New Player GDB Forum.

[LoD]

I've seen several comments regarding new players and the GDB.

Do you (especially newer players) think that a new player forum would make your comments/suggestions/questions more wanted and lessen the amount of harsh replies?  The majority of the bad comments seem to come from players that have little or no patience with new players, and perhaps it would be beneficial for them to have a forum in which they, staff and helpers could post to try and cut down on the negative comments?

Just thinking aloud, really.

-LoD

[ale six]

I definitely think the GDB could be a little nicer to newbies.

How would you work a 'new player' forum without being able to tell who's an actual newbie and who isn't, though? Right now there's no real way to do that on the GDB.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Nah. To be honest, we're not really that mean, man. There's a lot of smartasses on the board, but I think people get their feelings hurt way too easily. If Newbies can't deal with us being smartasses, I really don't think they'll get far in the game.

[WarriorPoet]

I just think that people who are a shit to newbies should get a judo-chop to the neck, or maybe Twitted for a few days. Without new players Arm dies, and without a semi-helpful atmosphere, at least on the GDB, we're pissing away our stream of newbies.

A newbie forum would be nice, but then if it was up to me I'd keep all new players off of the GDB for their first three months or so. I feel you would learn much more if you just play the game for awhile and not have to listen to the constant gripes and bitches of the sour old fuckers that frequent the GDB...

Helpers should be where new players turn in their first weeks of confusion, I say. Maybe have a Helper-only forum similar to Ask the Staff?

-WP

[Malifaxis]

There's a line, WP, I think, that sometimes is crossed.

I've seen some very cool newbies, with honest questions, get shot down, and that makes me grit my teeth.  I've done the shooting once or twice, when having a bad day, but I almost always come back with an apology and an offer for some honest good advice.

But there's some of the newbies, a couple who are here right now, and one in particular who I would *LOVE* to name, but I won't, who are just downright fucking disrespectful.  This sucks that, and this blows that, and I'm right and I should have a psionicist with a steel dick kind of players.  The kind of people who need to get their asses whipped a few times just to learn how to put their pants on straight... because they simply will not listen to the fact that it has to be done one fucking leg at a time.

Yes, new blood is important, but it is also important to keep a certain intelligence quotient among the populace.  Newbies are expected to make dumb mistakes, but they are also expected to listen to smart advice.  It's the most painless route of going from newbie to vet that there is.  Not to say it is the only route, but it is certainly the best for most players involved, newbies and vets alike.

[Sholdyn]

Isn't the 'Ask The Players' forum supposed to be mostly for newbie questions?

[Yokunama]

I just think that people who are a shit to newbies should get a judo-chop to the neck, or maybe Twitted for a few days. Without new players Arm dies, and without a semi-helpful atmosphere, at least on the GDB, we're pissing away our stream of newbies.

Some of these players with this "I hate n00bs" attitude sometimes bring it into the game.

[Cale_Knight]

Isn't the 'Ask The Players' forum supposed to be mostly for newbie questions?

I came into this thread specifically to make that comment.

[LoD]

Isn't the 'Ask The Players' forum supposed to be mostly for newbie questions?

If the forum were labeled, "New Player Discussion" or something along those lines, perhaps other players wouldn't be as swift to attach snide or sarcastic remarks that will often be redundant and/or full of that "new" passion that is evident when someone really gets hooked by the game.

The title "Ask the Players" just doesn't seem to establish the same  patient, understanding and helpful tone that something specifically mentioning new players might.  It also may not be apparent to New Players that "Ask the Players" is their main vehicle to get questions answered.

If I were joining Armageddon for the first time, I think I would find it helpful to have a forum devoted to new people asking stupid questions so I didn't feel as if I were bothering anyone on a forum that is otherwise taken more seriously.

Perhaps changing "Ask the Players" to "New Player Discussion" might make it easier if that is indeed the main purpose of the forum, which the text below its name clearly states.

-LoD

[Delirium]

If I recall correctly, it was originally changed from 'Newbie Discussion' (or something similar) to 'Ask the Players' because, at the time, the staff wanted new and old players alike to direct their questions to the playerbase to that forum.  There was a discussion about it, maybe Lazloth can dig it up.

[Rindan]

I personally would like a "new players forum".  One more form is not going to harm anything.  Furhter, I would like it if the imms liberally banned people from that forum for making a poor showing or going off topic.  The last thing a new player needs when they ask a question is a smart ass answer or non-answer.

[RunningMountain]

I got no problem helping newbies over aim or something, it's a lot easier for me to help through instant messengers then it is over the forums for some reason. These forums just brew contempt from all angles for some reason.

