Bash Idea

[Marc]

In the spirit of the last post, a bash idea:

Bash is fairly effective at the moment, putting your opponent at a disadvantage, but it also has a few problems:

Wait-states shouldn't compile with bash.  As it is if someone kicks you and then you bash them, they are stuck in a very very long-wait state.  The longer of the two wait-states should be used.

Bash should inflict a wait-state.  Unless your opponent is already lagged, bashing them will not keep them down as they can stand up as quick as they can type "st".  The wait-state for the bashee should be around 1/2 of the wait-state for the basher.

Bash should work vs prone/sitting targets at a significant penalty (50ish%).  However, the wait-states for this shouldn't compile either, just the longest one applies.

Bash should use a formula of height over weight to determine success in addition to a skill check.  It would take height divided by weight to get a number and the smaller that number, the better chance the target has to reverse or simply not go down.

What this would mean:

If you bash someone, they will stay down for more then a nano-second (including npcs!) but if you are bashed while in a wait-state, you wont be completely screwed.

If there are three people with shields surrounding one target, they have a chance to keep them down without having to time the next bash right as the target stands and before they flee.

Stout dwarves wont be rolled over by lanky elves quite so much.

Feedback?

[Eclipse]

Bash knocks people off their feet. Why should it work on sitting/prone individuals if that's the target of the bash?

Personally, I think the system works fine as it is. Bash is difficult to handle and size/weight are taken into account. On the topic of three individuals holding down a target with bash, that's what subdue is there for. Have one of the assistants hold down the target while you beat him to death or something. Anyways, if three people are trying to hold somebody down with bash, they would realistically knock one another around as well.

[Marc]

Bash knocks people off their feet. Why should it work on sitting/prone individuals if that's the target of the bash?

Personally, I think the system works fine as it is. Bash is difficult to handle and size/weight are taken into account. On the topic of three individuals holding down a target with bash, that's what subdue is there for. Have one of the assistants hold down the target while you beat him to death or something. Anyways, if three people are trying to hold somebody down with bash, they would realistically knock one another around as well.

How does it work fine if you bash someone and they can stand up and run away and you are stuck for 20 seconds?  How is that realistic that someone just got knocked on their ass and can some how orient themselves and dash off before you can blink?

And the subdue idea doesn't work because subdue doesn't work in combat.

The reason I see a need for bash to work against a sitting target(at a big negative to succeed, and I never said it should work vs prone) is simple, but here is an exercise for you to try eclipse.  

Go get an old metal trash can lid, the kind with the handle in the middle.  Now try to swing it at knee level.  Can you do it?  

You wont be able to get the same force as you could if you, say, charged at someone, but then they are already down and wont be able to back up or dodge too easily from that position. I am not saying it should be easy, but why impossible?

If no one is keen on that idea though, add a wait-state for stand in combat so someone cannot simply st;flee;n;n;n;n when they are ICly surrounded.  If you say just guard exits, thats pretty hard unless you have at least one extra person who is VERY good at guarding (hard to stop a running target) for every exit available, in addition to anyone actually in combat.  Personally I see that situation as flawed.

And size and weight are taken into account, you are right, but do you really think a 12 ten-stone dwarf with their low center of gravity is going to get bowled over nearly every time by the 90 inch, 7 ten-stone elf, no matter who actually did the bashing?  That is how it is now.

[Armaddict]

This is somewhat unrelated, but this thread reminded me of this idea.  Now, I'm an advocate for half-giants, I think they're vastly underpowered from what they -should- be.  Sure, they can hit hard, but their agility penalties make them sitting ducks for even a single fighter to pick off.  They just don't get enough bang for their buck.

My idea was that due to the half-giants enormous size (this would probably go in on certain animals, as well), a blow from them would be staggering.  So maybe there could be a small chance with a heavy blow from a giant-size creature that it would knock you over as if you've been bashed?  I just don't see people taking a solid hit from a half-giant like a stone column, immovable even under such tremendous force.

I dunno, I could just be over-sympathizing with the giants.  I get tired of them -having- to use the subdue/kill combo in order to be as big a monster as they should be.

[Delerak]

No way.  Half-giants are slow, they are strong.  That's what they are.  They are not supposed to be good in the beginning.  When a half-giant gets good with his skills, he is a force to be reckoned with.  Making them a stronger race isn't going to do anything but piss off the people who would rather play humans and elves.  The only reason they are bred is so that they can go into war and get killed for the templars, simple as that.  Kind of like the reason the U.S. military wants everyone to join, let the commoners go bleed on the battlefield and the generals sit here smoking cigars and planning stragetic movements.

[Armaddict]

...That's my point, Dan.  They're slow and strong.  They're monsters in combat. Only right now, they're not.   I'm suggesting that we make them into what they should be.  Scary.