If there were a third city-state it would be...

[LoD]

And again, I ask, what difference would it make if the population for Allanak was reasonably lowered to 20,000 to reflect a more rational and defensible figure? None.

The best answer for this is that the Imms neither have to rationalize nor defend any figure they choose.  It may not be realistic.  It may not be plausible.  It may simply be the whim of a madman sitting behind a terminal from which he gleans immense pleasure in Arm's complete inaccuracies.  Another thing they don't have to do is share with you the "how's" and "why's" to help you understand why something exists as it does.

You seem to be of the belief that to accept that explanation makes you something less than you should be, stagnant or perhaps irresponsible.  I think you put too much pressure on yourself.  There are no perfect moments, and if you wait for one - you'll die waiting.

So as we don't clutter up the board with our different opinions, I'll leave it with the agreement that some changes could be made to bring many issues in game to a more rational and defendable level, should the Imms so choose.  I just don't think it's a priority.

-LoD

[marko]

In my own view - my own opinion is the best one.

In your view - yours is the best.

That is why we'll never agree unless you originally agree with me.

How do the city states maintain their populations?  Well, as was pointed out Rome imported loads of grain.  Just so happens that Allanak does the same.

Does that explain all the food sources?  Nope 'cause there are more.  And you know what?  There are people starving in the streets.  Some people even eat the flesh of other people.  

What about water sources?  Well, I won't go into that since it's beyond the scope of OOC information and IC information.

[richter]

Allanak houses roughly half a million people.  Though not in the documents, this is official.

If it's not in the documents, then there's nothing preventing number modifications to be formally documented to reflect a more thought-out number.

Explanations as to why and how it is possible are priveleged information that should be chased in-game.  I'm sure Tektolnes has some reason to make a city-state and let people live there.

Rationalization.

Whatever experience you've had in former MUDs and weapon weights, or what people think about greek city-states, just doesn't really matter here.

That may be so, but it doesn't provide any defense for poor design.

Bone coming from animals and bone having any fixed strength are two very different things, and don't pretend that they're not.

Are you suggesting bone with fixed strength doesn't come from animals?  :roll:  Aside from the isilt reference, there's no explanation for how bone that isn't described as isilt is treated.

Zalanthas' sky is seen as red or orange in most parts.

And there are rational explanations for such phenomena.

Allanak is capable of supporting half a million citizens, though a vast majority of those live in terrible poverty.

Actually, you haven't proven it is capable of supporting half a million citizens.  What you've done is cite a figure when the documentation of the game provides an environment which supports a very different number.

What difference would it make?  It would make a difference when you have other groups with fixed numbers, such as tribes, mercenary companies and various other things.  If the population of Allanak was 20,000 then 10,000 would be slaves that maintain the entire huge city, another 500 or so would be templars or nobles, 8,000 or so would be elves or dwarves, leaving 1,500 free citizens in Allanak.  Say 500 of those are half-elves, leaving 1,000 citizens, over half of which are mercenaries.

Fixed numbers that aren't fixed within reason are just as poorly conceived.  So yes, adjustments would have to be made, which you just did above.  Wasn't that hard, was it?

The game is the way it is, richter.  Seeming small flaws in the game and pointing them out while trying to help is a positive thing.  Half-finding half-inventing basic flaws in the very core of the game and expecting THOSE to be fixed, creating a huge waste of time for the staff for no help whatsoever (an example would be having every other bone weapon edited to mention oil treatment to keep it from falling apart, or whatever) is not only not helpful, but it is also very annoying.

Poor game design is hardly "half-finding half-inventing".  Rationalizing ignorant mistakes is.  If game integrity matters so little, why bother with anything?  Just make it up as you go.

As for correcting mistakes, it actually doesn't take a lot of time.  Bone weapons don't actually have to be modified, only that such weapons which exceed reasonable material tolerances be removed/replaced with weapons which don't.

I can't say I'm familiar with this particular code, but if it's anything like that which I've worked with, it'd be as simple as:

Code Select Expand

olist +rapier
replace <vnum A> with <vnum B>

I am officially finished with this thread.  Please take a look at yourself, richter, at those boards, and try to picture how your posts are received, and take my word, as a normally rather nice person, that it's unlikely anyone cheers when they see you've made a new post.

And honestly, that's irrelevant to the point.  Whether they like me or not doesn't change anything I said, even if they want to kill the messenger because of the message.  If anyone has a problem with me, I really couldn't give a damn.  Not everyone agrees with me and not everyone disagrees with me (I'd be worried if the fanboys agreed with me).  It's a fact of life that people disagree.