[Delirium]

Perhaps an 'Ask the Helpers' forum.

Responded to only by those already trusted to treat new players well.


It could also help to promote awareness of the availability of the helpers.

[Marauder Moe]

I'm not sure how neccesary such a forum would be.  Just about everything a new player needs or would want to know is either in the docs, the help files, the archives, or should be learned in-game.  If someone doesn't understand something from any of those sources, they should contact a helper.  A newbie forum is just going to encourage laziness.

Besides, how does one define a newbie anyway?


Edit: Really, the best and easiest thing to do would be for people to not post stupid and/or off-topic answers to serious newbie questions.

[marko]

I'm not sure how neccesary such a forum would be.  Just about everything a new player needs or would want to know is either in the docs, the help files, the archives, or should be learned in-game.  If someone doesn't understand something from any of those sources, they should contact a helper.  A newbie forum is just going to encourage laziness.

You know, sometimes you can read through pages and pages of documentation and still have a simple question.  One that established players will think is stupid.  That's not laziness - that's just normal.  I've done it countless times.  Hell, I still ask basic questions about certain things and I've written some of the docs.  :p  

---

In response to the original suggestion and other comments:

I think that a newbie board that is seperate from the GDB would be a great help.  I believe that it should be monitored and anyone who crosses the line and barks at a newbie for being a newbie would get banned from it.  No warnings, no chances, just you screw up you are gone from that board.  They could still post on the GDB but they would not be welcome at the newbie board.

I honestly find a lot of Arm players to be elitist with holier than thou attitudes and it can really push newbies away.  We all started as newbies.  Some of us were worse than others - I was a terrible newbie.  I knew nothing about the game world.  It took years for me to get an understanding and to "get it."  Newbies are just trying to fast track this process by asking questions and being enthusiastic.  

Let's give them a spot to be enthusiastic and to get polite responses that encourage rather than beat them down with a newbie-stick.

[Sanvean]

Right now the description of the "Ask the Players" forum says:

Are you a new player with questions? Post them here, and they'll be answered as soon as possible. Please avoid discussions of the magick code unless it's something everyone should know.

I can change it back to New Player Questions if people think that would work better.

[Sanvean]

If you see someone being rude to a new player, feel free to email me about it and I'll talk to them about it.

[Lazloth]

Perhaps an 'Ask the Helpers' forum.

Responded to only by those already trusted to treat new players well.


It could also help to promote awareness of the availability of the helpers.

Personally, I don't think that's necessary, though I'm another one in favor of renaming "Ask the Players" to something more newbie-friendly.  [I'll take your challenge and dig up the reference to the board being renamed btw; this one is trickier than a simple search though.]

As a tangent, if it were up to me, I'd consolidate the forums as currently stand (minimally merge General/World/Roleplay?/Code?, or maybe restructure some of the others).

[Intrepid]

Another thing to consider is that a new player may find the "Newbie
Forum" far more intimidating than a forum where players, young and old,
are all asking questions.

[LoD]

Another thing to consider is that a new player may find the "Newbie
Forum" far more intimidating than a forum where players, young and old,
are all asking questions.

More intimidating, or less?  I would be much less intimidated to post on a board where people know I am a noob and might be asking a question other people have asked 50 times.  Usually newbie forums have a dedicated core of players that help new players out because they are patient, generally kind and helpful.

At least that has been my experience.  I don't know that we need any change at all, but I thought I'd bring it up since some other folks were mentioning recently how friends of theirs had considered the GDB newbie-unfriendly.

I wouldn't mind hearing how some of the newer players felt when they first joined the game and if they would've wanted a resource like that or if they would, indeed, have found it more intimidating than the regular forums.

-LoD

[Intrepid]

More intimidating.  Like a spotlight is being placed on you.  When I was a
newbie, I didn't advertise it.  I even convinced a few people I'd been
playing a while, since I used my knowledge of the genres Arm is based on
to navigate my way through.  We talk with all sorts of people on the
forum who advertise being newbies, but there is a silent group who gives
no indication and may not even be using the boards much because some
of the older players are, on occasion, snide to newer players.

Disclaimer: If you're an older player and don't think you're snide to newer
players, I probably wasn't talking about you.

[LauraMars]

As a new player myself, I totally, totally, totally think we should have a newbie forum or helper's only forum, like ask the staff.  I remember how intimidating those first few weeks were...and I didn't like to post my questions on the GDB for fear of being scoffed at, (I'd been reading, you see, and saw me quite a lot of negative attitudes) and so used it as a last resort.  Luckily, I made some nice and helpful friends right away, and read docs, otherwise I'd be a lot farther behind than I am.  But other players may not be so lucky.  I say YES to this idea, with a capital Y-E-S.

