Tuluk v. Allanak - A Different Sort of Look.

[Cale_Knight]

I was lamenting the lack of active northern templarate tonight and thought to myself, "You know, Cale*, these positions are generally only filled when openings are announced. It's nobody's fault but the playerbase."

So I went to the Staff Announcments forum and looked through all the specifically northern/southern openings in the past year.

-When "one or two" of the same kind of positions were open, I marked it as one.

-I didn't count bumps for existing roles as extra hits, either. Multiple calls for the same role in the same thread were only counted if there was a specific mention of the role having been filled, or a statement such as "we're once again accepting for such and such."

-The "commoner openings" number refers to either commoner positions inside noble houses or specific calls for members of either militia.

-Posts inside threads that were started before Oct 12, 2005 were only counted if they were posted no more than a year ago.

The gist of all this is that these numbers are low all around - I figured it was better to have a bare minimum than have arbitrarily inflated numbers.

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Southern Templar Openings -7
Southern Noble Openings -10
Southern Commoner Openings -8

Northern Templar Openings -1
Northern Noble Openings -8
Northern Commoner Openings -2

So basically what I'm seeing here is not just a trend for players to play in Allanak because it's inherently better, but perhaps because there's an actual trend up in immland for opening more roles for southerners in general.

So the real question is this: is Allanak more active because there's more of an immortal-supported infrastructure, or is there more of an immortal-supported infrastructure because Allanak is more active? At the moment, 'nak has multiple active nobles, templars and militia. Tuluk has one moderately-active templar, one mostly inactive templar, one moderately active noble, one very active noble, and a limited militia presence.

Anyone who cares to run the same numbers, feel free to do so. There's a lot of posts to look through and I very well might have missed something somewhere. But I think the point stands fairly well. If the north is somehow inferior to the south, maybe some more could be done to make Tuluk interesting to play in.*

*disclaimer numero uno- Cale is not Cale's real name.

*disclaimer part deux - This is constructive criticism. No dogpiling one Cale** for bitching or whining. He loves this game.

*disclaimer part tres - Please see disclaimer numero uno.

[Manhattan]

I've played North and South back-to-back (hey, my PC's die quick!) and they're both the same in terms of player-base and excitement.

[Maybe42or54]

Very good point, but as I recall. There are more Southern Pc deaths by PK, then in the north.

I've only known three northern templars, and they live forever.

Whereas in the south, I could name five off the top of my head and a rumor about how they died.

Allanak templar's just want to be ballsy. Ballsy gets people killed.

[RunningMountain]

It has been observed by myself that the northern templars have been around forever. The southern templars fluctuate a lot more, but Allanak is far more dangerous obviously.

Why are there more players in Allanak?
More newbies start in allanak then anywhere else.
Allanak is easier to learn.
Allanak has the 'rinth and it has a playerbase as well.
Allanak is a huge trade city, people are constantly coming and going.
Allanak rules always and forever so it doesn't matter.

[Dan]

Out of my few years of playing... Is it five already? I have had only about five characters in Allanak.

I have always liked playing in the north.

[Cale_Knight]

What I really don't want this thread to become is one about the virtues about the north or the south, or who likes playing where.

I'm more interested in a discussion of what these numbers represent, if anything.

[Dan]

Well, I guess my underlying point with my post was that -despite- those numbers I have played mostly northern characters. I have never noticed anything out of the ordinary when they are asking for folks to take up a role.

As for a trend, well, that too may be possible. The numbers would suggest it.

[Xygax]

My interpretation of these numbers, if anything, is that to some degree the Northern culture lags behind the southern in terms of documentation, coded and data-driven support, and opportunities for staff supervision, especially with regard to leadership roles, nobility, templarate, and so on.

In reinventing the north after the cataclysm that destroyed old Tuluk, and especially after the comparatively long occupation by Allanaki forces (and leadership), some of the long established elements of Tuluki culture have had to be rebuilt (from an OOC perspective, as much as anything else).  This unfortunately leads to difficulty in placing PCs in positions in the north, -especially- the Northern Templarate suffers because of this.  We're still trying to flesh out mechanics for the northern templarate that are entertaining for both the players of templars and their enemies.  And we're trying to do so in a way that doesn't directly rip-off the Allanaki culture and mechanics.

It just takes time.

-- X

[jstorrie]

Northern templars may simply die or be stored less than southern templars, which could also account for these numbers.

[Ghost]

I think the number of the openings are determined by the how well the previous experiences went.  If three templars seemed too much for north, they don't announce for openings when one of them disappears.  Or if one noble in south looking like it is not enough, they make another announcement for it.

Some of the announcements also depend on player's request I think.  Like if there is a heavy trend of applications to play some leadership roles in someplace, staff makes the positions accordingly.

EDIT:  Oh, these are just my thoughts of course.  They don't have solid backing up.

[Dalmeth]

How many templars are active in Allanak at one time?  Currently, in Tuluk, I've only seen 2 semi-active templars.  From what little I know, Tuluki templars don't die much because they aren't around enough to involve themselves in something that would get them killed.

[Maybe42or54]

Most I've seen active are 3 in the south, three in the north.
Normally it is about two and two.

Different culture up north, less PC danger from my point of view, the only things I've heard of killing the PC templar's are Imm plots and twists.

Then in the south, I've heard of a pc assassinating a red robe. Have their been any Northern Templar assassinations, ever?

[ale six]

It would be very nice if the northern templarate/militia were more active.  The few scattered templar and Legion PCs there are don't really do Tuluk the justice of being the police state it's supposed to be.