So if "it's unlikely anyone cheers" (something I know is untrue as I've had several players agree with my points), I'd recommend your advice to them as well as yourself.  Ask yourself why someone pointing out a good-intentioned criticism draws negative response or feelings.  Is the problem the messenger or simply that you don't like the message?  Is it because you can't defend that which you support so you're forced to turn to rationalization and bitterness toward those who disagree?

If you really take the time to think about it, the answer might disturb you.

Take care,

Jason

[Boggis]

I'm positive that the Imms are not going to lower the population - the game is written up with a such figures in mind from the cities geographical size to the numbers of people in all the various levels of the different organisations, etc. This is not all going to be revised because one player is doing his nut in about how ridiculous the population size is - everybody else seems to be able to somehow rationalise the number without the cognitive dissonance making their head explode. Now, we can sit here and argue until the kanks come home but absolutely nothing is going to change because of our efforts. Personally, I'd prefer to put my effort into doing something which would actually yield a beneficial result and I'd prefer to see the Imms concentrating elsewhere too. If it really bothers you that much perhaps you can special app a dwarven defiler who's focus is "to bring the population sizes of the major centres of civilisation down to realistic levels".

[Rhyden]

Besides, with the PC death rate averaged with the NPC and possible VNPC mortalities, we'd run out of population to make our PCs with if there weren't at least half a million in Nak and Tuluk.

Back on Topic/

If there was a third city state, it'd have to have just as powerful a Sorc-King as Tuluk and Allanak along with ample military and fortifications or else it would go kaput, IMO.

[Angela Christine]

Part of the reason the number has to be on the high side is playability, so that the lives of the PCs make sense within world.  

Most PCs are either monumentally stupid or suicidally insane, at least compared to the VNPC masses.  During their VNPC childhoods most live typical, unremarkable lives, and then one day the get possessed by a player and become PCs, at which point they start hobnobbing with the nobility, meeting captains of industry, joining the army or a multi-national corporation, running out into the wilderness chasing fame and fortune, sticking their hands in the pockets of men with bad tempers and big swords, ignoring or avoiding their family and lifelong friends, or any number of other unlikely things.  To their VNPC friends and relatives, it must look like they have gone nuts . . . except that the VNPCs don't actually exist as individuals.  PCs act oddly, but in order to keep that behavior odd there has to be an ocean of normal people balancing them out.


In the past RL year (about 8 years IC) there have probably been more than a hundred PCs die in hunting accidents, I'm just guessing but hundreds doesn't seem unreasonable.   Since most hunters and trappers practice their profession for decades without dying, there must thousands of non-dead hunters out there working.  Hunting is dangerous, but not so dangerous that you'd think it was normal for 90% of hunters to die every year, maybe 10-20% die in a year but certainly no more than that.  Since it is dangerous, most people from cities doesn't want to be hunters.  If hunters make up a small portion of the total population, and PCs make up a small portion of hunters, there there must be a large population for there to be so many PC hunters.

Or take half-elves.  Half-elves are uncommon in the general population.  All of the PC half-elves that are going to be created in the next 15 IC years (roughly 2 RL years) must already exist as VNPC children, teenagers, and young adults.  That includes all the ones who will die 3 hours after creation, since they virtually lived many years before becoming PCs.   Dozens and dozens, probably hundreds of them.  Lets say that PCs make up half of the total half-elf population, the other half being NPCs and VNPCs that will never become PCs (in order for the NPC and VNPC population to set the bar for what is "normal" there have to be at least as many of them as there are PCs).  So there are definitely hundreds of half-elves alive right this minute in the Known World.  What portion of the population could reasonably be expected to be half-elven?  1%?  .1%? .01%?  I don't know.  Sexual relations between humans and elves seem to be very uncommon, most sexual encounters do not lead to pregnancy, and many half-elven children seem to be abandoned or so badly treated that many of them wouldn't survive to adulthood.  Second generation half-elves are also very rare, they don't seem to be big breeders.  If you have hundreds of half-elves, and only 1 in 1000 people is an half-elf, then you must have hundreds of thousands of people.


Keeping the virtual population large keeps PCs as small part of the total population.  If 40 PCs die during a big event, then that is a cataclysmic PC population turn over for that time-slot, but not necessarily a cataclysmic event for the general population.  You can assume that hundreds of people died in total (counting PCs, NPCs and VNPCs) but not that half the population of a city died just because half the PC population of that city died.  The large virtual population provides a necessary buffer.



