Masks, Hoods, Wraps - The Poll

[jmordetsky]

Being that the post generated 5 pages of discussion, and a lot of ideas I wanted to add a poll to get a number attached to some of the proposals


Edit: The original post -  http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15505

[Armaddict]

2nd or 4th.  But I voted for 2nd because it would be most ideal.  But I'm not sure whether it's deemed worth the work involved.

[Agent_137]

describing different parts of your body individually would solve some issues, but create a lot of hassle.

not sure if it's worth it on a mass scale, but I wouldn't mind doing it.

[RunningMountain]

Re-do the EQ system. Stacked equipment system rules.

[Ghost]

The second choice is the best one.  I am not sure how much work it requires though.  If it is too much work, then the system is fine as it is.

Besides, not every facewrap, hood, or mask conceals the face so much when checked with the longdesc.  It would still not be perfect realism if we assumed all do the same effect.

P.S:  Where is "I want to see sarahJC's naked pictures" option?

[Rindan]

Personally, I would prefer a system where you can either see their mdesc or you can't.  Partial mdescs really don't serve much of a purpose other then as a cosmetic purpose.  Until people have boring code generated mdescs, a partial mdesc is just as revealing as a full mdesc.  If in my mdesc it says that 'my body is gnarled like an ancient agafari tree' and that is never covered up, that is all someone will need to identify me.  A partial mdesc system just combines the pain of separating out what can and can not be seen with near perfect identification.  That doesn't really do anyone any good.  It is still trivial to pick out exactly who someone is even if they have a bulky robe and mask on, and you have thrown in an extra layer of pain in the ass by making it so that you need to designate different body descriptions during character creation.

If I had a magic wand and was to implement a coded solution that would minimize pain for coders, it would be to add more generic information to hidden mdescs.  So, lets say the rule mechanism works like this.  In order to hide a mdesc, you need to wear at least two pieces of concealing clothing.  If you have a dark hooded robe and a facewrap, you are probably pretty damn close to being impossible to identify by any other method other then tattoos and special equipment.  At this point, your mdesc would change to something like a slightly wordier assess –v.  You would know their equipment, height, roughly how thick around they are, and any visible scars and tattoos, but that is it.  

Would it be perfect?  No, but at least there would be SOME possible way of concealing your identity.  As it stands, there is absolutely no way to even begin to conceal your identity short of magik or imm intervention.  Having absolutely no way to conceal your identity in a place where the active population never peaks past 30 or so players in an area makes it so that everyone might as well just wander around with a name tag on.

[Ghost]

Partial mdescs really don't serve much of a purpose other then as a cosmetic purpose.

I think partial mdesc -would- serve a purpose.  If they close the desc of the face and leave the rest, it would take someone's time to have "look" carefully and catch the main desc.. And it would be again looking at everyone else and trying to match the main desc.  Such is careful looking.  And I would find it pretty realistic that someone identifies by careful looking.

That is my take on it.

[Rindan]

I think partial mdesc -would- serve a purpose.  If they close the desc of the face and leave the rest, it would take someone's time to have "look" carefully and catch the main desc.. And it would be again looking at everyone else and trying to match the main desc.  Such is careful looking.  And I would find it pretty realistic that someone identifies by careful looking.

That is my take on it.

It would take seconds.  Copy and past a partial mdesc into a text file.  Then look at people's mdescs later and compare.  Hell, you can set up zMUD to do it for you if you want to be a real ass hole.  The simple fact of the matter is that, absolutely without question, I don't think any person can argue with a straight face that all the tables are not violently turned against anyone who wants to realistically conceal their identity.  

In the real world, people conceal their identities all of the time and get away with it, despite the fact that we have police who care and security cameras that never forget.  In the low tech world of Zalanthas in a city where people are stacked on top of each other, there is absolutely nothing realistic about the fact that it is completely impossible to conceal your identity.  This gives crime fighting such a massively disproportionate advantage that it isn't even funny.  A modern cop would kill for the ability to tell what every concealed criminal looks like, and then be able to go pick them out of a lineup of 30 people like the Zalanthas equivalent gets to do.

Personally, if I played a raider I would simply kill everyone.  Even though a baggy cloak and facewrap would be all that it would take to keep your identity concealed, with the code as it is, the only way to keep your identity concealed is to simply kill every single person you run to.

[Ghost]

It would take seconds. Copy and past a partial mdesc into a text file. Then look at people's mdescs later and compare. Hell, you can set up zMUD to do it for you if you want to be a real ass hole. The simple fact of the matter is that, absolutely without question, I don't think any person can argue with a straight face that all the tables are not violently turned against anyone who wants to realistically conceal their identity.

I see your point.  But this is more of a "trust on players" issue I think.  There are two sides of the coin here:  Either we will trust the criminal and think he won't abuse it; or we will trust the rest and think they won't abuse the current system.

The reason I am supporting the victims' side, is that, there are more victims than criminals, and it will always be like that.  And I would choose giving more space to majority here.

I played a criminal that lived 20 RL months.  And I can say, it is a tough job, but can it be done.  (I believe) I had been a headache for some people even at that time.  If the code gave me more chance, I think it would be annoying for some players.  So I thought it is "fair enough".

Yes, players can abuse the current system.  They can identify who is who instantly and then use it for their advantage.  Yes, we are supposed to trust they would not abuse it, and that we should support it with the code.  But giving the ability to conceal all mdescs to all hoods/facewraps, would just shift that trust to the criminal side.  It would not solve it.

I say, we leave it as it is.  If there should be a change, partial mdescs sounds cool.  I would love that.  But just covering your face, should not give everyone cheap invisibility I think.

[Medena]

I voted to leave it the way it is.  Though I do not think "everything is fine" with it, I think this is the best option.  The problem isn't so severe as to warrant the amount of trouble the changes would likely be.

I think the partial mdesc is the only one of the change options which would work. Choice #1 would look pretty silly. Choice #4 is very unrealistic.  I think the partial mdesc is a pretty neat idea but a lot of trouble.  If I understand the working of the idea correctly, not only would the code of mdescs have to be changed but chargen as well, to allow for separate entries for each portion of the body.

I fear that compartmentalizing the descs into different sections could lead to a lot of choppily written mdescs which smack of a formulaic approach.  Also, I wouldn't want to be wired into writing about every portion on every character if I didn't want to.  In fact, I almost always write most, if not all, of my mdescs about only the shoulders on up. Unless there is something remarkable about the arms or torso or feet, I see no need to mention them.  Similarly, irl, this is the zone on a person that I notice/remember unless they have a humongously huge ass, are missing a hand, have a knife sticking out of their leg, etc.

I think the people who cut and paste people's mdescs into files and/or commit each word to memory ought to give their head a shake.  I mean, seriously, they ought to ask themselves why they are being so anal about winning a game that isn't meant to be won.  If I have looked at a person's mdesc often enough to remember it, then I might be able to recognize them while they are veiled/masked.  But usually, unless I have looked at an mdesc quite a few times, I'm just not going to remember it that well anyway.

[JollyGreenGiant]

have a knife sticking out of their leg

I'm putting that in my next mdesc just to see who notices.

"This guy has a knife sticking out of his leg.  Judging by the lack of blood, it's probably been there a while.  Quite a while, even, perhaps."

[RunningMountain]

Arrow in the hand would be cool.

[Sir Diealot]

Technically.. in the Zalanthian environment.. having shards of bone/obsidian from swords/arrows stuck in your body (maybe having flesh grown over, maybe not)  might be able to be lived through.. Heal around it.. or, get lucky and not get infected too badly, and you've got yourself an interesting character desc.