The Problem of Tea

[Larrath]

Tea is fairly common in Allanak and in Tuluk.  It's not extremely expensive, either.  I honestly don't see how Zalanthans could possibly even bring themselves to boil water to make the tea in the first place.

Most Zalanthan fruits are very juicy and could easily be squeezed into fruit juice, but freshly squeezed kalan fruit feels even more un-Zalanthan than mint tea.
It could also be strange if tea prices suddenly went from 20 'sid a cup to 90 'sid a cup.

I do think we should get something other than tea, though.  Does anyone have any ideas?

[amoeba]

What is wrong with Tea?   Tea is nothing more than flavored water, we all drink water. What is the harm of adding more taste to something we drink anyway?  I would think it could be quite common.

[Larrath]

What is wrong with Tea?   Tea is nothing more than flavored water, we all drink water. What is the harm of adding more taste to something we drink anyway?  I would think it could be quite common.

The problem is that you boil water, so you take water for three cups and you get two cups of boiling water.
Tea, in addition to being unusual (and distinctly a 'noble drink'), should at the very least cost realistically.  If a small cup of water costs 18 'sid, why should a cup of tea, which took nearly twice as much water as well as tea herbs, cost the same or a little less?

[Salt Merchant]

Is it truly necessary to bring the water to a boil, or just to heat it up enough?

[amoeba]

The problem is that you boil water, so you take water for three cups and you get two cups of boiling water.

Boy, how long do you boil your water?  Evaporation for as long as it takes to heat water enough for tea is insignificant. Hell water boiled that long would have all the oxygen boiled out and would tase awful.  As far as you know they could be making "Sun Tea" which in a closed container has no evaporation.

Tea, in addition to being unusual (and distinctly a 'noble drink'), should at the very least cost realistically.  If a small cup of water costs 18 'sid, why should a cup of tea, which took nearly twice as much water as well as tea herbs, cost the same or a little less?

Tea is about the least expensive drink possible, short of water.  Far less than Ale.  The flavoring could be as simple as a leaf steeped in the hot water for a few moments.  It doesn't have to be "tea" leaves. Tea is a broad classification of a class of drink.

[Naiona]

If you look at how popular a drink tea is in pretty much every desert culture in the real world, I don't think it is at all unreasonable that it should be popular in Armageddon.

[Scarborough]

You do not necessarily have to heat water up at all to get essence out of plants.  If I put one of my tea bags (irl) in tepid, room-temperature water, it will still release some of it's flavor.  Another real option to make tea is to put the ingrediants inthe container, SEAL IT so none of the moisture is lost and let it sit in the sun.  The water never gets super hot -- just warm -- but enough for the essential oils to be released enough to flavor the water.  And aemoba has another point: you don't have to boil water so that it evaporates.  If I'm heating it, I heat my tea water until it's just barely boiling.

[joyofdiscord]

Making tea also gives a whallop to some of the nasty microbes surely swimming in the average Zalanthan's waterskin (especially by boiling, but sun-teaing couldn't hurt) .

Up with tea!

[Lazloth]

Why not Iced tea?

Ice bushes are uncommon in the desert to my knowledge.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Don't take away tea. It's one of, like, three non-alcoholic drinks in the entire Known World.

[Stroker]

Hell water boiled that long would have all the oxygen boiled out and would tase awful.

That's why Intelligent Design should not be taught in schools alongside sciences.

On a different note, you plan on ingesting something hot; even zalanthans realize the results of that: excessive sweating, faster loss of water to the environment..... Is it stupid when you can barely afford water in the first place? Yes.... yes it is.

Semper Pax,

Dirr

[Bebop]

I agree, shoot up the prices of tea.  I've often thought about this myself.  Why is tea so cheap when it is flavored water.  Not just water but flavored water.  It  seems like a very prissy nobel drink.  And whoever said it's on of the "three" non-alcholic drinks stuff like ale has hardly any alchohol in it, while flame has enough to quickly put you on your ass.  There is milk and that kind of thing.  Perhaps your character does not want to drink which is fine but upping the price of tea would make it harder.  Tea is minty, watery drink that I really can not see the typical commoner sitting in the Gaj (where they sell it oddly enough) sipping from a -wooden- teacup.

