Thank you very much

[Thunder Lord]

I never thought of changing my ldesc -with- every single emote.  It is brilliant! I love it! It is seemingly pointless but adds so much into the game and allows you to -really- be aware of what your character is doing.
Who ever I saw doing this, thank you for doing so. It makes RP much more facinating even if I didn't get to actually RP with you. DOn't stop doing it! The high standard of emotes and ldesc really blows my mind!

Also thank you to everyone who puts effort into making good emotes. I absolutely -love- seeing good emotes! If I have to PK you, and you are a good emoter, I promise I will give you an awesome death.  Not just kill:bash:die.

[Agent_137]

in my world, good != flowery. Keep that in mind. More adjectives does not mean better.

But as for having ldesc match your emotes, that's fantastic when possible. Ldescs, espescially in higher traffic areas, are sexy.

and as mentioned here:
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14968

adding the world into your emotes = winner.

[Manhattan]

dont kill good emoters, let their pc's live. jeez

[Tamarin]

Constant long flowery emotes = roleplay masturbation.  And it WILL make your palms grow hair.  And jesus will cry.

[bloodfromstone]

I have to throw in with the dislike for flowery emotes crowd. Huge words and multiple adjectives per action don't make good emoting. It's all about getting the image of your character and the world around him/her across, not showing off your ability to use a thesaurus. Not directed at anyone specific, just my two 'sids on that.

Change ldesc is fantastic, however. I don't use it enough, but I'm trying to use it more and more. It can have a big effect on someone walking into a scene. It also saves you from having to throw in an extra emote to tell what's going on every time someone new ambles in.

Anyway, highfive to good emoters and ldesc changers. Keep 'em coming.

[Sandstorm Phoenix]

I have to throw in with the dislike for flowery emotes crowd.

Yeah, same here.   Keep it succinct, pithy, and brief.  

While I don't let it affect my character's IC actions and reactions, personally I cringe whenever I see one of those three line emo-nsters.

[Rindan]

I personally like nice and flowery emotes.  The more it feels like I am reading a novel, the more I like it.  Granted, people who try and emote using words they clearly don't understand don't impress me, but if you can be creative and bring in a few more senses then the usual, mad props to you.

The ugly half-elf grins as he eyes the pile of obsidian on the table.
Licking his lips before speaking, the ugly half-elf says in Sirhish,
"I think we made out just fine boys..."
Nothing wrong with this emote.

A cruel smile slowly creeps across the ugly half-elf's face as he eyes the pile of obsidian on the old scared table.
The ugly half elf runs his dry tongue across his parched and cracked lips.
With a hint of malice in his voice, the ugly half-elf says in Sirhish,
"I think we made out just fine boys..."
But this fleshes out the scene much better.

I think the bigger issue is that people feel that people who do this are trying to show off or show someone up.  People need to get over their egos.  If someone is putting the extra effort into fleshing out the world in a little more detail, it isn't them trying to put you down.  That sort of mentality is the reason why people who try and RP in other games like WoW or other less RP oriented MUDs take so much crap.  Some power gamer thinks someone who is trying to RP is just being an elitist ass hole.  The truth is that the RPer just wants to RP.  Don't take it as a personal offense if they describe the scene in more detail then you.

I personally greatly enjoy being around people that put in the effort into their emoting.  It is nice to be reminded that the Storm's Eye is a smoky and dusty tavern, or that the Gaj is loud and poorly lit, that sandstorms involve terrible skin scouring winds that drowned out all sound, or that walking down an alleyway in Allanak probably involves stepping through shit.  It is nice to occasionally have the world painted with a finer brush.

[Maybe42or54]

I think every emote is good.
As long as it doesn't take them 10-15 minutes to type the dman thing out.

[Tamarin]

Those aren't flowery.  Here's flowery.

"His cerulean-toned irises gleaming in the luminous glow of the ambient torchlight, the resulting color a delicious and tantalizing appetizer of warmth upon his cheeks, the swirl-eyed, shadow-shrouded man eyes you with the curiosity of a mind dominated by subtle, troubled thoughts."

