Proposed change to movement

[Morgenes]

DISCLAIMER - This post does not mean that this will ever be coded in the game, I'm just getting a feeler for what you guys think of the idea -DISCLAIMER

So I was thinking, what if when you typed 'north' it started you moving north, and it would keep moving north until you couldn't anymore or you changed direction or typed 'stop'.  We already allow you to do other things while typing, so this would make it easier, as you don't have to think about typing another 'n' while heading up the road.

An alternative would be to make this type of movement another command altogether, like 'head north', so that those of you who wanted to keep typing n;n;n;n;n;n;n;n;n;n;n;n;n;n; could, and those that just wanted to type head n; stop could.

I suppose I like the second idea (adding the 'head' command) so that if you're just browsing or whatever you can use the old commands, but if you're on a journey, you can use 'head'.

The potential issues I see are what happens when you get dissoriented in a storm and may end up not going the way you intended.  Should you keep walking or should it stop you?

What do you guys think?

[mansa]

I like head.

I'd use head.

It should definitely be a 'head' command, and not automatic head.

You should stop the head command when you are dizzy and disoriented and tired.

...

Perhaps this can be added to be default to Pilot and command to walk?

[Morgenes]

If we ever get mount-based wagon travel again, it could make it interesting if we allow pilot to work like head.  Especially if for mounts we made it where they had to slow down depending on how fast you had them going.  For example:

> pilot north
Outside the 20 kank drawn wagon moves north.

> pilot run
Outside the 20 kank drawn wagon speeds up to a run.

>
Outside you see Another Stretch of the North Road

>
Outside you see Another Stretch of the North Road near the edge of the Shield Wall

> stop
You signal the mounts to stop.

>
Outside you see the Edge of the Shield Wall
Outside the 20 kank draw wagon slows down to a walk.

> think oh shit

[Marauder Moe]

Seems the downside is people or groups are going to get in trouble because they'll lag or drop link and run the shield wall or into a Gith camp.  The upside is... you can spam-walk and emote at the same time?  I'm not sure I get it.

[Spud]

Would this make travel quicker/slower or just stay the same? If the 'head' command was used for travel between cities, we would probably have people riding from Allanak to Tuluk in 5 minutes, or however quickly it could be done. I'd be more in favour if the 'head' command maybe slowed down travel. That way, people wouldn't ride by things or miss them before typing stop, it would also make travel more realistic for people who chose to just spam directions between cities.

Seems the downside is people or groups are going to get in trouble because they'll lag or drop link and run the shield wall or into a Gith camp.

Don't all commands stop when someone drops link? I think if you've spammed a few directions and lose link, it stops where you are. I know you don't become thirstier or hungrier.

[Morgenes]

You currently can emote and talk while walking.  You can do n;n;n;n;emote claps cause he's happy;n;n;n;n  The 'emote claps cause he's happy' will go off and you'll keep walking.  This really wouldn't change that, behind the scenes the game would be typing 'n;n;n;n;n' for you.  The advantage is you don't have to keep typing 'n;n;n;n;n' to walk up the north road, or cross Tuluk.  

Yes I can see the lag issue or loosing link.  We could probably work it so that if you loose link you automatically 'stop', however I'm not sure that we could help lag.  If you have a laggy link, don't use the command.  If you have your speedwalk aliases set up, then sure, don't use the command.

I'm pretty sure that if we do it, it'll be with the 'head <direction>' syntax, and not as a default for the normal movement commands.  So if you don't want to risk it, don't use it.

I guess the true question is, if this were in, would you use it?

[Marauder Moe]

Seems the downside is people or groups are going to get in trouble because they'll lag or drop link and run the shield wall or into a Gith camp.

Don't all commands stop when someone drops link? I think if you've spammed a few directions and lose link, it stops where you are. I know you don't become thirstier or hungrier.

Most of the time, I don't think the game even detects a lost link until right before the player reconnects.  It may take several minutes without a signal from the client before the server gives up and calls it a lost connection.

[Morgenes]

Would this make travel quicker/slower or just stay the same?

