Why is the North so easy?

[Kalden]

After noticing that the difficulty for an indie in Allanak was (perhaps sharply) raised recently, I have to ask. What sort of purpose does the staff have in mind when they do this to Allanak and never do it to Tuluk?

Are you actively discouraging independents down there?

Are you trying to give hardcore players a good mix of difficulty choices?

Do you keep in mind how difficult it is for a player to survive in each of the areas?

I'm not irritated, but I'm curious.

[Tamarin]

Who says it was the staff that did it to allanak?

[Kalden]

The question applies anyway. Besides, it's been indirectly caused by a swarm of hunters who can't survive down south...

[Manhattan]

The question applies anyway. Besides, it's been indirectly caused by a swarm of hunters who can't survive down south...

wait, is this because of the lack of animals in the nakki sands?

[Rindan]

The biggest difference between Allanak and Tuluk is hunting is much easier in Tuluk.  Outside of that, the Allanaki templerate tends to be a little more aggressive, and the Allanaki independent PCs tend to be more criminal in nature.

The hunting piece makes perfect sense.  Tuluk is a much lusher and less harsh environment to live in.  Allanak is just a big ugly desert.  That is how they are supposed to be.  Due to the fact that many independents are hunters or gathers, this drops the population of Allanaki independents a fair amount.  Hunting and gathering in Allanak is extremely risky.

That said, I think Allanak makes up for what it lacks in hunting with potential for criminals.  Allanak is pretty well setup for criminals.  Corruption in Allanak runs pretty deep.  If you want to be an independent in Allanak, setup a criminal, finding a nice 'rinth bar, and sit down.  You will run into some criminal enterprise sooner or later.  The biggest problem with criminal enterprises is that they are somewhat separated from Allanak proper and so it can seem as if there are fewer criminals then there are.  The other problem is that the militia works in waves.  Some times they let small criminal operations go unchecked and a strong PC run underground operation really starts to build up steam and pick up players.  The flips side is that every now and then a Templar or militiaman sets out to tear apart the criminal infrastructure and with a few easily placed informants is able to topple most of the PC criminal organizations in Allanak.  If the militia really want you dead, you pretty much are banned from Allanak proper.  There is no way to 'slip by' unnoticed when there are only two bars in Allanak proper to go to.

I don't think it is a terrible state of affairs.  Some people just like Tuluk for what it is.  I personally like the open brutality and corruption of Allanak and so stick there.  I don't mind that are two different places with two different tastes.  Honestly, if you like the harsh life and think that Allanak is the place to be for it, then just make Allanaki characters.  There is no competition to see which city state has the longest lived characters.  It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if Tuluk was a fairy kingdom so long as Allanak stays harsh.

[ale six]

Besides, it's been indirectly caused by a swarm of hunters who can't survive down south...

You know, it's really hard to discuss anything meaningful if you can't mention what's even happening, and it's really silly to jump to conclusions like that either way.

Lets just let IC stuff stay IC and not gripe?

[Kalden]

Lets just let IC stuff stay IC and not gripe?

I wasn't referring to anything IC. I'm simply saying that the North might attract a larger pbase, allowing it to dominate the conflict between the two city-states.

Either way, eh, I don't reallly care. I'm happy in Allanak. I just wonder why Tuluk is kept so easy.

That said, I think Allanak makes up for what it lacks in hunting with potential for criminals. Allanak is pretty well setup for criminals. Corruption in Allanak runs pretty deep. If you want to be an independent in Allanak, setup a criminal, finding a nice 'rinth bar, and sit down. You will run into some criminal enterprise sooner or later.

I've had plenty of experience with that, yeah. And I'm very happy. But, as you pointed out, supporting a stronger criminal pbase simply makes the south even harsher.  :wink:

I said I don't really care, but I would like to see Tuluk made harsher or Allanak given some small game to hunt after (besides scrab ... and tarantula).

[Delirium]

Just because you can't see them...

There is SOME small game near Allanak.

[hcwalker]

There is some small game in Allanak to hunt, but I feel Allanak could use a upgrade in terms of the ecosystem around it.  Not necessarily to make it a hunter's paradise or anything like that, just a little more interesting ecology, i.e., more small creatures mixed with the dangerous ones, and a more interactive environment.

[Maybe42or54]

Didn't Halaster say there are more Pcs in Allanak?

Who needs hunting anyway? Gets people killed.

[Gaare]

Kalden make Tuluk more dangerous!

- Destory pyramids and His Faithfuls and let magickers stay in the City.

