Stats and character creation

[Vanth]

Just for clarity, the stat ordering would occur before the modifiers for age, race, size, and guild are applied, right?

So you could use stat ordering either in the same order that you think the modifiers push you anyway, to try to get extreme stats.  Or you could use the stat ordering in the reverse order that you think the modifiers apply to try to get well-rounded, average stats.  You could pick strength as your half-giants primary to try to get a super-strong guy, or pick strength as his lowest stat and wisdom as his highest stat to try to get more balanced stats.


Angela Christine

Correct.

[flurry]

I'm happy to hear about the possible new system to give a little more control over stats.  

One added benefit (I hope) is that people might be more inclined to tie stats in with their roleplay.  I know there's been a few threads about that before.  For instance, if you have below average wisdom, how should you roleplay that?   I seem to remember some people feeling like they were going to stick to the concept regardless of the stats, even if it's contradictory to the stats.  I can sympathize with that -- but stats are supposed to be characteristics of your PC, no?  So it's kind of weird to look at them as separate from roleplay, isn't it?  

I think with more player control over stats during character creation, people will feel more like their stats are something they had some say in, and something integral to the character concept -- and so something that fits the roleplay of that concept better.

There was a great thread I saw over on the SoI board a couple months ago where an Immortal over there broke down each stat into the different levels, and said how he or she interpreted that level for that stat (e.g. if you have average strength for a human, you're capable of ... Whereas if you have AI strength, you're capable of ....)   I thought it was really neat.    Something like that would be cool to see here, I think, especially given an added measure of control over stats.

Anyway, thumbs up for the possible changes on the horizon.

[Aldiel]

Man, being able to customize your skills.  That sounds wicked.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Man, being able to customize your skills.  That sounds wicked.

Stats, stats. The skills ... well, that's one of those pipe dreams, man, pipe dreams ... although, actually, I just got a great idea...

[Cale_Knight]

I'm totally looking forward to this.

[Tamarin]

Will characters created prior to this change get the opportunity to reorder their stats?

[jhunter]

No offense intended to anyone...



BOO!!!


:cry:

[Cale_Knight]

Will characters created prior to this change get the opportunity to reorder their stats?

*twitch*

I know this isn't going to happen, but man. If I could flip just two stats on my current character...

Man.

[Maybe42or54]

If I had things that I could call stats. I politely refer to them as "damn it" every time I see those things.

[jstorrie]

I don't think I'll be able to resist the temptation to have the same stat ordering on every single character. I already have an idea of what I think is 'best' in concrete game terms and with the exception of disabled characters I'm not sure why I wouldn't go for it.

[Maybe42or54]

I love endurance.

[Tlaloc]

Will characters created prior to this change get the opportunity to reorder their stats?

Though this is just a guess at this time, and certainly not anything 100%, my guess will be 'no', and characters created prior to this change will just have to deal, and slowly die off.

[Agent_137]

boo stat ordering and boo breaking years of saying "no stat ordering."

Way to let all the twinks have exactly what they want. All the experienced vets know not to include obvious stats in descriptions, and if they -have- to have a stat for a concept (should be rare, make a character not a body), then they can deal with the mud account.

New code is good, new code that radically changes the way the game is played is dangerous.

[jhunter]

boo stat ordering and boo breaking years of saying "no stat ordering."

Way to let all the twinks have exactly what they want. All the experienced vets know not to include obvious stats in descriptions, and if they -have- to have a stat for a concept (should be rare, make a character not a body), then they can deal with the mud account.

New code is good, new code that radically changes the way the game is played is dangerous.

[Dakurus]

I seriously doubt that this is going to change the way the game is played. The stat rolls are the same, and you can still get the full range of stats. What stats do affect is fairly well spread, so if you get low rolls, no matter what stat you assign it to, you will suffer to some degree. Do I think with regards to some classes that we'll see similar stat ordering choices, in some cases yes, others no. It's amazing how many differing opinions players have about which stat they'd prefer and what they do. However, even with similar ordering, we'll still see different stats, depending on the rolls.

I'll just reiterate one of Halaster's points.

Three, while stats play a role, they're not quite as important as you all think they are. Or another way to put it - they each have their advantages that are all important. You may think endurance is the least important and so organize it to the lowest - well, we all know it affects how many hps, stun you have - so do you really want that to be your lowest? I won't get into the details of how each stat affects things, because you shouldn't know, and it doesn't matter as much as you think. I mean, if a mekillot is eating you, your high str don't mean jack. If five gith are wailing you from all directions, who cares if you're really really smart. Get my point? High-stat people die just as quickly and brutally as low-stat people. Your stats won't save you.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

To all the no-stat-ordering-proponents:

If you were playing a game of D&D, would you tell the GM to just assign your stats randomly?

