guards that most raider bands will leave you alone, or you can hold that money in reserve and pay it to the raider bands themselves, if they happen to intercept you on this trip -- if they don't you've saved some money, and if they do you are no worse off than you would have been with the massive troop of guards.  I can see a band of thugs setting up something like a toll bridge, but without the bridge, "This here is our dune, you want to pass our dune you pay us 300 sid, in coins or in goods,  or there's gonna be trouble."  And if they pay the toll the raiders are friendly, wish them good journey, and even warn them about that nasty tembo that was spotted 7 or 8 leagues up the road.


You can't negotiate with gith or halflings, besides the language barrier there is the problem that they consider your tasty flesh to be part of the potential loot.  It is hard to negotiate with people who want to eat you.  "OK, you can have the water cask, all the food, and the half-elf if you let the rest of us go without a fight," just doesn't sound right.     But the races that PCs play tend to be more pragmatic.


Angela Christine

[jhunter]

Yeah, the only times it has happened to me where they tried to rp it out first, they wanted me to strip off everything but my clothes. Then after I did, they killed me anyway.  :roll:

That's kinda the way I see it: "Hand over your trade goods...and your 'sids. Then be on your way."

Not: "Drop your weapons....now -STRIP-!"

*waits around, glancing about nervously while you take off all your belongings and drop them into a pile*

*waits longer*

*waits even longer*

*finally you get naked*

*takes the time to gather up all your stuff*

Ridiculous.  :roll:

[Mudder]

Yeah, the only times it has happened to me where they tried to rp it out first, they wanted me to strip off everything but my clothes. Then after I did, they killed me anyway.  :roll:

That's kinda the way I see it: "Hand over your trade goods...and your 'sids. Then be on your way."

Not: "Drop your weapons....now -STRIP-!"

*waits around, glancing about nervously while you take off all your belongings and drop them into a pile*

*waits longer*

*waits even longer*

*finally you get naked*

*takes the time to gather up all your stuff*

Ridiculous.  :roll:

Never had that happen yet. But, that's when you pull a dagger out of your ass then stab them in the head while they are taking their time picking up your gear. It would be cool if they just robbed you then let you go. That would lead to more interesting RP.

[jhunter]

Yeah, and when their intent is to rob you completely naked, it really leaves you with only two choices...

...let them, and die to nature...

... or fight back and maybe get away or die right then.

[John]

Yeah, and when their intent is to rob you completely naked, it really leaves you with only two choices...

...let them, and die to nature...

... or fight back and maybe get away or die right then.

A smart raider covers his whole body in non-descript clothes that are fairly common (perhaps when in town he wears silks or something ) and doesn't raid his victims until they can't make a living (10 small raids on one person is more profitable then 1 large raid on one person).

Unfortunately no matter how much you disguise yourself, people can always just go "look raider, or hey bob! Why're you doing this to me?" or "look raider think ah ha! It's bob. I'll tell the Templar in town." Twinkish victims lead to murdering raiders.

[InsertCleverNameHere]

Um. Not that I'm trying to be the GDB topic police or anything, but the origional post was about mounting kanks and penalties, not raiding..  :roll: Maybe out of politeness, anyone who wants to continue the raider topic (as it seems a good one) should pick up a dead raiding thread, or start a new one..? It really sucks for the person who started the topic, to have it so firmly derailed it's hard to put back on track...  :wink:

[Majikal]

SO.. erhm... how about mounting them kanks and stuff?  :wink:

emote underails this biatch