[Rindan]

Wooden tea cups are bad, but I don't think tea is bad.  Honestly, alcohol is a luxury.  Alcohol is a massive waste of water.  Even watered down crap will dehydrate you and make whatever water you drink less hydrating.  It takes water to break down alcohol.  Hell, as anyone who has run into Red Storm and tried to drink the spiced ale to hydrate themselves knows, alcohol is the worst thing to flush into your system if you are thirsty.

Tea on the other hand makes complete sense.  Most people would simply drink water and nothing else.  They can't afford the luxury of the added price of alcohol plus its dehydrating effects.  What they can afford are a few leaves they can drop in that horrible grey shit they call water to make it taste a little better.  In a place where water is scarce and the water that exists probably tastes like shit, tea is a great idea.  Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if a culturally people thought of tea as being extra healthy.  Heating the water up a little before drinking it kills of germs.  Your average Zalanthian might not know much about germ theory, but they might notice that people who drink a lot of tea get sick less often.

Tea makes absolute sense in a world of shitty water.  It is only our old cultural biases that elevate it to the level of a luxury.  If anything, tea might be a common man's drink and heavily alcoholic drinks and fruit juice the stuff of the well to do.  I saw the game needs MORE tea, not less.

[Agent_137]

EDIT: revamped to be less of an asshole.

I don't understand the serious objection to tea.

Go get some leaves that don't taste rotten when you chew on them.

Fill up something with water. Put the leaves in. Put a top on it.

Stick it out in the sun (which, I'll have you know, is pretty damn prevalent in the desert).

Come back later and BAM! yay! tea!

And it won't be significantly hotter than the water in your waterskin that you've had banging against your armored cuirass for that whole fucking trip through the same damn desert.

It's WATER. Flavored with LEAVES, warmed in the SUN. Again, I don't understand the objection.


lots of links to tea stuff:
http://coffeetea.about.com/cs/teabrewing/ht/ht_suntea.htm

Always remember that black teas infuse best with water at the boiling point (212F) and greens should use water at 160-180F (at most).

Oh, also, Jordan = lots of desert, right?

Wherever you go in Jordan, you are likely to hear the word, 'Welcome', and you will frequently be invited into people's homes for food or a cup of tea.

[Anonymous]

EDIT: revamped to be less of an asshole.

I don't understand the serious objection to tea.

Go get some leaves that don't taste rotten when you chew on them.

Fill up something with water. Put the leaves in. Put a top on it.

Stick it out in the sun (which, I'll have you know, is pretty damn prevalent in the desert).

Come back later and BAM! yay! tea!

And it won't be significantly hotter than the water in your waterskin that you've had banging against your armored cuirass for that whole fucking trip through the same damn desert.

It's WATER. Flavored with LEAVES, warmed in the SUN. Again, I don't understand the objection.


lots of links to tea stuff:
http://coffeetea.about.com/cs/teabrewing/ht/ht_suntea.htm

Always remember that black teas infuse best with water at the boiling point (212F) and greens should use water at 160-180F (at most).

Oh, also, Jordan = lots of desert, right?

Wherever you go in Jordan, you are likely to hear the word, 'Welcome', and you will frequently be invited into people's homes for food or a cup of tea.

I think what you are reffering to the grey scum water.  Sure you can throw any leaf and some pech grass and let is sunbath but that's not tea, my friend.  Tea comes from a specific leaf some even has a minty taste in the game.  It's water that is flavored.  And not only does it require water, one of the most precious expensive things in game it has rare added greeneries served in a wooden cup.  Now does that make sense?

[Bebop]

That was me by the way ^^^^

[Nao]

I think what you are reffering to the grey scum water.  Sure you can throw any leaf and some pech grass and let is sunbath but that's not tea, my friend.  Tea comes from a specific leaf some even has a minty taste in the game.  It's water that is flavored.  And not only does it require water, one of the most precious expensive things in game it has rare added greeneries served in a wooden cup.  Now does that make sense?

I think the problem is that you think of tea as having to use that süpecial tee plant. But you can make tea from pretty much anything... There's so many sorts and herbs you can use for tea that there probably would be some in zalanthas that aren't exactly rare.
Also, you could use water that is really old and stale or whatever.... Water that tastes really bad if you drink it without anything added. The tea would cover that up a bit and make it taste a lot less bad (though it would still be nasty). So tea could be a way to make really bad water that you could barely sell anymore into something sell- and drinkable.