Angela Christine

[Rindan]

So Allanak has a lot of people.  Kanks should imploded in on themselves.  There is a reason why insects are so small in the real world.  Exo-skeletons are absolutely worthless at supporting anything bigger then a mouse.  The desert should have almost no large predators.  Only one intelligent species should exist as the superior intelligent species tends to kill off competition quickly.   You should be able to walk across the top of the sea of silt as fine particles like that would compact into something hard very quickly.  If there is a lack of iron in the world, the Red Desert should not be red.  

The lack of realistic quality is endless.  I am sure I could fill up a page if I really was dying to do so.  That said, I very much do not want to log into the game one day and have my kank explode because its chitin can't support its own weight, much less mine.  I am more then happy to suspend my disbelief.  Yes, technically the Sea of Silt should not exist, but I can merrily rationalize its existence because I like the idea of a big sea of dust.  I also can ignore that red sands generally means lots of iron because I like the visage of a red sands desert.  In this same regard, I can rationalize the existent of a completely urban civilization with a population to rival Rome because I like the idea of a big fucking city in the middle of the desert.  My head does not explode when I realize that feeding that many people in a desert is hard or close to impossible.

The only thing that matters is that world is consistent to itself.  So, it is okay for kanks to wander around without imploding.  This also means that kank shell is actually decent armor, unlike the brittle crap that a real insect has.  Allanak has the means to support itself.  Burn Allanak's fields and the population will starve.  Hell, this has happened in the past.  Allanak had its fields burned and the population starved.  Blockade Allanak from the food it gets from other areas and the city will starve.  Do I give a damn that the square mileage of the fields might be less then they should be if they were growing Idaho potatoes?  No, so long as the game is consistent with itself.

The larger point is that the game is consistent with itself.  Its consistency goes down to the detail that is required and not a step further.  Want to rationalize kanks?  Okay, kanks have harder and lighter chitin then insects in real life.  Can the molecular formula of that chitin be justified?  Who gives a damn.  So, why can Allanak feed itself?  It can feed itself because it brings in enough food from other places in the empire and some other independent farming villages (all of which exist in game).  Cut Allanak off from those sources and the city starves.  What is the nutritional value of the crops Allanak grows and how much land areas does it require to feed half of a million people?  Who cares?  It is like asking why kank chitin is strong enough and light enough to support a kank.  If someone wants to figure out the land area of farming available and the required nutritional intake per square acre, more power to them.  Personally though, I would rather the imms work on expanding plots and adding to the game.

[Cenghiz]

An elkran starts his life as a reenegade close to Allanak. He gets chased just because of his ability, many times he gets injured and many times he hears the words: "MAGICKER!"...
The last drop, one day a man whom he saves from a beetle in a blinding storm, tries to kill him with a poisoned dagger. He says: "Fuck off!" and leaves to the deserts.
With his abilities which are too IC to explain deeply, he has the means to live in the desert without need to anyone and anything, since he's a master in his abilities. He keeps on an easy life, at the edge of the known world, where there are only creatures which are possibly too IC to name in here.
But then the problem arises: Loneliness.. He believes he needs companions, heads back to the closest city.. He manages to come across a couple, a rukkian man with his partner, a beautiful vivaduan. Arms crossed behind he approaches. After many promises that he means no harm, he befriends the couple. He finds out they also do hate the mundane life all around them and they're at the edge, about to growl "Fuck you all!" and head to the desert.
So he says: "Why not? Let's go." He takes them to his hideout close to the edge of the known world. With the rukkian's unbelieveable control over the sands and the stones, they build a simple dwelling and start living there.
Then... bad things happen. A defiler suddenly arrives one day, asking for loyalty in his fight against bla-bla-bla. They defend themselves and they defend well.. The rukkian dies. So does the defiler. After kicking the lopped off head of the defiler one last time and watching the rukkian's corpse crumbling to dust as one last grace from Ruk, they head back to the closest city.
This time they stay for long, managing to group with many magickers of all elements but nilaz, who hear their tales of a life away from the mundane world all around. They head back to the edge of the world with cheer. Rukkians build and feed the others, vivaduans summon the waters underground. Whirans scout in shifts in short range, while the Drovians wander the world every night seeking more citizens for the village. Elkrans and krathis, empowered by other magickers, slay anything mundane, or having the sign of Nilaz or sorcery in their souls.
They breed. With the increased population a new problem arises. Most children do not have any links to the elements of their parents. So a rule is set. All mundane folks of the village wear gems denoting their lack of power. They're mainly used for serving tasks and never let out of the city. The gemmed are not allowed to breed, for sure. They serve the magickers like slaves and die like the helpless fools they are, performing the long awaited avenge of the elementalist society upon mundane folks.
.................
One day this may be done IC.. Perhaps when the playerbase is more than 100 in peak times.

