Crim Code Tweak (new and positive...I swear...)

[Halaster]

But if my char was just flagged and not caught, how does the crim code determine if it was him or not? I've always thought that just getting a wanted flag wasn't enough to positively ID someone say by name, but rather off a vague desc that faded from memory and intensity of searc with time.

If I killed someone in the street, and got away once. Would the second time I did VPNCs start saying, "Oh it was that black-haired elf again?" and as a result my timer be longer? Or is my timer only enlongated if I'm actually apprehended?

It'd be easy enough to account for the difference of just being flagged versus actually jailed.  Obviously, someone would know something about you since you got flagged in the first place, but I can see it fading much more quickly from your 'record' if you never make it to the jails.

[Folker]

(addition, that post was written before the one above it, but due to a lengthly editing process came after it. My reply towards the post above would be, "oooooh. Nice." once it's properly edited and spellchecked ofcourse)

That's pretty much my thoughts. Once you're apprehended and fully identified, then it's understandable. And if your past misdeeds affect the length of the jailtime, then wonderful. That's probably the best way to go.

But if you were cought in the act, chased, and ... not apprehended. Then the militia is not looking for 'you', they're looking for a criminal that 'looks' like you. It's fine if they're able to identify you and see you through all the hiding/sneaking/disguising. That's fine, but what I dont like is the fact that before even catching you and confirming your identity, they'll know your background and previous misdeeds.

Basically, are templars capable of incriminating you( I assume it's when they incriminate you, do they set the timer for the length of jailtime), when you're not in the room ? If they are able to do it, then yes ... the idea flies. But if they are able to set your jail time only if you're present in the room, even if it ment that you've been dragged to them by the militia, then ... I dont think the idea should work.


As for my thoughts about the whole "PC militia do not need extra tools to help apprehend criminals". My thoughts on this go like this, I'd prefer every pc militia to get an immstyle "go to"/"locate" ability, if it ment that my criminal character were to be apprehended by a PC militia, and not an NPC one. In case of the original poster's idea. Lessening the length of wanted timer reduces the odds that your character will be punished by an NPC that no matter how you try has very little interactivity (especially militia NPC, who could aswell insta kill you, and sometimes do just that), and the feature that records any crimes performed in the city increase the odds of you being punished by a PC militia (extra chance for a roleplaying encounter).

To be honest, having given it some thought, I realized how weak and useless proposed "tool" is. So what if a PC militia finds out that some figure wearing a cloak of such and such colours did some naughty thing. Just keep two cloaks with you, one for the job, the other for public appearences and you're set.

[Rindan]

The intent for this idea is so that people who aren't caught very often, and are caught for small crimes do not spend as much time in jail as before.

If the goal is to tweak how long the crime flag is set for, I am indifferent.

The length of a crime flag really is the least of a criminal's concern.  It is a slight OOC irritation at best.  Generally, when you are crime flagged you are either in a spot where NPCs will never get to you, or they are already dragging your ass down the street towards jail.  The length of time you have to wait out a crime flag is just an OOC irritation at that point.

If you keep going to jail as a criminal, you are already scratching years off your life and asking for a Templar to deal with you permanently / scoop you up in some plot or another.  Either way, you mark yourself to the militia.  For a criminal, the amount of time spent in jail is a trivial punishment compared to most other things, regardless of how long it is.  Getting thrown before a Templar is the real punishment or being known to the militia is what gets your life long self imposed banishment from PC interaction.

If this also gives Templars a list of all your crimes, I would be pretty strongly against it.  It is already too easy for a Templar to start gathering information on criminal activities without handing them a list.  In Allanak in particular, I really doubt that they could even devise a method to check who a criminal is, unless they have a pile of very skilled and literate sketch artist that sits around making detailed drawings of every petty thief that comes in through the door.  

In Tuluk, I could see tattooing criminals with their crimes on their forehead and this making a little more sense.

[Synthesis]

Having played many criminals and a few militia personnel (all in Allanak), I'm going to have to side with Rindan on this one.

It's ridiculously easy for PC militia to round up criminals.  You check the taverns, then check the usual hidey-holes, and eventually, you find 'em.  And once you do, they don't have a chance in hell, even if their crim-flag has worn off.

Consequently, it's about impossible to run a successful criminal and actually -do- criminal things in the city.  Sure, you can smuggle spice and sell information and all of that...but that's pretty namby-pamby crime.  Now, I'll admit that I've actually brutally murdered folks in the streets (right in a tavern, a couple of times) and gotten away with it.  However, once you do, your life will consist of hanging out in the 'rinth, because it doesn't take long for everyone to find out what you did. (Especially so, given the fact that it takes a -long- time to develop the skills necessary for a successful assassination, and during that time, you're going to meet a lot of people who will conveniently remember you later on and spread the rumor around like they've known you personally for years and years).

