Remove Sleep-Healing

[Raesanos]

I think the idea of changing how you get healed, rather than making it simply harder, is interesting. What if you didn't heal from sleeping, but bandaging was significantly easier, so a decent healer would have a very high chance of helping you out? I like ideas that are more realistic without too much hassle. Don't take this as a suggestion that we're considering any such change at the moment.

[HardCarbon]

I think the idea of changing how you get healed, rather than making it simply harder, is interesting. What if you didn't heal from sleeping, but bandaging was significantly easier, so a decent healer would have a very high chance of helping you out? I like ideas that are more realistic without too much hassle. Don't take this as a suggestion that we're considering any such change at the moment.

 A note..   cost.. bandages are expensive....    Perhaps make bandaging/healing  a  HOT affect??  is... if a healer is careing for you in an appropriate place.. you heal faster?

[Larrath]

Making bandaging easier and making people need to depend on them (and possibly NPC physicians in some clans) would be good.
Bandages aren't that expensive now that you can salvage bandages from useless crap.

I don't think this would harm playability too much, either.  Without bandaging, it would be possible to heal super-serious wounds at up to 2 hitpoints per regen tick, so it would take a long time but not be impossible.

Also, I'd like to see another change: if someone is bandaged and they enter combat within two IC hours of being bandaged, there would be a chance of their bandage getting torn out and dealing half of the damage the bandage healed.
This would prevent people bandaging on the battlefield only to leap back in, which could replace five second naps between gith-hunting.  It would also make magickal healing more desireable, because when a magicker fixes you up you can jump right back in.

[HardCarbon]

Ahhh nice change.. I just recall bandage making as one of those .. 'useless' skills where its cheaper to just buy the fecking things.

Making bandaging easier and making people need to depend on them (and possibly NPC physicians in some clans) would be good.
Bandages aren't that expensive now that you can salvage bandages from useless crap.

I don't think this would harm playability too much, either.  Without bandaging, it would be possible to heal super-serious wounds at up to 2 hitpoints per regen tick, so it would take a long time but not be impossible.

Also, I'd like to see another change: if someone is bandaged and they enter combat within two IC hours of being bandaged, there would be a chance of their bandage getting torn out and dealing half of the damage the bandage healed.
This would prevent people bandaging on the battlefield only to leap back in, which could replace five second naps between gith-hunting.  It would also make magickal healing more desireable, because when a magicker fixes you up you can jump right back in.

[Salt Merchant]

Why is that a bad thing? Shouldn't most people avoid danger? I think it'd be a good thing if people who normally wouldn't be so reckless, no longer jumped headlong into harms way.

Makes me wonder if you play a noble or templar and are eager for new characters to abuse.  :lol:  Do you want Arm to turn into a population of tavern sitters? Eliminating sleep-healing is no different that slashing people's hitpoints by 40%, really, except that you'd have a few walking corpses around.

[Larrath]

Why is that a bad thing? Shouldn't most people avoid danger? I think it'd be a good thing if people who normally wouldn't be so reckless, no longer jumped headlong into harms way.

Makes me wonder if you play a noble or templar and are eager for new characters to abuse.  :lol:  Do you want Arm to turn into a population of tavern sitters? Eliminating sleep-healing is no different that slashing people's hitpoints by 40%, really, except that you'd have a few walking corpses around.

I would like Arm to not be a place where people can go hunt until they get beaten down to 30-some hitpoints out of their max of 110, sleep in a cave for five minutes and then kill another fifty scrabs, giths, vestrics and whatever else they run into.  I would like Arm to be a place where serious injuries are taken seriously by everyone, not only because it's realistic roleplay because they actually -would- be serious.

[Anael]

That's one thing I like on how SoI or Harshlands work. About the only thing, actually.

[jhunter]

Why is that a bad thing? Shouldn't most people avoid danger? I think it'd be a good thing if people who normally wouldn't be so reckless, no longer jumped headlong into harms way.

Makes me wonder if you play a noble or templar and are eager for new characters to abuse.  :lol:  Do you want Arm to turn into a population of tavern sitters? Eliminating sleep-healing is no different that slashing people's hitpoints by 40%, really, except that you'd have a few walking corpses around.

I would like Arm to not be a place where people can go hunt until they get beaten down to 30-some hitpoints out of their max of 110, sleep in a cave for five minutes and then kill another fifty scrabs, giths, vestrics and whatever else they run into.  I would like Arm to be a place where serious injuries are taken seriously by everyone, not only because it's realistic roleplay because they actually -would- be serious.

I'd prefer that it's open for people to display their roleplaying ability rather than have the code enforce that for them.
The people that do this are usually few and far between or new to the game. The imms to a good job of throwing down some consequences for actions like that. I really rarely see it and don't believe it's such an issue.

[jhunter]

I just wanted to add: Remember, the more tightly we cinch everything down with code the less "gray area" there is to rp in. I think SOI went too far in cinching everything down with code and that's mainly why I didn't keep playing it.

I personally like the fact that we have plenty of "gray area" to make our own decisions about how we want to play something. So what if some people choose to play unrealistically? They won't do it for long I'm certain of that.

[Sholdyn]

Although realism is certainly an issue that you can raise on this topic, I think the real goal of something like this should be to add value to one area of the game without taking value away from another. Namely, add value to PC healers, but the only thing your taking away is a script.

So, if removing sleep healing entirely is a bad idea, then are there any other ways to add value to this area of the game? I think some good ideas have already been posted.

[jhunter]

I think that healing via sleep should be slowed down to a rate where it may take you an entire IC day to recover to the point of being able to heal without sleeping. Then, make bandaging a bit less difficult and remove the damage through failure completely. Make it so that a failure just fails to recover any hp instead.

