The life of an Allanaki Noble

[Naiona]

This thread is a continuation of the Get No Respect thread.  

Before anyone goes further - I suggest you read RP- Allanak Nobles.  It should be noted that this document by Sanvean was written in 2002 and based on a document from 1994.  None of this is new.  A further document with much of the same information is here.

Next, I would suggest you look to the fashion documentation - also older documentation.

The Social Mores document is meant as a guideline to assist new nobles in following standard norms long-established in game.  The document itself is two years old and again, nothing new.

*** From here down is personal opinion and not official documentation***

The fact is that the nobility of Allanak is not a hands-on type of ruling class.  They are the indolent rich.  They are the wealthy that think they are better then everyone else and should never -have- to lift a pinky to do anything.  They pride themselves on wearing the most restricitve clothing possible so that they can show to others that they are so well off that servants tend to their every need - since the simple act of bending or taking a large step might be difficult in fashionable apparel.

There are warlike people with violent natures and aggressive tendencies - they are the templars.  The templarate leads soldiers, plans invasions (with some assistance from the Tor Academy and the nobility there) and defends the city with the power granted to them by the Sorcerer King. For a regular noble to take an interest in personally planning an invasion, training a gladiator slave or tending a vineyard would be akin to Paris Hilton deciding to descale the plumbing or work on the loading dock of a family-owned hotel.  It just wouldn't happen.

Now, there is a lot of opportunity for nobles to do 'things' and get involved in plots and intrigue.  In fact, some clans have made it possible for PC nobles to climb the ranks inside their family to positions never before available to PCs.  Though none have made it yet, it is now possible and that should make things interesting for those who want to try to attain that level of power.   In fact, when I watch our current PC nobles playing, I see them very busy and having trouble keeping up with everything they are involved in.  There are many, many ways for the player of a noble to improve their character's position and keep busy.  However, physical labor remains the province of the working class.

[Marauder Moe]

Didn't Paris Hilton do that show where she worked on a farm?   :wink:

Anyway, is there no room for a noble to have an intellectual curiosity with mundane things?  Might a Borsail Lord personally supervise a gladiator's training to try and improve the proccess?  Is it totally unthinkable that an Oash Lord would visit his family's vineyards?  I'll admit that such curiousity leading to hands-on experience would at the very least be considered eccentric, though.

As for sparring, I would have hoped that the other thread's discussion revolved solely around Templars and Tor nobles.  Certainly no other family of noble has any business sparring, with commoners or otherwise.

[Cuusardo]

Derail:

Looking further down, I noticed that tregil hide is not mentioned in the section about leather and furs.

[CaleKnight]

It's fine that the nobles in Zalanthas are the indolent rich, but that doesn't necessarily mean they would never take part in certain activities.

Many things which are laborous to common folk could easily be hobbies and diversions to nobles.

Swordfighting and gardening, two things that Naiona specifically mentioned, have been the hobbies of real-life nobility for hundreds and thousands of years.

You don't have to be a "warlike person with violent tendancies" to take pleasure in learning to swordfight.

Why do people in the real world do things like organized sports and martial arts? Because it's fun and also because heavy activity of that sort releases happy feel-good endorphins into your system. Zalanthas commoners work and fight because they have to, but Zalanthas nobles are in exactly the right place, socially and economically, where they can afford to do that sort of thing and enjoy it.

A commoner who maintains a nobles' garden is a gardener.
An Oashi lord who maintains a small vineyard because he's looking to breed a new strain of grape is a botanist.

[Bogre]

Agreed, Caleknight, but what about an Oashi Lord who pays a commoner gardener exclusively to follow his exact words in developing a new strain of grape? Then he would be a botanist, using his vastly greater noble knowledge, and the gardener would be a gardener.

Then it creates RP for 2 people too!

That's the thing about nobles, IMO. I think they can take an interest in things physical...but should probably pay others to do it for them so they can enjoy it.

