Crim-flag a punishment to player, not the character?

[Rhyden]

The kind of defeats the purpose of playing the game for fun doesn't it?  And if you are someone who has to commit crimes for a living... uh like I said you might as well not play at all if this is what you are going to be doing the whole time right?

Well then in that case, so does solo RPing. Your character dying makes the game a little bit less fun as well. I say, tuff. Deal with it. The prison cells don't have to be boring, liven it up a bit, spam some thinks in there, hone in on your solo RPing skills, contact a friend. Just don't whine because a character who mugs three citizens, steals a pocketful of 'sids or breaks into a merchant's house gets sent to prison for 1, maybe even 2 OOC hours. Geeze.

[Original Posteur]

Just don't whine because a character who mugs three citizens, steals a pocketful of 'sids or breaks into a merchant's house gets sent to prison for 1, maybe even 2 OOC hours. Geeze.

The problem is characters who try to steal a little dagger and get sent to prison for 1, maybe even 2 OOC hours.  I can accept the punishment if it's a big crime, but something that small?

[Tamarin]

Uh...that's a pretty small punishment, dood, considering what else can happen to you for larger crimes.

[Rhyden]

Just don't whine because a character who mugs three citizens, steals a pocketful of 'sids or breaks into a merchant's house gets sent to prison for 1, maybe even 2 OOC hours. Geeze.

The problem is characters who try to steal a little dagger and get sent to prison for 1, maybe even 2 OOC hours.  I can accept the punishment if it's a big crime, but something that small?

Yeah, that's really a minor punishment. In North America (which is a whole lot less harsh, in my opinion, than Zalanthas) one would pay a large fine or serve several hours of community service or go to jail for a few days for stealing some money or breaking into a house. In Zalanthas, you go to jail for half a day to a day, in the shade, with edible food, even. Trust me, some time in a Zalanthan cell is light. I think normal Zalanthan punishment should be cutting off a hand or fining you most of your earnings for commiting crimes but this would make it impossible for thieves to make a living, unlike the system we have now, where you just gotta take a time out (if you're caught).

[Maybe42or54]

Tattoos.

A tattoo to signify your a thief.
A tattoo to show a killer.
A tattoo to show a brawler.


That is what we need.

[Marauder Moe]

Haha!  Tattoos!  Brilliant idea.  I think it's make more sense to be a Tuluk thing, though.  In Allanak I think it'd be more likely for people to lose eyes, ears, and fingers.

[I]

I haven't really been reading this thread, but from what  I got it was about jail being boring. I am usually alright in jail for a small period of time. After a while, though, I start to get bored. I think it would really improve the jails if more than one PC was put in a cell, this way you can interact with somebody and have easier chances to show how your character is reacting to being jailed. And perhaps there should be an automated mercy feature which would stop you from attacking your cell mate, something simple like 'This is not a good desicion based on your situation.'

[jhunter]

Naw. If someone wants to do it, it should be possible to kill a cellmate. There should be some sort of IC consequence even if there isn't any pc templars on though.

[Larrath]

Jailcell brawling code.

[Maybe42or54]

Put an old NPC that has been in there so long she has forgot her own name.
Shee could mumble, try to figure out what day it is, count the bricks, piss herself when she hears whipping, and a whole bunch of other stuff.

We could make the prison a communal thing. Where there is a cell that goes along the wall of the room, with the weapon racks and articles of torture in the middle. So criminals can watch other fuckers get tortured (for more pm me or tell me to make anotehr thread). We can then have scripts for it. With randomly generated npcs and flavor messages.

That is where a fire is kept going, which never gets fed. With branding irons (May be made out of something else) all the way around it. Each one with a different symbol on it, waiting for its next criminal.

I think someone getting tat'ed with the symbol of thief to be a 'nakki thing. Since it is a straightforward marking. And Tulukians already have licenses and whatnot.

[flurry]

Put an old NPC that has been in there so long she has forgot her own name.
Shee could mumble, try to figure out what day it is, count the bricks, piss herself when she hears whipping, and a whole bunch of other stuff.
.

This one I think is a really really good idea.  It would be neat if you got thrown in jail and there were an NPC with a talk script on it.  That would add to the flavor and also keep you entertained for a little bit of that wait.  I like it.

[Rindan]

I think the original poster has in some regards a fair point.  Jail time I have no problem with.  The time you spend 'avoiding' guards on the other hand is painful.  It isn't painful so much in the fact that you are wanted for a while.  It is painful because the ways to avoid being caught once wanted are so few.  All of the ways to avoid being caught that I know of are border line code abuse and for the most part roughly the LAST way I would go about avoiding being caught.  Further, all the good ways to avoid being caught code wise don't work.