- Destroy the large plains and tribals within, then make those land more vast and full of scrab and that kind of large agreesive beast.

- Make a lot of jerk PCs, that already exist in Tuluk society whom are not plaied because of various reasons.

- Convience players to consider, there are elves in Tuluk and they can be as ugly as some 'rinthy.

- Convience people to play in old city ruins.

Then you will have a very similar place to 'nak.

And Kalden, I am sure you knew all above before I write. "I hate Tuluk threads" begin to make me feel defensive, and I do not want to be in that mood. If you want Tuluk to change.. Well.. I guess we all have some wishes.

Edit: Remove of some daily Turkish expression which can cause misunderstanding.

[Synthesis]

Of course, Tuluk being such an easy place to be independent is ultimately a detriment to their society, since that leaves their Houses unmanned.  Reason #147 that Allanak will eventually take over (again).

[Pantoufle]

Lets just let IC stuff stay IC and not gripe?

I think the original author, Kalden, made it more than evident that he was far from "griping" as you insist when he said:

I'm not irritated, but I'm curious.

Inquiring into aspects of the game is not griping.  Debating and disagreeing on a discussion board is not griping either.

In fact, I don't recall the last, authentic, gripe I've seen on this discussion board except, well, yours, ale six (griping about people who aren't even griping in the first place.)

[Halaster]

Then you will have a very similar place to 'nak.

But we don't want them to be the same.

[Intrepid]

But we don't want them to be the same.

This makes sense.  If anything, Allanak and Tuluk are counterculture to
each other.  They're deliberately gaining their own identity from being
the exact opposite of the other if you look closely at each doc in General
Information.

[Armaddict]

Why does everyone try to make everything a balance issue in this game?

Like Halaster said...they're -supposed- to be different.  Easier...harder...that doesn't even matter.  They're different environments.  Choose the one that more suitably enhances your play.

MY only issue with Tuluk hasn't been that it's -easy- (because it's got it's own challenges, really), it's been that through my (admittedly pretty limited, due to this reason) experience, -everyone- is trying to play somewhat the same character there.  OOOOOH!  I'M SUBTLE!  I LOVE YOU BUT ACTUALLY I'M DANGEROUS!  YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW IT!

That's seriously the mentality I saw -everywhere- and I got sick of it.

[Pantoufle]

At the same time, Tuluk and Allanak are not supposed to be polar opposites either.

For every contrived difference you shove down my throat, I can name you ten similatiries.

The fact remains, both are CITY-STATES ruled by SORCERER-KINGS who wield their powers through TEMPLARS wearing ROBES that differentiate their rank and title, all speak TATLUM and they have STRANGE POWERS.

I think it's good that the two city-states have their own special flair, but after a while it gets to a point that people are trying to make them different for no other reason than ... just to make them different.  Make them different, fine, but don't deliberately set every single facet of Tuluki and Allanaki culture up specifically to be completely the opposite of the other.  There should be similarities.  There were similarities of the ancient Greek city-states even amongst those who opposed one another, as with ancient Egyptian cities and on and on.

[Intrepid]

Why not?  That seems to fit their propaganda mindset, actually.

[It's not 'so easy']

Interested why you posted that (again, as you always do) Armaddict, as you admit yourself that you don't really know what you're talking about!

Each of the characters my own ran into yesterday, within the space of a few hours, were ENTIRELY different to each other. People ranging from the low caste criminal to the high caste fancy pants, and where the caste was the same, as totally different as I am to you.

Anyway, as to Tuluk being easy, that's just ridiculous! Allanak is 'easy' if you have a nice aide and don't ever do or say anything in the slightest bit risky and sit in a tavern all day. If anything, from my experiece Tuluk is the HARDER place to play in as things are much less open and black and white there, and it's far less obvious where you stand or what's really going on. The challenge, mindset, style and place is entirely different to Allanak - as it should be.

There may be more little animals to hunt in the North, but that alone doesn't make it easier unless that's all you choose to do with your character. If you want a more difficult hunt, go and try and capture a bahamet or something.

You're presented with a choice - if you choose to make it easy for yourself, fine, but then be careful with blanket statements.

[Scarborough]

-everyone- is trying to play somewhat the same character there. OOOOOH! I'M SUBTLE! I LOVE YOU BUT ACTUALLY I'M DANGEROUS! YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW IT!

I don't try to play my character that way at all.

[Armaddict]

Interested why you posted that (again, as you always do) Armaddict, as you admit yourself that you don't really know what you're talking about!