On a slightly different note, it's also very difficult to run a corrupt militia PC.  I've played under 10-12 different templars, and it's virtually the same with every one:  any hint that you're doing something, and it's your ass.  And again, it's ridiculously easy for them to find out about anything that's not on the up-and-up.

So...some ideas to fix the situation, since simply griping is tacky:

1.  Change the militia PC schedule to reflect that it's a -military- organization.  Have militia PCs on a rotating "duty" schedule where maybe for one month a year they pull police duty.  During the rest of the time, they have nothing to do with it and just train for war, which is what they ought to be doing anyway.  This will force PC victims of crime to find other ways of getting rid of unwanted elements...the possibilities are endless, and much more amusing than contacting Joe Militia and sending him a pickpocket's sdesc over the Way.

2.  Fix the sneak bug such that you can sneak by aggressive NPCs.

3.  Fix the mdesc/sdesc situation.  I honestly have no idea what would be a good fix for this, but just being able to look, copy and paste is way too powerful.

These may not be the best ideas, but it's a start on something that obviously needs to be changed.  Currently, playing a criminal PC is essentially just a fun way to pass some time between serious characters...because expecting anything serious from a life of more than inconsequential crime is just foolhardy under current conditions.

[EvilRoeSlade]

So I've been playing a sneaky fellow lately, and getting into some trouble with the law.

I must say, I do like the crim code. Soldier patrols are tough but fair and it's generally fun to stage well thought out crimes and a real rush when you are about to get caught because your escape route went wobbly.

My one pain point is the length of time one remains wanted after executing a crime. It's like wait it out hell. I understand why its needed, , but I was considering a mild change.

What if we cut down the amount of wanted time for committed crime, but instead logged instances of crimes and created a report for militia and Templar PCs.

The report could only be accessed by miltia and would simply be a run down of the crime, where it occured and witness accounts. So like:

> CrimReport

***City Crime Report****

Theif - Templars way - A tall figure in a black hooded cloak - IC/OC Datetime - Escaped

Assault - Caravan's way - The blue-haired, dark eyed elf - IC/OC Datetime - Apprehended

Spice Traffic - Main Gate - The red-haired, light-eyed elf - IC/OC Datetime - Killed


***End City Crime Report****

This would allow militia to patrol high crime areas more often, and let militia investigate and seek out criminals brazen enough to attempt crimes without proper disguise.

What do you think? To be fair, I'd even like this if we left crim-flag timeout times as is.

First of all, there is no proper disguise.  There is no disguise period.

Second of all, what you are suggesting is to substitute a major annoyance for a major unplayability.  Having to spend two hours doing nothing because you're wanted is a major annoyance.  But if every templar in the game now has your sdesc because you got wanted once, then playing a criminal is nothing more than a joke.

[Maybe42or54]

Saving lives is uncharted territory with Halaster, let's just stand back, smile, and wish him good luck?

Now get to work Hollastar.

[jmordetsky]

First of all, there is no proper disguise.  There is no disguise period.

Second of all, what you are suggesting is to substitute a major annoyance for a major unplayability.  Having to spend two hours doing nothing because you're wanted is a major annoyance.  But if every templar in the game now has your sdesc because you got wanted once, then playing a criminal is nothing more than a joke.

If you wore a cloak or a face wrap, why would they have your sdesc? The example shows two sdescs adn a cloak sdescs.

If you walked into a store, unmasked and put two shots into the clerk, while there were 50 onlookers, the police would get a description of you, a location of the crime and the time.

If you were wearing a mask, they would get a vague description of you in it's place (IE your size, maybe eye color).

To me, unless you kill someone in a tavern all this does is give indicators to the militia as to where they should patrol, and a rundown of blatant crimes which is realistic.

I'm of the opinion that playing a criminal is too easy, save for the OOC annoyance.

[Folker]

I really dont understand the problem. First of all, the recorded crimes feature would simply allow militia and templars to know what they would know already in most cases, provided they were playing during the time. At worst, this feature would discourage pc criminals to wait untill templars/pc militia log off to pull off their crimes, which is a fairly ooc thing to do. And second of all, the proposed feature is so easy to outmanuever it really loses any of it's use. It records your mdesc, which in most cases is already shrouded by a claok. So what are you afraid of? That they'll pull everyone with the same cloak into jail? Even if they actually did that, it's easy enough to fix it by changing your cloaks.