If I were to make any changes, I would start by throwing in more alleyways, more rooftops, and maybe even some sewers.  I would have these areas extend all the way from the 'rinth, to the elementalist quarters, and into the commons.  I would set all soldiers to patrol at a fairly quick pace of maybe one room movement every minute to 30 seconds or so.  Further, make those patrols set routs, instead of random directional spam (it should be noted that this is already done to an extent).  Get rid of static soldiers all together except in obvious spots where they would always be guarding.  <I>Fix sneak</I>.

The idea would be if you were smart and timed your movements right, you could use alleyways and rooftops to get from the commons all the way to the 'rinth.  This has a twofold bonus.  Not only can your pick pocket avoid jail time without resorting to the silly methods you have to use now, but your pick pocket can get to a place where it would make sense to hide out in.  Most criminals who commit crimes never find their way to the 'rinth because it is safer to do something silly like go into a shop and stand there for two hours.  As it stands, the 'rinth is great for committing shady dealings and the like, but utterly worthless once you are wanted as you will never get there.  The 'rinth could use more criminals.  Making it possible to get there while wanted would throw the criminal population a bone.

If you wanted to get real fancy, you could make it so that when a serious crime is committed, soldiers start to patrol the alleyways in a limited way.  This preserves the seriousness of committing an act of murder and makes it harder to escape then a simple fail pick pocket attempt, but still gives people an avenue of escape.

[Angela Christine]

The punishment is a compromise.  


It is slightly annoying to the player OOC, but shockingly light to the character IC.  For most petty crimes you will spend less than a day in prision, and then be sent on your way -- having your weapons and certain contraban items seized is a minor fine.  A desperate and inept thief probably doesn't have anything but a couple cheap daggers as weapons anyway.  (If you have lockpicks on you when you are arrested they shouldn't just take your picks, there should also be an additional sentence for being in possession of illegal items in the first place.)  The only real worry is that a templar may take notice of you before you are released.

You decide how dull being wanted or imprisoned is going to be OOCly.  In many ways it is no worse than being in a restrictive clan like the 'Byn where you may be forced by a schedual to spend time "alone" because no other clan PCs are around.  If you don't want to solo-roleplay you do have the option to keep the game window open but turn most of your attention to the TV or a book or something, just keep an eye on the screen (in case something happens) and maybe throw out an emote every 20 minutes or so to keep people from thinking you've gone linkdead or AFK.  

If you don't want to idle there are things you can do to make it more interesting.

Instead of surrendering or hiding you could try to escape.  I once found a bolt in the desert, and since I didn't use a crossbow I tried to sell it when I got back to town only to become wanted for trying to sell a militia weapon -- I didn't even know militia had their own ammunition!  My character panicked and made a run for it, successfully making it from the Salaar stall in the bazzar all the way to the dubious safety of the 'rinth despite the fact that she was not expecting to become wanted and had not scouted escape routes ahead of time (a little while later something in the 'rinth killed her, so she probably would have been better off getting arrested, but that's pannick for you).  My point is that it is possible to escape, if you want to risk it.  The 'rinth or other lawless areas are bound to be more interesting than sitting alone in your apartment or a bare cell.

If you have an apartment or other secure space, I'd be tempted to dump my valuables at home and then simply surrender.  It is unlikely that a burglar will strike in the 20 or 30 minutes you'll be in jail.


Or you could simply commit your crimes in a more lawless area to begin with.  There are plenty of places where lawmen don't patrol and your victims will try to simply attack you rather than trying to arrest you.  



Yes, the punnishments the character earns will also affect the player, that is inevitable.  Actions have consequences.  If my ranger (or his kank) becomes exhausted in the wilderness durring bad weather, then I am going to be stuck waiting a looong time for the stamina to regenerate to the point where I can get moving again because outdoor wilderness regeneration rates suck, and I'll  probably stuck in an area much less interesting and much more dangerous than either an apartment or a cell.  That code isn't designed to punnish me as a player, it is just the natural consequense of my PCs actions.


Angela Christine

[Jarod550]

I haven't really been reading this thread, but from what  I got it was about jail being boring. I am usually alright in jail for a small period of time. After a while, though, I start to get bored. I think it would really improve the jails if more than one PC was put in a cell, this way you can interact with somebody and have easier chances to show how your character is reacting to being jailed. And perhaps there should be an automated mercy feature which would stop you from attacking your cell mate, something simple like 'This is not a good desicion based on your situation.'

You can, I've been dumped into jail and had a few others with me.

It's just that sometimes that cell goes unused by pcs for long periods of time, you gotta be "lucky" to get in with them.

