Disarm skill

[Rindan]

I don't understand following up a disarm by grabbing the weapon off the ground either.  If you knocked the weapon out of your opponent's hand, it didn't just fall right at your feet.  It flew in who knows what direction.  Not to mention, YOU ARE STILL BUSY FIGHTING.   :shock:

There is nothing unrealistic about knocking away a guys weapon then diving for it.  Sheathe one of your weapons and typing 'get weapon' is pretty much fair game.  Sure, you are busy fighting, but the code takes this into account penalizes you when you go for their weapon.  Don't like the idea of having your weapon taken in the middle of a battle?  Carry more weapons.  I don't know about you, but nothing would bring a bigger smile to my face then getting my weapon knocked out of my hand, having the other dumb bastard for it giving me a few free whacks, then drawing the other knife I had stashed away.  That leaves me still armed and the other guy bleeding good and proper for reaching for a weapon on the ground in the middle of a fight.

[Maybe42or54]

Well, disarm is one very abusable and cheesy skill already. Why are we trying to make it more cheesy?

Mostly explains what I think on that matter.

Seeing of spamming of "disarm;get all" stiill frustruates me.

That's why you carry a lot of feathers into battle. Drop them as you go.

Then when they disarm: get all

Code Select Expand

Someone attacks the twink as he stops to pick something up.
Twink gets a feather.
Someone attacks the twink as he stops to pick something up.
Twink gets a feather.
Someone attacks the twink as he stops to pick something up.
Twink gets a feather.
Someone attacks the twink as he stops to pick something up.
Twink gets a feather.
Someone attacks the twink as he stops to pick something up.
Twink gets a feather.
Someone attacks the twink as he stops to pick something up.
Twink gets a feather.

[Kalden]

Sheathe one of your weapons and typing 'get weapon' is pretty much fair game.

Who really sheathes one of their weapons first?  :wink:

[joyofdiscord]

Just because it helps in these sort of recurring (and recurring (and recurring)) discussions to remember that there -has- been at least one IMM who's weighed in with their opinion, before rampant accusations of twinkery get thrown around:
From this thread.

Last word I heard on this "disarm;get sword" is a huge nono. That is, if you don't have a free hand to pick up the other weapon if I remember right.

I have no problem with "disarm; get sword", personally. You take an appropriate amount of risk when you dive for a weapon on the ground for me to consider this perfectly acceptable play. And I don't consider it either an unrealistic tactic (ie. it makes sense wanting to have your opponent's weapon), nor do I consider it an unrealistic physical possibility (ie., I can conceive of situations where I could take my opponent's weapon from them during the battle)

-- X

[Ritley]

lol. You would only be able to do it if you have a second hand free. This would encourage players to use one weapon instead of two or a shield style.

[Anael]

You mean with a weapon etwo'ed? That occupies both hands in most cases, unless emoted otherwise (and there's no hardcoded way to find out if you do emote it as a one handed style or not).

Disarm is fine as it is.

[Aldiel]

I like the idea, but it should only be possible if your character is unarmed or wielding a single weapon or shield.  It would give reason to wield one arm as apposed to two, something that is far more common in RL then IG.

[theebie]

I've seen very few, if any PCs who fought with one weapon and an empty hand.  Most people go two weapon style, or weapon and shield style.  How are you supposed to catch a third object with no free hands?

That's exactly what I'm saying.  If you're wielding one weapon in two hands and you change to one hand, -then- pick up the dropped weapon, and then wield it in your secondary hand and proceed to dual wield then perhaps it kind of makes sense.  Otherwise you're just abusing the code.

make it possible only if you have one hand free ? how about that ?:)

edit: hehe, just read the thread to the end and saw that someoneelse already suggested.

[Moofassa]

Seems a little farfetched to me.. even for a fantasy game. I myself am a gold-sash, ninth degree in Wing Chun Kung-fu. I could probably snatch someones weapon from their hand, but doubtful that I could slam it from their hands, causing it to fly towards the ground at fairly high speeds, and then grab it....



How about a "snatch" command. Instead of a disarm-->grab, it's simply snatch.

Code Select Expand

>snatch
You attempt to snatch the smelly old mans cane from his hands, missing horribly, leaving your wrist open.

Something like snatch seems a little more realistic to me.

[Ritley]

Seems a little farfetched to me.. even for a fantasy game. I myself am a gold-sash, ninth degree in Wing Chun Kung-fu. I could probably snatch someones weapon from their hand, but doubtful that I could slam it from their hands, causing it to fly towards the ground at fairly high speeds, and then grab it....



How about a "snatch" command. Instead of a disarm-->grab, it's simply snatch.

Code Select Expand

>snatch
You attempt to snatch the smelly old mans cane from his hands, missing horribly, leaving your wrist open.


Something like snatch seems a little more realistic to me.

Fine. Perhaps a snatch command then. However if we had this who would use disarm?

[Morrolan]

People who hadn't branched snatch yet.

[Maybe42or54]

How about a "snatch" command. Instead of a disarm-->grab, it's simply snatch.

Code Select Expand

>snatch
You attempt to snatch the smelly old mans cane from his hands, missing horribly, leaving your wrist open.

Something like snatch seems a little more realistic to me.

I'd rather not, just so I don't see this...

Code Select Expand

>snatch
You attempt to snatch the smelly old mans jagged-edged obsidian warsword from his hands, grabbing the blade by the.. blade, you now control the sword.

[theebie]

I'd rather not, just so I don't see this...

>snatch
You attempt to snatch the smelly old mans jagged-edged obsidian warsword from his hands, grabbing the blade by the.. blade, you now control the sword.