[Bebop]

I think what you are reffering to the grey scum water.  Sure you can throw any leaf and some pech grass and let is sunbath but that's not tea, my friend.  Tea comes from a specific leaf some even has a minty taste in the game.  It's water that is flavored.  And not only does it require water, one of the most precious expensive things in game it has rare added greeneries served in a wooden cup.  Now does that make sense?

I think the problem is that you think of tea as having to use that süpecial tee plant. But you can make tea from pretty much anything... There's so many sorts and herbs you can use for tea that there probably would be some in zalanthas that aren't exactly rare.
Also, you could use water that is really old and stale or whatever.... Water that tastes really bad if you drink it without anything added. The tea would cover that up a bit and make it taste a lot less bad (though it would still be nasty). So tea could be a way to make really bad water that you could barely sell anymore into something sell- and drinkable.

That's more like homemade tea or scum water whatver.  The tea they sell in taverns is indeed green and a minty flavor and my last comment still applies.

[proxie]

That's more like homemade tea or scum water whatver.  The tea they sell in taverns is indeed green and a minty flavor and my last comment still applies.

Not true. I can think of four or five varieties of tea sold in Allanak. And I know Tuluk also has a tea house, so my guess is they have even more varieties.

I suspect the method to brew 'real' tea is pretty unknown by your average commoner, but that most people have a recipe for some sort of brewed flavored water available.

I totally forgot sun tea. I love that idea. Plants plus water in a sealed jar. Then if you want it hot, you reheat it a bit, but not enough that the water evaporates.

Proxie

[Tamarin]

I swear to god if you try and take my tea, I'm gonna take ALL of it, and throw it in the Sea of Silt.

[Agent_137]

Ok. I've never had this tea ICly, but how do you know it's not actually grey scum water made into leaf flavored grey scum water and sold as "tea" which your character thinks is awesome because all your char drinks is grey scum water?

[amoeba]

The sense that tea is a noble drink is anacronistic.  You keep thinking of english noblity holding onto a china cup with thier pinky sticking out.  In truth tea is a poor mans drink.  Many different types of leaves can be made into tea., just steep it in water.  We used to make sun tea all the time at home, it was often the only thing we could afford.

Stuff you could possibly use, from the webpage:

Citrodora: These leaves are long and pointed, rough textured with a prominent central vein and a strong, lemony scent, arranged along the stem in sets of three. Tiny white flowers grow in loose clusters along the top of each stem. Used mainly in cooking, to lend its flavor.

Maidenflower: Contained on a stem which resembles a jade carving, this bloom is striped in soft pink and green, deep-throated and packed with a cluster of golden-pollened pistils. A faint, airily sweet scent comes from within it. Reputed to restore potency.

Pfafna: This flower is a brilliant, almost shimmering white, almost as though each petal had been dusted with some opalescent powder. Its five petals are long and tapered, making it resemble a star in shape, and it smells sweetly of citrus and mint. Used in candymaking and some wines.

Sandspider: Long and thin, this leaf looks a lot like a spider's leg. Reddish brown in color, it blends into the desert sands quite well. Reputedly an elven aphrodisiac.

Tembotooth: These leaves are long, narrow, and glossy green. Brushed, they release a warm, peppery scent with hints of anise. Chewed for their mildly stimulating qualities, and used in cooking.

Tholinoc: The cream-colored clusters of tiny blossoms borne at the end of the furrowed, reddish stem give off a sweet almond fragrance while the wrinkled dark green leaves, their undersides a pale gray, bear a hint of wintergreen. A drop of clear sap oozes from the broken end of the branch.

Yuku: A black-hued vine often used for wicker and baskets, which grows in the Grey Forest. Sometimes a very bitter, purgative tea is made from its roots.

[Ritley]

EDIT: revamped to be less of an asshole.

I don't understand the serious objection to tea.

Go get some leaves that don't taste rotten when you chew on them.

Fill up something with water. Put the leaves in. Put a top on it.

Stick it out in the sun (which, I'll have you know, is pretty damn prevalent in the desert).

Come back later and BAM! yay! tea!

And it won't be significantly hotter than the water in your waterskin that you've had banging against your armored cuirass for that whole fucking trip through the same damn desert.

