subguilds?

[Anonymous]

I guess this is a two part question -
1) What would you guys (everyone) think about a subguild "actor" that gives you the ability to immitate accents, impersonate people effectively, and the like?  Too limited?  Too powerful?

2) If you were captured and forced into slavery, do you think it would be reasonable to change your subguild?  Perhaps you were forced to become a dancer, for example (acrobat), or a house servant...

[Marauder Moe]

1) Eh, I don't think it's a great idea.  You might as well just call it "super-spy".  I'd much rather just see, if it's not done so already, linguists, con artists, and bards have a little boost to learning new accents.

2) No, I don't think that would be neccesary.  Dancing isn't a coded skill, neither is wine-pouring or shoe-shining.

[Werdna]

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but couldn't this just be roleplayed out?

Say Player A, a slummer thief, wants to pose as a Noble to gain entry into the Royal Ball to see his birth father who happens to be a highly placed Councilor. He would steal or buy the clothing of a Noble, and observe other young Nobles chatting amongst themselves at a Tavern or whatever. After a little practicing he goes to the Royal Ball in his stolen/bought Noble clothing, and with some clever emotes and speech manages to 'fool' the guards and gain entry. The guards may know OOCly that this is just a slummer thief, but because he did so well roleplaying they allow him entry into the Ball, roleplaying that they were 'fooled' by his disguise.


I know my example has nothing to do with the gameworld, but you get the idea.

[Edited to clear up some repetition]

[Anonymous]

The spy idea is really more what I was hitting on.  It's very hard not to get killed outright if you have the wrong "accent" in some places.  But yes, the impersonation set could mostly be role played (or there are other coded ways to deal with this), so I guess that was a bad example.  linguist wouldn't be bad - but picking up an accent shouldn't be as difficult as learning a new language.

At any rate, yeah.  Ok. Thanks for the feedback =)

[Hymwen]

impersonate people effectively

I don't see how you can codedly impersonate other people... you want to be able to change your sdesc to theirs or something?

[Ritley]

Well, I think there should be a commoner subguild, and a assassin subguild. That's it really.

[Hymwen]

Commoner subguild is nice, but assassin is already a main guild.

[Ritley]

Commoner subguild is nice, but assassin is already a main guild.

I know, but... wouldn't it be cool for a assassin could start out with a bit of a backstab, throw.. e.t.c, to make thing's a bit easier? needn't be high.

[Marauder Moe]

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but couldn't this just be roleplayed out?

Say Player A, a slummer thief, wants to pose as a Noble to gain entry into the Royal Ball to see his birth father who happens to be a highly placed Councilor. He would steal or buy the clothing of a Noble, and observe other young Nobles chatting amongst themselves at a Tavern or whatever. After a little practicing he goes to the Royal Ball in his stolen/bought Noble clothing, and with some clever emotes and speech manages to 'fool' the guards and gain entry. The guards may know OOCly that this is just a slummer thief, but because he did so well roleplaying they allow him entry into the Ball, roleplaying that they were 'fooled' by his disguise.


I know my example has nothing to do with the gameworld, but you get the idea.

[Edited to clear up some repetition]

The  problem is that Armageddon has coded accent-tags applied to player speach.  So, if Player A is from Allanak's Labyrinth (the really scummy and lawless section of the city), then they'll have a coded accent reflecting that.  Recent game additions, however, have made it so that, with enough time, you could learn to immitate a regular Allanaki accent  by spending time listening to people, as you said.  I think the original poster was asking about a subguild that would more or less automatically let you immitate any accent without spending a lot of time in-game learning it.  I don't believe that's a good idea.

Another major problem is that part of a noble's clothing is their metal signet ring.  Any thief who could get ahold of one of those probably has far better things to do with it than sneak into a party.   :wink:

If your scummy thief managed to get a ring, clothes, and a proper accent, though, there is indeed a decent chance he might be able to scam his way into the ball.

[Anonymous]

I've just noted that there's not as much travel between the cities as there used to be, and I was trying to come up with a concept that would be playable to fix that problem.

But the more I thought about it, the more problems I had with the accent issue.

I feel like, if I showed up in Tuluk with a southern accent, I'd get killed immediately or something.

Whereas, if I showed up in Allanak with a northern accent, I'd be equally SOL.

So, while it's a nice flavor to the game, it's really a hamper to trying to live "between" the cities.