You attempt to snatch the smelly old mans jagged-edged obsidian warsword from his hands, using your blade to push his to the side and ripping it off his hands at the hilt, you now control the sword.

go watch a jet-li movie, man :)

[Cuusardo]

Hollywood has its own magicks.  Bruce Lee couldn't even do the stuff some people are suggesting here.

[Seeker]

Don't short-sell Bruce Lee, babe.  Never.


Seeker

[Cuusardo]

I'm not short selling him, believe me.  I just don't think that he could snatch a weapon out of someone else's hand when his own were full.  

I also don't think he could fly through the air from tree to tree, chasing after someone else who was doing the same thing.  Bruce Lee was THE man (and Jackie Chan comes a close second) but they're still human.

[Moofassa]

I'm not short selling him, believe me.  I just don't think that he could snatch a weapon out of someone else's hand when his own were full.

D'uh, you'd have to have a free hand, most likely your primary one too.

*smacks cuusardo*

And as for the not believe Bruce Lee.
I can snatch things from peoples hands when im sparring, but I need to hit them hard enough to stun them first, or severly thwack their wrists..... more complicated than you think.

[Intrepid]

Fencing really changes your view toward armed combat.  Hollywood has
really poisoned our minds when it comes to views on melee fighting,
leading many to believe that an incoming hand to grab a weapon is
faster and has superior reach over the whip of a blade, which is an even
simpler manuver than a parry and places the would-be victim in a
position where he/she could riposte, which is a followup strike--usually a
thrust.

In other words...you shouldn't have a hand if you attempt this.  Even
against the wielder of a longknife, your reach isn't far enough to justify
trying this move unless you're absolutely desperate and have no other
choice, such as having lost your weapon.  But even if you somehow
reached the weapon hand, your hand is vulnerable to being sliced up to
the extent that you won't get another opportunity to try.

For the curious, I would suggest watching footage of fencing matches
sometime.  The speed at which many of these individuals move, even at
a mediocre level, is a good indicator of what someone trying to grab a
weapon with their hands would be up against.

[Cuusardo]

Fencing is HARD!  I tried the half-baked version that they have at Ren Fest, and I lost badly.  Swinging a rapier isn't as easy as it looks, especially when you have to keep one hand behind your back at all times.  

I won't even get into how hard it was for me to just pick up the bigger swords and such that they have on display there in other booths.  Bone weapons are lighter than metal, but I'm sure obsidian ones would be pretty close to that kind of weight.  The best I could manage comfortably was a shortsword, and I didn't even get the chance to try one in each hand, or holding a shield with it.

Staves, on the other hand, I used to be pretty good with.  I used to have a bamboo staff, and that was pretty challenging at first.  Very light, hurts like hell when it hits, but it at least 90% of the time it occupies both hands.  Unfortunately the staff I have now is solid oak, and it's a lot heavier and unwieldy.

I think if you've never picked up a melee weapon before, it's definitely worth giving a try.  It can give you great insight on how to emote combat stuff.

[Intrepid]

Fencing is HARD! I tried the half-baked version that they have at Ren Fest, and I lost badly. Swinging a rapier isn't as easy as it looks, especially when you have to keep one hand behind your back at all times.

Makes me want to take it up for real, though.

It's a really humbling experience, believe me.  I had so many welts in
college that people thought my SO was abusing me.  Nevertheless, it's
a great way to exercise your reflexes and awareness.

[Ghost]

My aikido teacher snatched a sword off my hands once.  Probably I could have kept the weapon if I really wanted, but... Well, I was swinging the sword in a half-assed way and ..oh... did I mention it was a wooden sword?

To be honest, I don't think we should have anything like it.  Zalanthan way of fight is not some kind of martial art that is both effective and aesthetic.  It is just the brutal way of fight.

[Intrepid]

That's just it though--you said you were swinging it in a half-assed way.
It takes only a change in angle to skewer in incoming hand when they're
reaching for you, and the reach of a weapon gives a significant advantage
unless you opponent has extremely long arms.

[Moofassa]

Kung-Fu Explanation as to how rediculously difficult a snatch would be for an alert attacker who is moderatly skilled.

This is brief.. and hard to explain unless I showed someone BUT!

1. I dodge to the right side of a thrust attack, ie, a dagger or sword. So the weapon is now to my left side, preferably low chest to abdomen height.
2. My left elbow goes down towards their weapon-arm elbow in a heavy chopping motion.
3. My other elbow slams into their chest in what is called a Lan-sao.

This all leaves their weapon arm either broken from number 2, or severly disabled, while #3 knocks them back and attempts to wind them, allowing me sufficient time to finish the disarm.

NOW! If i were to execute that properly, I would probably only succeed in disarming them, and continuing to pummel them.

The only way I would be able to "Snatch" would be to, forget #3 and try to disable the arm with one motion, snatching with the other, which would require REDICULOUSLY fast movements, which would probably result in the attacker flicking their wrist and slicing my hand off.


I actually went and tried this with my sifu for you guys. That's the best I can explain as to why it wouldn't really work.

[Maybe42or54]

1. I dodge to the right side of a thrust attack, ie, a dagger or sword. So the weapon is now to my left side, preferably low chest to abdomen height.
2. My left elbow goes down towards their weapon-arm elbow in a heavy chopping motion.
3. My other elbow slams into their chest in what is called a Lan-sao.

The main problem. Most pcs aren't trained in Kung-fu. They are taught by failure.

[Moofassa]

Agreed. Which is an obvious addition to the negative side of a snatch command. Unless they implemented a martial arts guild. NEVER! NEVER!