[Recharge]

I dont believe that hunting is a ineffective way to get food. Take a scrab for instance. A scrab is many times the size of a human and if a human were to kill that thing he'd probably have enough food to live off of for a few days. I understand one wouldnt be able to make a lot of money hunting but they would be fed fairly well.

[RogueWarrior]

This is terrible, it's taken me a while to come across this thread but...

Here's one of mine: The city-state would be ruled by an elven sorceror-queen and in this city-state elves would be the majority. All nobility and positions of power would be elves, humans would be considered the lowly scum, like vermin. By law of the sorceror-queen, females hold all positions of power and males are not allowed any sort of open power. To harm a female in any way is a death sentence. No non-elves with magicks are allowed to live. Elven mages are allowed to come and go openly as long as they don't use their powers in a harmful way within the city. Half-elves are slaves and servants, there are no free half-elves within the city.

Though it is a decent idea, I just have to pose one question...
Menzoberrazan(hope I spelled that right)?

[Dreamcatcher]

How about a city of Magickers? :twisted:

[Folker]

An odd gooey material is discovered within the territories where Mantises roam by Mantises themselves. It has organic properties and is quickly tried by the Mantis as nourishment. Oddly, the substance suddenly increase the intellect level of the Mantis, making some of them generate strong individual psionic personalities that allows more creativity and individual persuits lead by few extra individualistic mantises and the rest of the brood under their psionic influence. With time, as the substance is sought out further, first signs of a gignatic egg are found underneath the ground. Once further investigated an odd entity is sensed who then introduces itself as the child of The Dragon, yet to break through the shell of it's egg. Strangely, the egg is exhuming that substance that is lately found out to allow any mortal wield considerable magical and psionic powers for a limited time in exchange for addiction and slight alteration within the psyche. With time, a whole settlement appears around the egg, with ruling entities of humen, elven, and mantises intermixed rule over their slaves with power granted by feeding onto that strange substance, while the slaves dig and carry in order to dig the gigantic egg century after century..

[JustThisGuy]

Another sentient (and probably humanoid) race is discovered living under
the surface of the Known World that was, previously, as ignorant about
the topside world as it was of them. Pretty much anything can happen,
here. Except molemen, that's been done to death.

Brahm was doing a sociology thing for school and created some concept like this that, I think, was going to be implemented.  Of course, that was, like, a decade ago.

[kelviksson]

I somewhat like larrath's idea about the Gith. I have thought them to be a primal race...not really caring about anything other than their days meal or they're own self benefit.  

What if...one of the gith tribes could actually think...and had a bit more to go on than instinct.

I figured maybe a noble who was very ambitious, would find a use for the gith, and educate them somewhat. Like, a noble from allanak wants the gith to move north to start roaming the roads near tuluk and disrupt their trade a bit. For the Gith's services, he somehow finds a way to make them realize that they would be granted safety and trade in the south, and they would slowly benefit from this. Drawn by one tribes success, the wandering gith return to benefit from this. The gith leader's fight over power through duel's...and one emerges as the strongest. The gith follow his rule, and slowly, over time, develope a village....and through the trade with allanak, it would grow.

Now. What would thisd city do? A barbaric race of humaniods with a loose form of culture...Well, I would think the elven tribes would be in somewhat of danger near the Gith's city, for the gith wouldn't be on any restrictions concerning the deaths of tribals.  Over time, maybe the gith could either learn from Allanak's or Tuluk's social structure, (but that would be near impossible) or, they could develope a loose social ranking system, where the strongest gith warriors are the leaders in the city, and they serve under their lord, the Gith king.

Now the last little bit I thought of, is that the noble who initiated all of this, if he was still alive, would be allowed into the gith city, and he could teach sirihish to the Gith King, and the king in turn to his vassals, and it would filter down into society.

Why not?

[Intrepid]

Primal is not how I would describe gith myself.  They're assholes, actually.
Gith are intelligent and sentient, capable of strategic thinking and cruel
action.  They're dangerous because they're a malevolent force in the
wastes that wants everyone's belongings and lives.  Brutality is as natural
to them as breathing is to everyone else.  They pretty much are to the
character races what the character races are to Earth humans.