[Jakahri]

Great post Naiona.

Now, there is a lot of opportunity for nobles to do 'things' and get involved in plots and intrigue.

Thank you.

[Naiona]

It's fine that the nobles in Zalanthas are the indolent rich, but that doesn't necessarily mean they would never take part in certain activities.

Many things which are laborous to common folk could easily be hobbies and diversions to nobles.

Swordfighting and gardening, two things that Naiona specifically mentioned, have been the hobbies of real-life nobility for hundreds and thousands of years.

This is actually quite true and I think that any of the noble staff would encourage their nobles to take an interest in such things.

However - and this is the big however - they would do it in accordance with the noble documentation and guidelines.  What does that mean?  Well.. if Joe Borsail wanted to learn to be a swordsman for giggles... he might start by having his aides collect information on what the best weapons and armor are this year (assuming he was going for style over substance) and he might then meet with merchants and place orders, see that he is properly color coordinated and looks good..and then he might arrange for one of his commoner employees to drill him and teach him (note I did not say fight with him).    If they do this for a pretty consistent amount of time, there is a fair chance we'd give him some actual skill.  

If Joe -did- decide to become a swordsman though, he might find himself snickered at by his cousins who think that lifting a goblet is strenuous exercise - and that is fine.  As long as Joe knows this is going to happen and he doesn't lower himself to trading blows with some common fella, he's going to be okay.  He may find he has to work harder to prove he is competent in non-physical areas, because Borsail nobles are quick to judge and enjoy making fun of others - but again, it can be done.  If Joe does a good job of getting past the early snickering of his family while maintaining dignity and not breaking an tabboos and shows he can accomplish other things important to the house, he may well gain the respect of the senior nobility.

If Joe decided he wanted to train gladiators, he'd probably do it by supervising the common folk hired to do just that sort of thing.  He might study their moves, the breeding of muls or even the physical bodies of the slaves in combat.  He could keep journals and notes, devise new breeding plans or training strategies and best of all - ways to sell the brutes for more money.  All of these types of activities would not only be allowed, they'd likely lead to promotion.

Similarly, an Oash noble who decided to study the different types of ocitillo and how planting them in a variety of ways or with other crops might boost production could very well win the happiness of his house.  But one that spent all their time pruning the vines just because they liked the dirt might be seen as eccentric and an easy target for snickering.  However, that same noble might keep a personal patch of land somewhere for their experimentation and it would again be looked at as a seperate and "noble" endeavor.

I hope I am making sense with this.  We don't want to limit noble activities or fun.  We just want to make sure that they remain different from commoner actitivies and allow for the hiring of many other PCs along with lots of planning, plots and conflict.

[ale six]

I think the key thing to note in this discussion is the word 'indolent'.

Allanaki nobility are very very hands-off. These people have probably never had to do any sort of manual labor in their lives. Most of them probably stay inside their Estates or inside the noble's quarter and live their spoiled little lives without ever worrying about the city at large.

Certainly some of them might have interests and hobbies they pursue, related or not to their House's duties. As an example, let's say a Borsail noble wants to come up with a way to produce even better gladiators. She might start by studying mul breeding and figure out which traits in the parents breed the best muls. Or, she might examine what conditioning muls are given during their training -- maybe forcing them to be whipped by enslaved gith makes the muls angrier and more eager to kill gith. Or maybe she decides that axes make the best mul-weapons and decree that the mul she gets to train has to hug his axe to his chest while he sleeps and carry it everywhere. All of that seems fine to me.

I think the point Naiona is making is that the nobles would never actually get into the ring with a gladiator and try to train it themselves. That's actually physically DOING something. Nobles give orders and call shots and tell other people what to do, they never have to bother doing it themselves. Why should the noble exert himself and (*gasp*) maybe even tire herself out teaching this mul to swing an axe when she has other people who can do it for her?