Because my opinion hasn't changed.  I have played in the north, but don't often, because of reasons I've stated, as you mentioned, many times before.  Yes, I did say that I don't have much experience in the north, but I didn't say I didn't know what I was talking about.  This is the reason I don't play in the north...I'm not downtalking here, simply stating my opinion on that matter.  Thank you for acknowledging my opinion.

However, the point wasn't that I don't like Tuluk, so let's try not to shift focus to that, please?

My point was that in this particular case, this is kind of being made into a balance issue.  The north is different.  It's easier for some people than others.  It's easier than Allanak in some ways, and harder in others.  The problem is that if you are talking about going out and hunting by yourself and making money, hell yeah it's easier.  But to make an impact in the political scene or do some other goal of a specific character, it will be perhaps more difficult.

I think if you're talking about the north being -easy-, you're probably talking about only one aspect of it and forgetting about others.  I'd suggest trying to play a character there with a different 'focus' or general playstyle, and the situation may change.

Or, you may end up like me, and decide the north as it is is not for you.

[JollyGreenGiant]

I'm seriously disappointed in this thread. I thought it was going to be all about how the Gol Krathu was an easy lay.

Oh, something on topic.

I had a character that made a pretty good living picking stuff up off of dead bodies in Tuluk and a ways outside (before succumbing to a doubtless similar fate to the people I'd been scavenging from). Allanak doesn't appear to be any different. Having spent around a year in each of them, I can't say I see what all the fuss is about.

Also, perhaps this isn't the case, but my perception when I read the posts about how "easy" Tuluk was, what I'm getting from that is that you're talking about code, not roleplaying. Why is it important if it's easier to kill mob X, Y, and Z in the north than it is to kill mob A, B, and C in the south? Or if chopping wood is easier than hacking obsidian which is easier than panning for spice? If all you're concerned about is how codedly easy it is to perform a few actions, you're pretty much missing out on all the fun aspects of roleplaying.

[Anonymous]

Tuluk is the HARDER place to play in as things are much less open and black and white there, and it's far less obvious where you stand or what's really going on.

Sometimes I feel like people say these things because they had one experience or read it on the board and make it sound like every day in Tuluk is the end of an M. Night Shayamalalala book.

My experience, repeatedly, is that Tuluk is much easier to live in than Allanak.  In Tuluk you can keep your head down and generally avoid trouble.  In Allanak it's been a guaranteed to me that some Templar or noble will stick their nose in your business if you are sitting at the bar and try to screw you over.  That coupled with the more difficult desert survival requirements make Allanak much harder to play in.

Personally, I like that.  I like that I can play in different places and have varying character experiences in terms of survival and the like.  What I don't like about Tuluk is the ways it feels like it is redundant to Allanak in a way that only thins things out for both cities.  But having a hunter in Tuluk you can login with and go kill some tregils is relaxing in it's own right and I think it has a place in the game every bit as much as the typical Allanak desert survival struggle.

[Halaster]

After noticing that the difficulty for an indie in Allanak was (perhaps sharply) raised recently, I have to ask. What sort of purpose does the staff have in mind when they do this to Allanak and never do it to Tuluk?

No idea what you mean by this really.  There have been no significant changes that I think would affect these sorts of things recently, so I can't really answer the question.  If you could be more specific, that'd help.  If it's too IC sensitive to post, email me.

Are you actively discouraging independents down there?

Nope.

Are you trying to give hardcore players a good mix of difficulty choices?

We don't set them up with "difficulty level" in mind.

Do you keep in mind how difficult it is for a player to survive in each of the areas?

A little.  But keep in mind we don't necessarily take the approach of "difficulty" when designing an area.  We come up with ideas, and we implement those ideas.  There are little critters, and then there are big critters that eat the little ones.  If they're too difficult for you to kill, that doesn't mean we intended it that way.  We just set the area up to fit with the geography we wanted for that part of the world.  We don't typically design an area specifically to cater to "easy" or "hard", we just make it.  Though, there are some balancing issues we consider and so there's usually something fairly small you can hunt in most areas (though not all).  But we're not trying to make "zones" that are designed for certain levels of ability, nor do we try to make parts of the world balanced or even.

Armaddict was right when he said that things aren't really intended to be balanced.  They just are.  You have roles (and parts of the world) with varying power, influence, and difficulty, and you choose a role to play based on what you feel like playing.

[Intrepid]

I actually haven't found Allanak difficult at all, tbh.  I came back to game,
wandered right into a job and haven't been in any serious trouble at all.
My pc has encountered templars that didn't seem to really care what I
was up to.  One was even helpful.  I actually felt like everyone was being
strangely accomodating.