[JustThisGuy]

Ummm...I haven't the time to read all the suggestions, and it would seem the topic got derailed anyway.  If you ask me, the best concept for a new citystate would be a dwarven one.  Not just dwarves, mind you, but one that is founded and ruled by dwarves.  Even better, and I know this is not so much a concept common to our dwarves, they should find a big 'ol cavern somewhere to build the city.  Dwarves have so much more reason to band together.  Tribal elves have their tribes and are too distrusting to unite with other tribes.  We already have two "human" city states (I will gladly concede they are not really human, but you get my meaning).  The dwarves have the drive and determination to make it happen (AKA focus) and they have the motivation (dwarven slavery ring a bell?)  Ahh, screw it.  I'm going to make it happen IC.  See you all on the front lines when we storm 'Nak!!

[titansfan]

I think that JustThisGuy has has a good point. Dwarves definetly have the ability to run their own city. I mean it wouldn't be the most civilized city but it would create an awesome rping environment and open a new plate for players who prefer dwarven play.

[Packersfan]

First of all, Titansfan: there can be only one NFL fan on this gdb from Wisconsin and that is me. NOT TO MENTION YOU ARE FROM WISCONSIN AND YOU MUST LIKE THE PACKERS.

But I digress. I would love to see a predominantly Dwarven city-state.

[spawnloser]

F dwarves...sure, they may be great at running a city, but they may also have ridiculous difficulty, depending on foci.

[Akaramu]

A very interesting discussion. If we ever have enough players to support it, I would love to see a new city state emerge. I believe the main question is, however, how and where would it emerge? It would need time to grow without being crushed by the existing sorcerer kings. The possibilities I see are:

-An existing outpost develops to the size of a city.

-A secret settlement has developed beyond the attention of the existing city states, maybe somewhere underground, and survived long enough to develop massive defenses and not be easily overthrown as it is now discovered.

-Somehow, the border of the known world expands, and there are now means to travel a bit further. Slightly beyond the formerly known world, a new city-state is discovered. It is hard to reach, and ruled by forces powerful enough to make Tek or Muk Utep think twice about trying to overrun it.

My personal favourite is the last option, but I doubt it would happen as it would take up horrible amounts of staff time to write that many new rooms and expand the known world.

If I wrote it up, it would be somewhat inspired by George R.R. Martin's city of Braavos - without all of the water. A strange, exotic place which has access to all sort of goods, many of them previously unknown, which are highly priced in the other city states and would open up options for trade routes. The city would be very hard, but not impossible to reach, and travel would be more dangerous than riding from Allanak to Tuluk and back currently is. This new city is ruled by a temple which claims to have power over life and death, its templars clad in black and white, and a warrior caste that employs beastmasters with the ability to tame and train monsters and send them into battle. The city has a fabled and strange culture, where common merchants dress in silks and jewelry, but highborn men wear sandcloth robes and masks, and duel for the favor of courtesans whose fame is nearly legendary.

[EvilRoeSlade]

This new city is ruled by a temple which claims to have power over life and death, its templars clad in black and white, and a warrior caste that employs beastmasters with the ability to tame and train monsters and send them into battle.

So all their soldiers fight with... pokemon'?

[Intrepid]

The city state of Riphia.

Flag: Three vibrant blue diamonds symbolizing the constellation Riphia
against a dark brown field; the queen is credited for being that figure in
the night sky and for constructing the city, naming it for herself.  The
three diamonds symbolize the major noble houses of the city-state.

West of the Tablelands, north of the Canyons of Waste is an isolationist
city that broke its ties from the rest of the Known World long ago.  The
Canyons of Waste as you know them today are, in fact, the ruins of three
trade routes intersecting from the high plateaus of the Eba'Zir region to
the lower altitudes of Vrun Driath and Abili'Pah.  There was once a trading
village that defied the powerful queen of that city.  She did, in her mad
haste for revenge, permanently cut off the city from the remainder of the
Known World for all time.

The city contains many of the normal aspects of a city-state: Dwarves,
elves, muls, half-giants, templars, elementalists, criminals, merchants,
and so on.  However, over time, the forced isolation of the city has made
some distinct changes on the society.