After that, then perhaps come up with a way so that when you are taken down by other sorts of damage...poisons, many small cuts and grazing nicks, etc... things work a bit differently.

[Twilight]

The learning for bandage would need to be rebalanced, because as it stands now it is only balanced really because you get damaged if you fail, but:

(numbers are hypothetical) If you want to increase the usefulness of bandage:  Lets say you are 100HP warrior, and just lost 75 hps.  Your friend then attempts to bandage you, but fails and takes off another 5 hps.  A flag is added to your character "Bandage_30".  You are now at 20 hps.  Your friend tries again, and you loose another 5 hps.  The flag on your character is updated to "Bandage_65".  You are now at 15 hps.  Your friend tries again (it was a big wound) and fails (geez!) and you loose 10 hps!  However, your flag is now "Bandage_103".  You have 5 hps, but now you are regenning while not sleeping, because you have been bandaged up enough.

The way the bandage flag on your character would work is that it when the number on it plus your current hps exeeded your max hps, you would start to regen hps while not sleeping.  Each bandaging attempt would modify this number upwards, whether successful or not (although successful would probably modify it more) such that on average 3 failures would get a human regening again.  Obviously, bigger humanoids such as half giants would normally require more bandaging (because of higher hps).  The flag would stay on your character, through renting, and would either slowly decay, or just get removed entirely once you reach the point at which you can normally heal without sleeping.  Each one point of damage taken would reduce the number by 10, so 10 hps of damage would remove a Bandage_100 flag entirely.  Healing due to the flag would be slower (50%? 25%? 10%?) than normal.

[Salt Merchant]

I would like Arm to not be a place where people can go hunt until they get beaten down to 30-some hitpoints out of their max of 110, sleep in a cave for five minutes and then kill another fifty scrabs, giths, vestrics and whatever else they run into.  I would like Arm to be a place where serious injuries are taken seriously by everyone, not only because it's realistic roleplay because they actually -would- be serious.

Then by all means go ahead and roleplay this way, if you like. Sit in your barracks or wherever and emote messages of pain for a day and a half real-life. And when you get terminally bored with that, avoid all combat like the plague to avoid having to sit the game out for RL days again.

Just don't try to force it on others, especially in the name of realism. What is realism anyway, when you have magickers, defilers, demons and drakes flying around? When you have people telepathically communicating across great distances? When you have half-giants, halflings and mantii claiming portions of the "civilized" world? I don't find fast healing to be such a stretch, especially when it increases playability.

My current character is eight days old and hasn't killed a fecking thing in his life, so I'm not speaking out of a desire to support wilderness rampages and scrab kill sprees. I suspect you'd already be hard pressed to find people behaving the way you describe these days, without making it more difficult for them.

But don't listen to me. Read Halaster's own words instead:

I think the biggest reason we haven't gotten more "gritty" and "realistic" is for playability sake more than anything. I'd rather see people interacting, doing things, driving plots - whatever - and not just laying around having to heal up. Let's face it, who wants to spend 2 hours doing nothing while you heal?

[ale six]

Then by all means go ahead and roleplay this way, if you like. Sit in your barracks or wherever and emote messages of pain for a day and a half real-life. And when you get terminally bored with that, avoid all combat like the plague to avoid having to sit the game out for RL days again.

It's funny you say this. One of my PCs had the unfortunate luck to nearly get herself killed about three times, in a variety of ways. In each instance I -did- take her out of action and lay her up for a number of RL days. I emoted being crippled, walking around with a cane, having scars, emotional trauma, etc. And I enjoyed it. It brought out aspects of the character I really never would have otherwise considered. I didn't do this out of some unwavering homage to realism, I did it because well, the poor girl had just been cuddled by a silt horror (to use an example) and I didn't really feel like she'd get over that in the ten minutes it took me to sleep back to full hp.

The healing rate that sleeping gives you just strikes me as silly. I'd love to see more opportunities for pcs to heal people. But past that, I'd just like to see more people actually roleplaying taking a few IC weeks downtime after taking serious wounds. You never know how fun it can be until you try.

[Salt Merchant]

The healing rate that sleeping gives you just strikes me as silly. I'd love to see more opportunities for pcs to heal people. But past that, I'd just like to see more people actually roleplaying taking a few IC weeks downtime after taking serious wounds. You never know how fun it can be until you try.

For those who like it, go ahead. I've done it once, and although it wasn't horrible, sitting for hours in an empty room wasn't really a great way to pass the time, either. If it happened again and there was some kind of code-enforced waiting period, I'd likely just log off and do something else until it was over. Effectively a mini-death. Joy.

[Stroker]

For those who like it, go ahead. I've done it once, and although it wasn't horrible, sitting for hours in an empty room wasn't really a great way to pass the time, either. If it happened again and there was some kind of code-enforced waiting period, I'd likely just log off and do something else until it was over. Effectively a mini-death. Joy.

Finally, someone points out the futility of this entire proposition: the players cannot be forced into role-playing by means of coded limitations. If anything, the process will LOWER the quality/quantity of role-play, which is already rather unimpressive.

Semper Pax,

Dirr

[jmordetsky]

I don't think I'd like to see sleep heal removed.

I think I'd like to see the following rules though:

1) Very low levels of HP being "harder" to recover from, unless some healing was applied.

2) A chance of Bloodloss and death from critical wounds. As of now, if I get critically injured, I know I'm going to live if nothing finds me. It's not much of a thrill. But if there was a 30% chance I might die, that would be pretty cool.

3) More Mercy. While I'd like to see wounds take longer (not much longer mind you) I'd like to see a Mercy percentage so that I didn't have a chance of complete kicking the shit out of someone in sparring. Like Mercy High, Mercy Low, Mercy. Which stopped combat early if need be, and caused me to flee or disengage or something.