It would be the same as if you had spammed n;n;n;n;n;n;  just the game is doing it for you behind the scenes, instead of you having to type it.

If the 'head' command was used for travel between cities, we would probably have people riding from Allanak to Tuluk in 5 minutes, or however quickly it could be done. I'd be more in favour if the 'head' command maybe slowed down travel. That way, people wouldn't ride by things or miss them before typing stop, it would also make travel more realistic for people who chose to just spam directions between cities.

The benefit in my mind is that they'd have to think about the fact that they need to turn in x rooms, or actually be watching where they are going, instead of having all the turns pre-mapped out in a macro.

[Marauder Moe]

I guess the true question is, if this were in, would you use it?

I suppose, truthfully, no I wouldn't.  I never stack movement commands.  That's just me though.  *shrug*

[Larrath]

I like this idea.  However, I have a few points to raise.
First of all, some special circumstances should automatically stop the Heading if a few special conditions are met - room is storming, dark and disorienting, or the exit in question is modified (a certain swordy spell comes to mind).

Second, it might also be good to limit this to sector types - disconnection detection isn't perfect and I don't want to end up in the middle of a tarantula lair because I was walking from the Dragon Temple to the Gaj.

Third and, well, really my biggest point is that I don't really think infinite movement would be good.  I'd rather have it done like this:

Code Select Expand


> head north 6 (emote goes here)


This might have the side effect of making travel fast and unrealistic outdoors, however, since this basically gives legitimation to spamwalking.
All in all, it might do more harm than good, even though it would be convenient to have.

I would use this if it was implemented and so would everyone else, and this is the problem.

[Morrolan]

I -really- don't think I would use it outside of cities.  How would this command interact with a sandstorm, especially for a non-ranger?  *shudder*  I just -hope- I would see the disorientation message in time.

Even in cities, unless there is a "head north <distance>" option, I think I would just stick with the old, fuddy-duddy way of typing in each command.  Many characters ago, I was coming out the Gaj once, back when I used spamwalk.  I typed /w8w to get to a certain crossroads...and watched helplessly as the gate guards went by.

If implemented, "head" should -never- be used by the tired, absent-minded, or under-the-influence.

Morrolan

EDIT to add: I really like Larrath's idea of adding movement emotes to the head command, should it be implemented.

[Tamarin]

I think this is great.  If you 'head north' and just start walking...think about it!  You'd have to stay there and watch to make sure you can stop at the right time, which means more RP (generally speaking).

Especially in Tuluk, with the huge ass long roads.

Code Select Expand

>The Road of Merchants [NW]

You think:
   "I think I'll go to the tribal market..."

>head north

You start walking north.

...insert rooms going by...

You say to your companion in tatlum:
    "Blah blah blah....blah blah...no!...blah  blah..."

...more rooms go by...

The Road of Merchants [NES]

You think:
    "Oh here we are."

>stop

You stop walking.

This would be awesome!  It makes walking no longer spam walking, and more like actual walking.  When you walk, you don't say "I'll walk a block.  Ok done.  Now I'll walk another block.  Ok done."  You just....walk!

[Maybe42or54]

I like it, but I may never use it outside of a city.

[Marauder Moe]

Yeah, but in real life you also don't walk right by your best friend without saying hello because you were lagged, linkdead, or typing an emote about how your sequin boots sparkle in the sun.

[Tamarin]

Yes, well...you might if you didn't see him.  Sometimes you'll stop, and sometimes you won't.  Isn't that the way things go when you walk down a crowded street?

[Marauder Moe]

I suppose.  Still, I personally don't see the benefit of such a command but I do see several dangers and drawbacks.

[Maybe42or54]

Will it be slower than normal movement? If I am raiding and pillaging the latest tribe of elvin tents, and I "head east" will they be able to catch up to me?

[Morgenes]

I'm still unsure if it'll just be the normal movement delay (as if you'd spam walked) or if I'd add in an extra pulse or two or not.  You certainly could (head east; run) to try and make sure you get away.  Most likely it'll be as if you'd spammed the commands (no extra delay)

[Jakahri]

In all honesty I would not use this command.