I also think with a few good noble/templar PCs to set examples and drive plots in the northlands, a lot of the reasons people have to hate Tuluk would go away. What Tuluk really seems to be suffering from is a lack of machinery driving things at the top.

Maybe it should be a bigger priority to keep active PCs in noble/templar roles in both cities, and/or increase the number of players allowed to have these sorts of roles?

[Rindan]

I tend to think that these numbers just show that Southern Templars have a much higher turn over rate.  It seems to me that the staff generally keeps 3 templars in each city.  Of those three templars, generally only one or two are really active.  In the South, templars die often and are constantly being replaced.  Since I started playing my Allanaki character more actively, he has outlived at least three Alanaki templars and all of the militia except one.  My character is not particularly long lived or cautious.  

I think there are two interlinking problems are work.

First, old characters in general tend to be played less and less.  If the North has three very long lived templars, I wouldn't be surprised if they tend to log in less and less as time goes on.  This is a pretty standard thing that happens.  Very few people have the energy to hold that sort of role for a long time and find the energy and time to dump 4 hours a day into a game every single day.  In my experience, newer leaders tend to be much more active.  Because of the higher turnover rate in Allanak, it has a steady supply of fresh and active leaders, while the North might be suffering from some stagnation in terms of its leadership roles.

Second, Allanak is just more dangerous.  Allanak has more criminals, more criminal dealings, and more chances for Templars to piss off the wrong criminal organization and wind up dead.  The North on the other hand with its "plots within plots" style just does a poor job killing people... which leads me to a larger point.

I don't think that the North should be place with the long lived templars and the south where they die by the handful.  Sure, southern Templars are prone to die due to the danger of the city and their position, but northern Templars should be kicking the bucket too, maybe even in greater numbers.  The North is supposed to be the land of assassins, poisons, and deep (potentially violent) political intrigue.  If the North was more like it is supposed to be, with assassins and political plotting at every turn, I think you would find more dead Templars.

All of this said, I have not played a Northern in a good long while and rely a lot on second hand information as to what is happening up there, so perhaps things are different then what I say.

[Faithful Kank]

From Player of a Tuluki Templar's point of view.

There are more Southern Pc deaths by PK, then in the north.

There are simply more PC southorn templars. Even so, I don't think many of them die because of PK.

It has been observed by myself that the northern templars have been around forever. The southern templars fluctuate a lot more, but Allanak is far more dangerous obviously.

I think southorn templars usually retire faster then northern ones. I do not know the reason, maybe boredom. Of course this is a player's observation, nothing more.

We're still trying to flesh out mechanics for the northern templarate that are entertaining for both the players of templars and their enemies.

You seem to done well already. I do not know southorn witches, but Jihaens are probably the coolest human group walk on Zalanthas (even players can not play as cool as they should be.)

Northern templars may simply die or be stored less than southern templars, which could also account for these numbers.

Yep. Simply Northern Templars are better and more entertaining then 'naki filth.

Tuluki templars don't die much because they aren't around enough to involve themselves in something that would get them killed.

Heretic! I can not compare with 'naki templars, but not being able to hang around with 'rinthy rats and magickers do not mean His faithfuls have less in hand to get involved.

Then in the south, I've heard of a pc assassinating a red robe. Have their been any Northern Templar assassinations, ever?

Yes. Not as much as southorn templars I guess because we do not let magickers to enter the Ivory... but yes.

I also think with a few good noble/templar PCs to set examples and drive plots in the northlands, a lot of the reasons people have to hate Tuluk would go away. What Tuluk really seems to be suffering from is a lack of machinery driving things at the top.

Maybe it should be a bigger priority to keep active PCs in noble/templar roles in both cities, and/or increase the number of players allowed to have these sorts of roles?

Sad. I guess our playerbase is not large enough for supporting more. From my point of view, I have been running my templar for ten months just about forthy days of gameplay, there is not enough commoner PCs around. I hate times when all active PCs in Tuluk (a handful) are somewhat related to templarate.

I don't think that the North should be place with the long lived templars and the south where they die by the handful. Sure, southern Templars are prone to die due to the danger of the city and their position, but northern Templars should be kicking the bucket too, maybe even in greater numbers. The North is supposed to be the land of assassins, poisons, and deep (potentially violent) political intrigue. If the North was more like it is supposed to be, with assassins and political plotting at every turn, I think you would find more dead Templars.

With assasins and thieves are controled by templarate by law, your words are true for everybody in Tuluk other then His Faithfuls.

About political intrigue part. With small number of chosens and house merchants, especially when those PCs retire after a couple of months time, there is little chance of politics. If Faithfuls would die as quickly as other elites of the Ivory, Tuluki political gameplay would be even worse then it is now.

Allanak is just more dangerous.

For commoners it may be because presence of 'rinth and more deathly wilderness, but ... I do not agree it is true for templars. On second thought, Halaster and Naiona are leading southorn templarate. Yes, it could be a bit more dangerous.

[Medena]

This is purely my opinon and I really have nothing concrete on which to base it, but I think that having active templars is absolutely essential to maintaining the atmosphere of Allanak. I wouldn't say the same for Tuluk.  The last time I played in Tuluk there were always at least 3 templars of whom at least 2 were quite active. Though they were well played and added to many storylines, had they all suddenly disappeared, life would have gone on in Tuluk relatively unchanged.  Just try to imagine Allanak without any templars making regular rounds about town.

As for the noble numbers, they are pretty comparable, especially considering that Allanak has 3 noble houses for PC's and Tuluk only has 2. I don't have an opinion on the commoner roles.

Medena