It's WATER. Flavored with LEAVES, warmed in the SUN. Again, I don't understand the objection.


lots of links to tea stuff:
http://coffeetea.about.com/cs/teabrewing/ht/ht_suntea.htm

Always remember that black teas infuse best with water at the boiling point (212F) and greens should use water at 160-180F (at most).

Oh, also, Jordan = lots of desert, right?

Wherever you go in Jordan, you are likely to hear the word, 'Welcome', and you will frequently be invited into people's homes for food or a cup of tea.

I think what you are reffering to the grey scum water.  Sure you can throw any leaf and some pech grass and let is sunbath but that's not tea, my friend.  Tea comes from a specific leaf some even has a minty taste in the game.  It's water that is flavored.  And not only does it require water, one of the most precious expensive things in game it has rare added greeneries served in a wooden cup.  Now does that make sense?

Might be rare in our world and hard to find. Might not be in Zalanthas. Must not be because their is so much of it.

[My 2 sids]

Look, Americans still stuck on the Tea tax, the drink of tea is one of the easiest and cheapest drinks ever created.  I think people are thinking of the sophistication of tea here in the States or they're thinking of the sudden love of tea that came with the hype of the 3$ coffee latte craze.  The truth is the catigory of "tea" is much bigger!  It can get fancy or it can be grass left in a sun-jar of murky water.    

Nor do I understand the reluctance to use water.  Yes, water is hard to come by, but it's not medal... it exists.   I mean, remember what it takes to make ale...  a lot more water, heat, time, and manpower.




It's WATER. Flavored with LEAVES, warmed in the SUN. Again, I don't understand the objection.

[Bebop]

Okay put the tea leaves aside for a moment.

Water.  Water is the most precious one of the most rare rescources on Armageddon.  -Precious- And very expensive especially in the south.

Now you all are thinking of cheap teas sure, but in some places like oriental cultures tea is like wine and some sell for hundreds buy the pound.  Sure you can put any old leaf in your water, but that's not -tea-

Now let's go back to water, the most precious rescource on the game.  Does it make sense that you are sitting in the rough and tumble Gaj, sipping on first of all -water- which happens to be as cheap as ale, but not only the most precious rescource but in a little wooden cup with special leaves that take an hour at the least to brew.  That just doesn't make sense to me and doesn't seem very commoner like.  There will still be tea I just think you just have to pay more for it.

[Rindan]

Water is precious, but everyone needs it.  Water is the cheapest way to hydrate in Zalanthas.  Juice and milk cost far more, and alcohol dehydrates.  If you want to hydrate in Zalanthas, water is the way to go.  While water might be precious, that doesn't mean it tastes good.  Most Zalanthian probably drink shitty water.  If you MUST drink shitty and expensive water to live, why not throw a few leaves into that water?

As to brewing time, I have no idea what you are drinking, but I can brew tea in about a minute.  Heat the water up to the point just before boiling, throw in some leaves, and call it a day.

I'll agreed that wooden mugs are a bit silly, but there is nothing silly about throwing some leaves into warm water and serving it.  That goes double and triple if the water tastes like crap to begin with.  It isn't like putting leaves in the water diminishes the value of the water.  It still hydrates as well as taking a swig from your waterskin, it just tastes better.  It makes perfect sense to me that after a long hard days work, your average thirsty Joe Amos would plop down in the Gaj for a nice tea instead of some dehydrating alcohol.

If you can get the stuff together to make frigging alcohol, tea is a snap.

As far as the price of tea, tea cost just as much as water plus a few leaves.  Hell, I bet they don't even need to heat the tea as Zalanthas is already plenty hot enough to steep tea.  I don't see what the issue is.  The only thing that this thread has done is convince me that Zalanthas needs MORE tea, not less.

[amoeba]

Now let's go back to water, the most precious rescource on the game.  Does it make sense that you are sitting in the rough and tumble Gaj, sipping on first of all -water- which happens to be as cheap as ale, but not only the most precious rescource but in a little wooden cup with special leaves that take an hour at the least to brew.  That just doesn't make sense to me and doesn't seem very commoner like.  There will still be tea I just think you just have to pay more for it.

The reasoning is somewhat skewed.  