I prefer to take my time while traveling, unless I simply have no ooc time to devote to the game for an individual task.

I foresee alot of people dying to this command, though.

Say no to spamming.

[Lazloth]

I realize it's not really in the scope of this dialogue, but it'd be super keen if you could set waypoints and head to those.  In other words, for example, at some point in your character's life, you bind the 'Naki Salarri weaponshop with 'sweap' (or whatever tag you decide), and "head sweap" would start your journey to there from wherever you are (probably within the zone or some limit).

Regarding the original proposal, as a different vehicle to n;n;s;e;w;e;w;u, I'm sure I'd find myself using it - but wouldn't want canonical n;n;s;e;w;e;w;u movement removed either.

[Intrepid]

I like the idea a lot.  So much so that I'd use it as an elf as my default
command if traversing long distances.

[Lazloth]

I realize it's not really in the scope of this dialogue, but it'd be super keen if you could set waypoints and head to those.  In other words, for example, at some point in your character's life, you bind the 'Naki Salarri weaponshop with 'sweap' (or whatever tag you decide), and "head sweap" would start your journey to there from wherever you are (probably within the zone or some limit).

Sorry - still thinking aloud.  

Additional note if you ever consider waypoint movement, is that you'd probably add some logistical wrinkles:  like restrict your targettable options to your starting location, or for outdoors spots limit to outdoorsy types, etc.  Maybe overthinking.  Certainly dreaming

[Irulan]

I could see using the head command inside the cities, but I would not ever feel comfortable using it outside the cities. I may be way too conservative, but I am always a little jumpy outside the city anyways, and I like to look in all directions while walking around out there. The other thing that bothers me a little bit about this command is that it would just be like you were spam walking. I don't really see how that would allow you to have more emotes or more RP. If there was a pause or two thrown in while using it, I would like that more. Also, if it is the usual spam walking timing, I think it would end up with people overshooting their mark alot, which would make it annoying. That said, I'd use it in the cities, preferable with a little extra beat of time thrown in there for fun. :-)

[jmordetsky]

I'm ALL about this. I actually started to script this into my client, so that every N seconds it would send me in a give direction. But I couldn't figure out how to get it to stop.

WOULD LOVE IT. I hate n;n;n;n;n;n;n;n;n.

[Cale_Knight]

I'd never really use these commands.

The only time I'd think about using them would be in cities, but when I'm walking long distances in cities I pretty much stack the movement commands anyway.

[Xygax]

Maybe instead of "head", we could use "travel" or "proceed".  The "head" command would make my inner-Beavis too powerful.

-- X

[jhunter]

No way, give in to your inner Beavis. use "head". I'm okay with it so long as it wasn't automatic and, as others have said, I would probably never use it outside a city. It would be nice for those "taking a walk" "patrolling" with your friend moments to make having a conversation while walking somewhere less clunky and stuttered.

[spawnloser]

Maybe instead of "head", we could use "travel" or "proceed".  The "head" command would make my inner-Beavis too powerful.

Heheheh, he said 'head!'

Yeah, I'd giggled about this one already.

Me, I'm all for the concept, but I do understand the wrinkles.  Perhaps a numerical argument to prevent people from going too far if they go linkdead?

Code Select Expand

> go 10 n

[SpyGuy]

Add command emotes to it and we'd be set

No default, it'd be too confusing for new players by far.  But as a chronic movement stacker I'd probably use it some of the time just for my own sake.  I don't see it as an all encompassing solution by any means but it'd be a nice supplement to what we have in game.

I also really really like spawnlosers suggestion.  Maybe "go north" would set you off moving till you "stop" or get blocked.  But "go north 10" could be used and you'd automatically stop after ten rooms?  If that was possible it'd make the command a -lot- safer and maybe even more versatile.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I say no to just 'HEAD NORTH'.

I certianly say yes to 'HEAD NORTH 10', or some other like instruction.