Please stop opposing game changes that offer more customization. We have staff that are geared towards keeping this game free of twinks and of twinkish code. Have faith that they will evaluate this new change and deal with it accordingly.

If it is not abusable, it is a positive change.

[jhunter]

To all the no-stat-ordering-proponents:

If you were playing a game of D&D, would you tell the GM to just assign your stats randomly?

Please stop opposing game changes that offer more customization. We have staff that are geared towards keeping this game free of twinks and of twinkish code. Have faith that they will evaluate this new change and deal with it accordingly.

If it is not abusable, it is a positive change.

I simply disagree that this isn't abusable. I think it is. And nothing will ever change my mind about it. I'm entitled to believe as I do just as you are entitled to believe as you do.

I'm not going to stop opposing it just because you want it in 7DV, that's absurd to even say that. It's one step closer to putting more focus on stats instead of the -character-.


We may as well do away with racial differences in stats because the -majority- of people are going to use stat ordering to get around the racial negatives, or lessen them. No argument from -anyone- is going to convince me otherwise.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

You still didn't answer the question about D&D.

Still, ok. Oppose it. Fine.

I remember a long time ago, when we added some new sub-guilds, that folks complained that this seemed twinkable and that we should make do with what we had. Nobody says that now, or at least nobody that I've seen.

I once opposed change. I loved the old GBD and was irrate when I saw this new one. I, however, had to change my mind as I grew used to it. I now love this new GBD and wouldn't trade it in.

Maybe you're right. Hopefully you're not.

[jhunter]

You still didn't answer the question about D&D.

Still, ok. Oppose it. Fine.

I remember a long time ago, when we added some new sub-guilds, that folks complained that this seemed twinkable and that we should make do with what we had. Nobody says that now, or at least nobody that I've seen.

I once opposed change. I loved the old GBD and was irrate when I saw this new one. I, however, had to change my mind as I grew used to it. I now love this new GBD and wouldn't trade it in.

Maybe you're right. Hopefully you're not.

No, I don't care about stat ordering in D&D...because -that's- where I hackandslash.
I come to Arm to roleplay and not have to order my own stats optimally to keep the coded playing field level.
Now, I will have -no- choice if I want to be successful in comparision to others as far as the code is concerned.

Unless someone rolls all of their stats completely horrible...goodbye to the weak warriors and to rangers that use anything but the best of bows.

Goodbye to the weak combat based elves...our new elves (that are combat based are going to average around the strength of your average human) all because of stat ordering.

Hgs? Wow, they used to be kept in check by low agi and wis...but now...that can be lessened a bit with stat ordering. Or shit...if you wanted to make them kill other pcs in -one- hit instead of two...choose strength.

Stinks of powergaming.

[Intrepid]

Actually, some of the best D&D games I've played were those where we
rolled the stats in order and decided from there which classes were
allowable.  That made those more unusual classes like bards and paladins
special and rare.  It made a natural "18" a special and freakish thing,
rather than a stat people expected.

I understand why the imms are doing this, and feel bad that they feel they
have to do it now to keep people from making pc after pc until they have
their "leet uber fighter".  If it had been a change of heart based on
something other than twinks making existence difficult for them, I would
still have an objection to ordering stats--though perhaps not as strenuous
of one.

I still like the random rolls myself, and see no valid reasons to change
them other than giving the imms a much-deserved break from twinks.

[Maybe42or54]

Jhunter brings up a valid counter though. It is more twinkable than the way we have it now, simply because you can mess with it.

If a human wants to be smarter and faster, then alright. They'll be smarter, faster, and weaker.
If an elf wants to be stronger and faster, they'll be stronger, faster, more dumb.
If a half giant wants to be smarter, they'll be smarter.
If a human wants to be stronger, they'll be stronger.
If a merchant wants to be smarter and stringer.

All of those things can be trained IRL. Wouldn't you want to, to make your job easier? What is wrong with a merchant being smarter than a warrior? They are merchants.

Sometimes, I want my Pc to be strong. Sometimes, I want my Pc to be fast. Sometimes, I want my pc to be smarter. And then sometimes, I don't give a damn.

Which is why I want both systems! So sometimes I can list them. Other times, I can just go with it.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Heh.

You do realize that stat ordering will simply put that astounding AI roll in your agility where you want it, instead of in your Wisdom, where the code decided it should fall, right?

I think you're just a tad paranoid.

But, best of luck.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

We're keeping both systems, if I am to understand correctly.

[Maybe42or54]

Now, I just thought of it. I would also like a combination of the two. For the times that I want a strong pc, but don't know about the rest. I'll let the other three be random, but strength will get the best one.

[Marauder Moe]

If you were playing a game of D&D, would you tell the GM to just assign your stats randomly?

Actually I did that once.  Random race and class too.  It turned out to be one of the most fun and the best-RPed campaign of D&D I've ever played.  (I ended up with a half-orc bard, in case anyone is interested)