One, you imply each cup is brewed individually? Don't think about our modern world, think zalanthian.  The tea is in a vat behind the bar, steeping for days.  Customer orders a cup, pour out a cup, no harder than ale.  

Two, water is precious, okay and?  You still get all that water when you drink the tea, what do you think ale is made from, sand?  

Three, it costs a lot to make tea. Bunk. Tea is nothing more than leaves in water.  A very few, probably quite common leaves stored in a jug of water for a time. A few sid for the leaves that can make up a crap load of tea.  Your markup is mostly on the price of the water.  If the tea sold for less than the same amount of water, then yes stupid, but it doesn't.  Compare this to ale.  Ale takes a hell of a lot more ingredients than tea, and is quite labor intensive to make.  Plus it is a specialized skill, meaning they probably buy it from someone verses making it up themselves.

It is easy enough to prove to yourself how simple it is to produce tea.  Get a jar with a lid, fill it with water.  Go out to the yard and pick some dandlions and dump them in the jar.  Close the jar and sit it in the sun for a few hours.  Voila you will have tea.  Now it probably tastes pretty awful, but it is tea.  For all yiou skeptical types, just try it. It's pretty damn fool proof.  Now, go figure out how to make the same amount of ale. btw. I would not recommend drinking it though, Zalanthions can eat raw meat sitting in a backpack for a month, we can't.

[O]

Not only is tea rehydrating, it also raises your body temperature causing you to sweat a bit. As this evaporates, it cools your skin down and refreshes you.

And as other people have said, water may be rare, but the ability to throw in a few leaves to make what -is- there taste different isn't.

People in hot and water-scarce countries aren't daft....

Tea's a wonderful thing.

[Scarborough]

Sure you can put any old leaf in your water, but that's not -tea-

Um...yes it is.  For those of us that don't drink cut tea, what would you call the herbal stuff, like the yerba mate I love so much? It's still tea even though it doesn't come from the tea plant.  From Dictionary.com:

1. An eastern Asian evergreen shrub or small tree (Camellia sinensis) having fragrant, nodding, cup-shaped white flowers and glossy leaves.
2.  An aromatic, slightly bitter beverage made by steeping tea leaves in boiling water.
3. Any of various beverages, made as by steeping the leaves of certain plants or by extracting an infusion especially from beef.
4. Any of various plants having leaves used to make a tealike beverage.

The argument that tea should be uber-expensive because it uses water makes little sense when you hold the same argument up against ales and harder drinks.  With at least ales, you have to use a great deal of water to create it, some of which has to be evaporated off.  With things like "firebreather" or whisky, you also would use a lot of water and the grains/juices necessary, but you would evaporate off most of the water.  That is a great waste of resources and is a better argument for harder drinks to be more expensive.  Tea should be the same cost as water in whatever region you buy it in, and maybe a few 'sid more due to a couple lousy leaves or roots tossed in for flavor.  

Can the tea snobbery of our modern world be put aside?..I don't care what tea on earth costs or what the rich and famous do with it, or how expensive a pound of exclusive white tea from China costs.  It's not relavent to the game since the plantlife in game isn't the same as earth plants.  If some gamers are disturbed by the loose usage of the term "tea", you could easily substitute a more ambiguous term for flavored water during your playtime:  tincture or infusion

[path]

I've always thought tea was already a little over-expensive, though not so much in Tuluk, since, perhaps because of the tribal cultures, it's more in style there.

For those of you who have not made or tried suntea, it's wonderful. You don't lose any water making it and there's something really special about how the heat of the sun releases the flavor into the water. Mint is my favorite to make in this way. It's -super- easy. Try it out. Then get back to me.  :wink:

[Scarborough]

Path, yes I always thought sun tea tasted better too, and I've often wondered why.  Someone else mentioned boiling removing the oxygen so maybe sun tea has more oxygen in it?  I think just letting the water sit lets some of the chlorine and other "purifying" chemicals cities put into water get out, and that would surely make tea taste better too.  And despite recommendations of boiling water to make "proper" tea, the flavors always seem to make their way into the water just fine with sun tea.  Good stuff!  

Side note:  Yerba Mate would make retched, awful sun tea though.

[Agent_137]

People are still discussing TEA in this thread?

hahaha.


It's WATER. Flavored with LEAVES, warmed in the SUN.