As a provision, all military is drafted from the populace: no questions
asked.  Most individuals serve a two to four year term and are released;
exemplary performance leads to promotion and a career.  Magickers of
all stripes are hunted down and killed just for being what they are.  If a
psi is found, however, they are pressed into service for the city as one of
the Queen's assistants.   These individuals are the equals of templars and
nobles, but are not born into service, which creates what she considers
"healthy tension" between the groups.  These psis are feared by the
populace in much the same way elementalists are in Allanak.  It is very
rare for a psi to turn down the chance for promotion, but the occasional
one does and either becomes an outlaw or is executed by the other psis.

There is only one major merchant house in the city due to the limited
supplies of the surrounding area.  This house is owned by Riphia's
templars and helps maintain order and distribution of goods in the city.
Independent merchants rise from time to time, but House Riphia does try
to buy them into the fold if they become too powerful (think Microsoft).
Any who try to resist must either become outlaws (leading to a black
market of sorts) or be executed.

Three major noble houses, each with two vassals (on average) run the
acquisition of raw materials and foodstuffs that keep the city-state
operating.  The leading house's elders are said to become the personal
lovers and consorts of the Queen herself; the lowest of the vassal houses
are said to service the populace in an elaborate festivals that they are
forced to pay for out of their own pockets.  As such, the competition
amongst the nobles to at least avoid being the losers is fierce.  Over the
course of history, three or four houses have actually been wiped out in
the infighting.  What usually happens is a new house is formed from the
family of the most prominent templar or psi without a noble clan to claim
them...and thus the mad cycle continues.

The templars are said to be conduits to Riphia itself, able to automatically
take control of and enlist any commoner against their will...even criminals.
During these brief periods of time, commoners have reported wielding
strange powers and being able to perform bizarre physical feats under
their controlling templar's command.  A lone templar is more vulnerable,
but even they have been said to make the strange architecture of the
city come to life and defend them.

Most criminals in the city reside inside a system of tunnels beneath the
city itself, lower even than the sewer system, known as the Bowels.  They
are cracks and passageways in the architecture of what is thought to be
the city predating Riphia itself, but no one says that in front of the
templarate.  There, escaped merchants, escaped magickers, elves, the
occasional escaped psi and other misanthropes eke out a living far from
the eyes of civilization...or die trying.

Citizens wear their hair long, dying it the colors of their station.  This is
often matched by elaborate designs carved into their backs at puberty to
ensure authenticity.  Forgery of station is punishable by death.  As you
can imagine, dwarves and muls generally have no station other than
slave (sorry guys).

The high altitude and distance from both the Red Desert and the Silt Sea
has granted more vegetation to the area, allowing for silk, fruits, nuts and
vegetables to be harvested.  Pooling sufficient water, clay has been used
for tablets due to the absence of wood (and therefore paper).  Most other
hard stones and rocks are difficult to come by.  The climate is cooler and
moister, but the air is thinner...presumably the reason for the site of the
city's construction.

All templars are considered to be Riphia's children and all nobles are
considered to be her relatives.  For unknown reasons, a single commoner
is sometimes adopted into the higher castes by Riphia.  Due to the
legendary temper of the Queen, no one asks why.  None but the highest
ranks of the templarate and nobles ever see the Queen, and they have
all been tight-lipped about it.

Decadence and pageantry are the order of the day.  Parades, stunning
shows and excess are lavished upon the commoners of the city.  And
despite all of this, the city is dying.  Isolation has created strains of
inbreeding among the populace and lack of decent stones and hard
materials is causing the city to crumble and fray along the edges.  The
Known World factors into their mythos, and many (particularly elves)
have begun trying to re-establish the old pathways back into the rest of
the Known World and a reconnection to the trades long denied to them.

[Spoon]

Ok, didn't read all 7 pages, but has anyone said "empty" yet?

[Intrepid]

Addendum...

Sandstorms are non-existent, but hailstorms and random strikes of
lightning are all too common.  In fact, most of the moisture in the Eba'Zir
consists of melted hail.  Rainfall is non-existent, but dew does settle at
night.  It is not uncommon for the high altitudes to cause wild weather
changes and even nighttime freezes, making travel by night across the
limited landscape potentially dangerous.

[Ritley]

Addendum...

Sandstorms are non-existent, but hailstorms and random strikes of
lightning are all too common.  In fact, most of the moisture in the Eba'Zir
consists of melted hail.  Rainfall is non-existent, but dew does settle at
night.  It is not uncommon for the high altitudes to cause wild weather
changes and even nighttime freezes, making travel by night across the
limited landscape potentially dangerous.

I dunno... addendum doesn't really sound right... how about....  the mystical city of nightfall

or... Tier's outpost