It should stop if you encounter any object blocking an exit, if someone tries to subdue you, fight you, or speak to you, or give you something.

[spawnloser]

I dunno about speak...I mean, what if there's two people, one following the other, and they want to talk to each other, and the leader types 'go n 15' ...but every three rooms the chatty guy following him tells him something.  There goes all usefulness of the command...and there goes your ability to use the time while your character walks to do other things like talk back to the chatty person that keeps stopping your walking.  I mean, can you not listen to someone while walking?  If there is still a 'stop' command to stop earlier than the number entered, you can stop yourself when a Templar yells to 'Halt!' or the like.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Good point.

[X-D]

I'm with 7DV on this myself.

Though, with wintin, I can already do exactly that.

3n4e5n

And we are off!

[EvilRoeSlade]

I hate it when people power walk and I'd hate to see a command that makes it easy and legitimate for them to do it.

[Morgenes]

I guess I don't see this as legitimizing power walking, more making moving more like natural moving.  I don't know about you guys, but I start walking in a direction and I don't have to consciously tell myself, ok go on, move further.  If I'm walking down the street, I just walk and usally end up drifting off in thought (generally an idea to code for Arm)

*shrugs*

[Tamarin]

Yep I completely agree, Morg.

[Rhyden]

I guess I don't see this as legitimizing power walking, more making moving more like natural moving.  I don't know about you guys, but I start walking in a direction and I don't have to consciously tell myself, ok go on, move further.  If I'm walking down the street, I just walk and usally end up drifting off in thought (generally an idea to code for Arm)

True, but on the other hand, I don't have to tell myself to stop moving as I'm walking which would need to be done with the head command. I just don't think the present way or the head command can really make walking 'realistic' with the grid layout of Armageddon. Heh. I think this idea would be amazing for wagons though, but not so much on-foot.

[Rindan]

I can see the value of this command, but I have a few reservations.  It would be suicidal to use it in the desert as is.  You will walk off the shield wall, run into a wall of gith, or just disconnect/lag and end up way off course and/or dead.  I wouldn't use it most of the time because in the instances where I would want to talk to someone, I wouldn't want to be spam walking at full speed.

I would offer the following suggestions.

Change the syntax to 'travel <direction> <delay> <number of rooms>'

This way you can drop in a custom delay and make it so that you move only a finite number of rooms so if you disconnect you are not screwed.  I would use this command.  This way you can still leave plenty of time for emoting and interaction in each room and you also get to keep your hands free for emoting and talking.

If I had to lead a bunch of Byn, with this command it would make my life easy.  I would set reasonable travel distances so that if I disconnect I am not screwed, and I can make a nice long delay giving people plenty of time to emote, look ahead for danger, and talk.

In my opinion, the ability to set a delay and set a number of rooms to move is really key.  The delay makes it useful for non-spam walking, and the number of rooms you walk for keeps it from basically being suicide if you disconnect and the game doesn't detect it.  Without those two features, I would probably just stick the old fashion way.

[Vesperas]

I give this a 'no' vote.

I used to play a game that had a similar thing set up called 'travel.'  You could turn 'travel' on, and then head off in a direction.  It was particularly safe, since the game also used space and distance, and you could 'stop' anytime before actually leaving an area in case of emergency.

However, there was HUGE problems when people went link-dead or were lagged, or failed to watch where they were going -- and they walked straight into rooms with Big Nasties, or, the travel command would not stop in the case of link-death.  The MUD likes to champion the fact they have 6 million wilderness rooms, so you can imagine that if you didn't get back on for a few hours, you'd be up shit creek.

Now, as for Armageddon...

I think people use spam-walk too much already in cities.  I hate passing someone on the street and not even have time to interact with them, ESPECIALLY during off-peak times when I'm desperate for peoplez.  I know I shouldn't be able to single out some guy on a crowded street, but the same goes for tavern-squatters.. what makes you talk to that man in the hood in the left corner over the virtual man in the hood in the right corner other than the fact he's a player?

And.. you would see A LOT of more newbie corpses on the bottom of the wall.