The same goes for Oashi: I'm sure they can visit their family's vineyards and think up all these techniques for new ways to grow wine plants. Maybe you want to experiment and see if soil from the Grey Forest makes bigger ocotillo bulbs than Red Storm silt, or whatever. You send people to go gather the soil, have them plant the bulbs, let them grow and tell you what happens. Lady Oash is -never- going to be tending vines herself, though. Spend all that time among plants? Get her hands dirty? Are you kidding?

Likewise, Valikans might study economics and ways to make the City coffers grow, but I doubt they actually write down the accounting themselves (they have trained slaves for keeping books). House Jal nobles are the ones designing sewers and organising maintenance, I highly doubt they ever actually visit sewers themselves. And so on.

Nobility have their people to order around. They tell others what to do, they don't do it themselves. They are literate and educated and probably like to create abstract theories and think they know everything, but in terms of practical skill, like how to swordfight, how to tend a vine, how to do any sort of physical labor, they probably don't know and don't care.

[Armaddict]

This is actually quite true and I think that any of the noble staff would encourage their nobles to take an interest in such things.

However - and this is the big however - they would do it in accordance with the noble documentation and guidelines. What does that mean? Well.. if Joe Borsail wanted to learn to be a swordsman for giggles... he might start by having his aides collect information on what the best weapons and armor are this year (assuming he was going for style over substance) and he might then meet with merchants and place orders, see that he is properly color coordinated and looks good..and then he might arrange for one of his commoner employees to drill him and teach him (note I did not say fight with him). If they do this for a pretty consistent amount of time, there is a fair chance we'd give him some actual skill.

If Joe -did- decide to become a swordsman though, he might find himself snickered at by his cousins who think that lifting a goblet is strenuous exercise - and that is fine. As long as Joe knows this is going to happen and he doesn't lower himself to trading blows with some common fella, he's going to be okay. He may find he has to work harder to prove he is competent in non-physical areas, because Borsail nobles are quick to judge and enjoy making fun of others - but again, it can be done. If Joe does a good job of getting past the early snickering of his family while maintaining dignity and not breaking an tabboos and shows he can accomplish other things important to the house, he may well gain the respect of the senior nobility.

If Joe decided he wanted to train gladiators, he'd probably do it by supervising the common folk hired to do just that sort of thing. He might study their moves, the breeding of muls or even the physical bodies of the slaves in combat. He could keep journals and notes, devise new breeding plans or training strategies and best of all - ways to sell the brutes for more money. All of these types of activities would not only be allowed, they'd likely lead to promotion.

Similarly, an Oash noble who decided to study the different types of ocitillo and how planting them in a variety of ways or with other crops might boost production could very well win the happiness of his house. But one that spent all their time pruning the vines just because they liked the dirt might be seen as eccentric and an easy target for snickering. However, that same noble might keep a personal patch of land somewhere for their experimentation and it would again be looked at as a seperate and "noble" endeavor.

I hope I am making sense with this. We don't want to limit noble activities or fun. We just want to make sure that they remain different from commoner actitivies and allow for the hiring of many other PCs along with lots of planning, plots and conflict.

Just out of curiousity on what your opinion on the matter is, Naiona...

Is the above example more oriented towards the...I dunno what to call it, 'business oriented' houses and their families?  What about the houses that are more military oriented?  Or even with the nobility of Borsail that take a general interest in improving and coordinating the slaving aspect of the house?

And before I go into this, I'll explain that these 'exceptions' or variances from what your example said is based on the idea that a lot of nobles do take an interest in the Family's business or assigned role in their city.  I realize that a lot -don't-, and instead live their life in languid comfort and that's it, but in some cases, I don't think these nobles, nor the higher ranking nobles of the house, would be disappointed or make fun of another noble for acting somewhat out of the 'norm' that documentation states.

House Tor:

Military down to their stiff little toes, the Tors rose from the ranks of Tektolnes' army. Obsessed with weapons and matters of martial honor, the Tors participate in the city's defense as well as attacks on other areas.