[spawnloser]

We used to have a forum that suggested it was for n00bs to post in, didn't we?  It was changed to the way it is now so that people didn't have to admit to being a n00b after playing for a year already but simply didn't know one thing or whatnot, I thought.

I'm fine with things they way they are.

[Sholdyn]

You know what? There are always going to be people who blow up at certain questions. And also, I don't like how people see "newbies" on this board.

I don't think that are really these Big Bad Newbie Bashing Assholes who troll the board ready to pounce on the first unsure newbie they see. It's the person who's having a bad day, or the one who has a personal pet peeve of the subject, or maybe they asked a similar question once and they got bitched at for it. If there was a person who constantly made it their business to tear people apart, they would be kicked out. So, maybe a 'newbie' forum will help make it easier to identify repeat offenders, but I don't think it will solve the problem.

Then there is the point that I believe Moe brought up. How do you define a "Newbie"? I think everyone is still new to aspects of this game. I would be impressed if anyone could honestly say they knew everything there is to know and experienced everything there is to experience about Arm and had proof to back it up. So what happens? I think if you changed the name to Newbie something, it would just end up being exactly like it is now. Let's get away from the attitude of "I'm a veteran and you're a newbie." I -HATE- that distinction. Everyone has something unique to offer the game, so don't discount someone just because they're new. Besides that, I've seen players that have been around 5+ years, who I feel aren't worth their salt. But, that's not for me to judge. Judging is the job of the Imms.

Now, after that huge rant, I'd also like to say, if you are new to this game, or to this board and someone rips up one of your questions, take it with a grain of salt. Seriously, if you get actually upset because someone didn't like what you had to say, then you need some thicker skin. There are other avenues to get help and if posting on the board isn't working, then try emailing a helper or the mud, or get a helper on your IM list. And if the helper is a dick, then find another helper or ask again later.

Let's stop trying to 'protect' the 'poor little newbies', but at the same time, let's try to keep our emotions under control and be at least a little more understanding of people who don't know an answer that you may or may not know yourself.

Edited to correct horrible typos.

[Seeker]

I don't think we need to change the name of the forum, although I'd be interested to hear Lazloth's suggested reshufflings.

What we need more is an understanding among the GDB that if you don't wish to add anything constructive, useful or helpful in answer to a poster's question, perhaps it is best to type nothing.  Leave it for someone else.


Seeker

(I'd also consider mailing LauraMars a big paper star badge that reads "Newbie Ambassador".)

[mansa]

I promote myself to be the Newbie King.

[flurry]

I am often surprised (and disappointed) by some of the responses people post to newbie questions.  It's not just the snide ones, but the wrong answers that are supposed to be funny, the off-topic crap, and all the otherwise unhelpful noise.  I'm not sure that it's a fixable problem, though.

[bloodfromstone]

I don't think a New Player Discussion forum or anything would make much of a difference. I've stated it many times in the past, and I'm still constantly irritated by the stances people take towards newbies on the boards. Or just to each other on the boards. If experienced players could just hold their breath and not type that unnecessary, unhelpful post, this sort of thing wouldn't be an issue. If a poster, newbie or not, is especially annoying, just don't read their posts. It's really not that hard.

Anyway, what I really mean is that renaming the board will just make it all the more nasty when people go ahead and trash talk newbies on a forum they thought would be safe for them to ask a question on.

[Ritley]

I don't think a New Player Discussion forum or anything would make much of a difference. I've stated it many times in the past, and I'm still constantly irritated by the stances people take towards newbies on the boards. Or just to each other on the boards. If experienced players could just hold their breath and not type that unnecessary, unhelpful post, this sort of thing wouldn't be an issue. If a poster, newbie or not, is especially annoying, just don't read their posts. It's really not that hard.

Anyway, what I really mean is that renaming the board will just make it all the more nasty when people go ahead and trash talk newbies on a forum they thought would be safe for them to ask a question on.

Yes, but there are some jerks on the GDB, and telling them to stop doing it tends to only encourage them in my experience. Maybe we should have like a point thing.... like if you flame more than three times on the GDB you can't use it anymore. So say a IMM saw someone flaming... all they would need to do is click a link on the side which says "Add flaming point"...three of those... you're out! wouldn't take much just a few scripted triggers, and simple HTML.

[spawnloser]

A couple people have had their GDB priveleges revoked.

[Ritley]

A couple people have had their GDB priveleges revoked.

True, but this system would be better. It would stop people flaming in the first place.

[spawnloser]

You can't make people stop flaming.