[Zharal]

Hmmm...I don't see anything wrong with the crime code, its harsh but fair in  many ways.. Go to Redstorm and see what happens when you break the law.  Really if ya don't like the results of committing a crime, then don't play a criminal. I believe it's set up in a fashion that helps to protect the lawful players from abusive twinks and newbs. This is a very, very old debate and I seriously don't think its going to change, lease I hope it doesn't.

[Jarod550]

The thing I want to know is how someone can SAP or BACKSTAB someone in supposedly populated areas without being crim flagged, I've seen folks do it, walk out of the room into a room with a guard and nothing.

Jarod

PS What happens in red storm if you break the law, I think that's the only city I haven't

[Zharal]

Thats IC info, go find out...

[Jarod550]

Thats IC info, go find out...

I will with the next character I hate... My current, I'm in love with...

Jarod smooches and hugs his character, squeezing it fondly

Jarod

[Agent_137]

Inkhore: That Red Storm information is NOT IC INFO. please do not say something is unless you really KNOW IT IS.

The Red Storm Militia are a rough-looking but capable force, and they have a somewhat erratic view on some things. Generally speaking, if you are caught committing a crime in Red Storm Village, your life is at stake. The militia recognize that not all outbursts need to be punished by having your head on a stake, however; brawling in the tavern is normally something that is ignored, though not if it turns to heavy fighting. The general rule in Red Storm Village is that you leave everyone else alone, and they leave you alone. It is rumored that several of the high-ranking militia were former gladiators or slaves.

Jarod550: You might get better answers to your questions if you check in the obvious spots first. Like the "What you would know if you were from Red storm" document.

[Agent_137]

Inkhore: That SAP information is NOT IC INFO. please do not say something is unless you really KNOW IT IS.

Sap is an excellent method of attack if one's presence ought to be unnoticed by soldiers of city-states. (Of course, the ensuing fight can attract attention.)

Jarod550: You might get better answers to your questions if you check in the obvious spots first. Like the "The Help file on SAP." You can even do it in game by typing HELP SAP.

[Maybe42or54]

The thing I want to know is how someone can SAP or BACKSTAB someone in supposedly populated areas without being crim flagged, I've seen folks do it, walk out of the room into a room with a guard and nothing.

Jarod

PS What happens in red storm if you break the law, I think that's the only city I haven't

They do that because.. unless someone was watching you intently, then they probably missed the guy getting smacked since you only hit him once. The following attacks really get people pissed off though.

[Agent_137]

Right. But if they're unconcious or dead, they can't really get pissed off, can they, and then who notices?

[Zharal]

Technically you are right Agent_137, so I will refrain from making comments in the future on such matters.

[Jarod550]

Inkhore: That Red Storm information is NOT IC INFO. please do not say something is unless you really KNOW IT IS.

The Red Storm Militia are a rough-looking but capable force, and they have a somewhat erratic view on some things. Generally speaking, if you are caught committing a crime in Red Storm Village, your life is at stake. The militia recognize that not all outbursts need to be punished by having your head on a stake, however; brawling in the tavern is normally something that is ignored, though not if it turns to heavy fighting. The general rule in Red Storm Village is that you leave everyone else alone, and they leave you alone. It is rumored that several of the high-ranking militia were former gladiators or slaves.

Jarod550: You might get better answers to your questions if you check in the obvious spots first. Like the "What you would know if you were from Red storm" document.

I meant the question more as, if you steal something, get caught, do they still attempt to subdue you where at least nosave will save you from being "instantly" killed by mega guards.

Not to say that you won't get killed later

Help files give you very vague explainations when it comes to stuff like this.

Jarod

[Yokunama]

Inkhore: That Red Storm information is NOT IC INFO. please do not say something is unless you really KNOW IT IS.

The Red Storm Militia are a rough-looking but capable force, and they have a somewhat erratic view on some things. Generally speaking, if you are caught committing a crime in Red Storm Village, your life is at stake. The militia recognize that not all outbursts need to be punished by having your head on a stake, however; brawling in the tavern is normally something that is ignored, though not if it turns to heavy fighting. The general rule in Red Storm Village is that you leave everyone else alone, and they leave you alone. It is rumored that several of the high-ranking militia were former gladiators or slaves.

Jarod550: You might get better answers to your questions if you check in the obvious spots first. Like the "What you would know if you were from Red storm" document.

I meant the question more as, if you steal something, get caught, do they still attempt to subdue you where at least nosave will save you from being "instantly" killed by mega guards.

Not to say that you won't get killed later

Help files give you very vague explainations when it comes to stuff like this.

Jarod

Usually, they attempt to subdue you first.

You can also use nosave to willingly surrender your character if he/she has committed a crime, and wishes to give him/herself up to the law. (This can be a good idea, since resisting arrest is not looked upon highly.)

Note:
Nosaving when soldiers are trying to subdue you will allow them to do
so, sometimes preventing them from attacking.