House Lyksae:

The title of noble was granted to Garas Lyksae for his achievements in the wars with Allanak. Though Garas passed away before Tuluk was fully liberated, his heirs were allowed to retain the title. Lyksae is not a large house, but has retained its focus on military strategy and is responsible for defense of the Gol Krathu region.

House Winrothol:

Combined with a large number of slaves of various other humanoid races, Winrothol quickly began to focus the training regimen of these slaves towards military discipline. They have provided the Rebellion and the Lirathans with a dedicated, almost fanatical, regiment of troops ready to die for their Liege.

 These three houses, in particular show at least emphasis (not that it's their purpose, but it's an important part of their methods/values in their work) on military knowledge and discipline.  While it's employees who really get gritty with it, train the slaves/soldiers, and spar to insure they're the best at what they do, it still seems to me that the Family would naturally hold a lot of the idealogy.  
 Fitness, and the measures to maintain such, wouldn't actually be a bad thing, would it?  Fitness is an acknowledged way to maintain a disciplined lifestyle, and discipline is something all military houses hold as a valuable trait in their soldiers and in the military in general.  Is a noble trying to become the 'epitome' or prime example of fitness or discipline something that will draw whispers from the other nobles or be considered against documentation?
 On the use of armors, the above applies as well.  While uncomfortable, heavy, and perhaps unnecessary with the noble's entourage of guards, someone who is famous, reknowned, -noble- because of their military know-how and excellence in anything martial may want to give that first impression of such, particularly when handling business.  So would armor -really- be all that uncommon in these houses?  Perhaps not dominant, but far from a travesty, too.
 Sparring.  This one I'm kind of in agreement with, and kind of against as well.  I don't think a noble of one of these houses sparring other nobles in a friendly way, or with templarate to aide them in their own further fitness in preparedness, is out of line.   When it gets out of line is when it becomes obvious a noble is just trying to improve their own skills beyond a practical level.  By this, I mean one who's going out of their way to spar a lot.  By this line of logic, a noble -may- actually become a very good swordsman, but it will be a long process, over years and years and years, just from all the friendly matches (that generally don't occur) and relations with the templarate.  I just feel a long-lived, higher ranking noble of one of the 'military' houses may indeed know some of the physical part as well rather than just the studies and strategems and such.

On the question above about even in houses like Borsail, I was along the lines that once in awhile, or perhaps even constantly, there may be respected members of the house who perhaps delved more into military things or received training from one of the military houses, and used that knowledge to improve an aspect of their house where those things apply.  So some of the above ideas may be allowed for some granted few in more houses than just the military ones.

Now, with the above in mind, that would mean there is generally a good portion of the nobility who could go that way.  So for the general documentation, there are kind of exemptions naturally built in against it which makes it kind of confusing to play in the roles of those exemptions.

In your opinion, is the above a pretty decent way of looking at it, or am I totally off course with the idea that there are actually a decent amount of people who go 'against the rule' fairly easily?  And to those who -are- one of those exemptions I think there are...I understand the occasional jibes by the more lavish, languid nobles, but is it something that would actually be generally, as a rule, frowned upon?

[Maybe42or54]

Nobles in My opinion, aren't Indolent. They are trapped within their own molded reality. Much like the nobles of our past, such as Marie Antoinette.
Back in those days, their OWN reality told them that dressing up as a maid, and milking cows was fun. Unlocking, and relocking doors, all day, was fun. They wore all manners of clothing that made them perfect in their reality. Leather collars to keep their chin up, bustiers to get the "shape", etc.

I don't think indolent is the right word, since I looked it up and it said, "lazy." They are just really snooty. Too good for everything, but that doesn't mean "dressing up as a commoner" to have that "Cute" disguise is a no-no, since that would be insulting. Too many times, IG, I have seen nobles cower so they "Don't look bad" to the public. THEY ARE TOO good for the public.