[Xygax]

The core assumption that travel between the cities SHOULD be more frequent may be a flawed one.  The two cities are on the verge of warfare with one another almost perpetually, it isn't exactly realistic that there should be an active tourism industry flowing between them.  Limited merchantile travel, espionage, and a very short list of other activities might make sense, but I don't think we should be looking for game mechanics that -encourage- it.

-- X

ps - If you're worried about your accent, don't talk to people.

[Delirium]

So, while it's a nice flavor to the game, it's really a hamper to trying to live "between" the cities.

Go to Luir's. That's the melting pot of the gameworld.

[amoeba]

Go to Luir's. That's the melting pot of the gameworld.

Bah.. Luirs is a suburb of Tuluk.

[Anonymous]

The core assumption that travel between the cities SHOULD be more frequent may be a flawed one.  The two cities are on the verge of warfare with one another almost perpetually, it isn't exactly realistic that there should be an active tourism industry flowing between them.  Limited merchantile travel, espionage, and a very short list of other activities might make sense, but I don't think we should be looking for game mechanics that -encourage- it.

-- X

ps - If you're worried about your accent, don't talk to people.

Of course they're on the verge of warfare with one another.  That's the whole point =)  But yes, espionage was on the mind - as well as slave trade.  

I think I've always kind of had issue with the way slaves have been used in game.  Again - I don't know how it's going now.  I'm making a character with the hope to find out.  But, when I last played, people either ended up getting locked in a house and being bored, or getting locked in a pit and being bored.   Then the thread about how do newbies get integrated into the game when you can't realistically "poof" ply your trade with the beginning skill levels (which is fine), and the answer was to get recruited in a clan.

I thought about taking involuntary slaves, making slaves more interesting, and how to do that, but the first thing I'd do with an involuntary slave is take them from The Other citystate (whichever that might be).  And not having a neutral accent (or the ability to switch between the two) makes it difficult to deal with the powers that be, because both sides think you're a spy - when you really might just be an enterprising businessman out to make a little cash and help out a slaving noblehouse get some fodder from the enemies.

[LoD]

2) If you were captured and forced into slavery, do you think it would be reasonable to change your subguild?  Perhaps you were forced to become a dancer, for example (acrobat), or a house servant...

It might be reasonable in some circumstances, such as being a slave for a longer period of time than you were free.  For example, let's say you were a warrior/hunter for 20 years with a desert tribe before being captured by slavers of House Borsail.  Then you spent the next 25 years in servitude to Lord Fancypants going from Caged Pet to Chained Pet to Guarded Pet to Fool to Dancing Fool then perhaps you could request a change from "hunter" to "acrobat" because of the length of time and extreme change of environment.

Subguilds exist to provide flexibility and variety when fleshing out the background of your character.  It is important to remember that the skills you've chosen have been learned over the past 20+ years of your life, and it would take a good deal of time for them to be unlearned and replaced by another set of skills.

Your guild/subguild choice should provide everything you need for the early, middle and late part of your PC's life.  There should be little to no focus on attaining, switching or learning additional skills that aren't already allowed (i.e. ride, pilot, language).  If you strongly feel that a situation warrants you obtain a skill not granted by your guild/subguild, then you can always send the request into the MUD account along with your reasoning, RP logs, etc...

I know, but... wouldn't it be cool for a assassin could start out with a bit of a backstab, throw.. e.t.c, to make thing's a bit easier? needn't be high.

Certain skills require too much of a commitment to be represented by a "subguild".  Each class has a combination of skills that are not accessible to others because it would create a balance issue, regardless of the skill percentage.  Having a warrior cast fireballs, a rukkian with backstab, a whiran picking locks, or a merchant disarming people just isn't likely to happen because they would blur the guild choices too closely together.

There is an assumed understanding that some skills require a great deal of time, attention and practice to acquire and that is reflected by the choice of guild.  Other skills are considered to be more universal (i.e. sneak, listen, haggle, steal, crafting, subdue) and easier to attribute to some lesser amount of time spent in your life picking them up (dodging the 'naki soldiers, stealing fruit to eat, arguing over the price of a scavenged helmet, wrestling with street kids growing up).

That is why you won't see certain skills ever made available to anyone other than the main guild for which the skill was intended.

-LoD

[Anonymous]

Right - no, I get it.  Mostly thinking out loud on it.

You're right on the "ic years of rp" thing to learn it and have it changed.

[Cenghiz]

Backstab+throw? Would you like fries with that?
Subguilds do only consist of somewhat weaker skills. They are never given strong main guild skills.