That is friggin' excessive.  And I've seen it.  And it drives me nuts.  You know what he could have done instead?

"emote looks at you."

[Maybe42or54]

Where the hell do people come up with that shit?
I'm jealous.

[Cegar]

Shorter emotes = good

[Tamarin]

Where the hell do people come up with that shit?
I'm jealous.

Dickens.  And quite frankly, I hate Dickens, so I don't want to have to choke on it while I'm playing armageddon.

[Rindan]

Those aren't flowery.  Here's flowery.

"His cerulean-toned irises gleaming in the luminous glow of the ambient torchlight, the resulting color a delicious and tantalizing appetizer of warmth upon his cheeks, the swirl-eyed, shadow-shrouded man eyes you with the curiosity of a mind dominated by subtle, troubled thoughts."

That is friggin' excessive.  And I've seen it.  And it drives me nuts.

That isn't bad because it is "flowery", it is bad because it is full of subjective crap that shouldn't be in an emote.  Expression thoughts and exessive use of subjective terms in an emote is n00b mistake 101.  Parts of it make close to zero sense.  Finally, I am pretty damn sure that has way too many characters.  Take out the subjective crap, the parts that make no sense, and the one obscure word and it is a fine emote.

"His dark-blue toned irises gleaming in the luminous glow of the ambient torchlight, the swirl-eyed, shadow-shrouded man eyes you with a look of troubled curiosity."

If by "flowery" you mean, "using subjective language, shitty grammar, and making no sense", we agree, it sucks.

[amoeba]

If by "flowery" you mean, "using subjective language, shitty grammar, and making no sense", we agree, it sucks.

Flowery is like the rococo period of art. A well done bit can be interesting, but mostly it's gaudy and irritating on the eyes.  It's when people equate more with better.  A single simple shaker chest can be just as pleasing if not more so on the eyes than a baroque divan with so many intricate carvings that it looks like it will explode with obsessivenes.  The same is true for writing.  Simple does not always equate to bad. Fancy assed (aka flowery) does not always equate to good.

[Rindan]

Speaking of wording, let's use more precise language.  Flowery is clearly invoking different imagines to different people.  So let's just make a list.

Good emoting:
- Relatively grammatically correct
- Objective writing
- Describes the scene
- Timely (realizing that timely solo emoting is different from timely combat emoting)

Great emoting:
- Uses multiple senses
- Points out subtle details in the environment
- Reminds people of the general 'feel' of the environment
- Describes the scene in high detail

Bad emoting:
- Highly subjective writing
- A massive run on sentence
- Overly obscure wording
- Fails to describe the scene
- Poor timing

Personally, I have met very few bad emoters in Armageddon.  Of those bad emoters, most were complete newbies who were making simple n00b mistakes, like emoting that they are thinking about going shopping.  I have seen extremely few veteran players who were poor emoters.  In fact, I honestly can't recall having ever seen anyone but n00bs emote poorly (and most of them learned to emote well very quickly).  I certainly have never run into someone who emotes like in Tamarin's example.  The vast majority of people are what I describe as 'good' emoters.  They follow basic grammar rules, describe the scene, and in general do a good job.  

There are a handful of people out there that I consider 'great' emoters.  They do everything a good emoter does, but show that they are constantly aware of their surroundings by including subtle details that are easily overlooked.  I personally find these people inspiring to be around.  Around a good emoter, watching them smoke spice is a relatively uneventful undertaking.  They smoke, they emote, end of story.  Around a great emoter though, watching them do something as simple as smoke spice turns into a treat.  You get a sense of what it looks like, how it smells, and whatever subtle descriptions they slip in.  Being around people like that makes me want to put the extra effort into my own emoting.

There are times when the pace of Armageddon grinds to a crawl.  Even the most exciting positions have down time.  When the game play has slowed to a snails pace is when I really appreciate great emoters the most.  If I am going to sit around being bored, I would prefer to be entertained by someone describing what they are doing and bring the environment alive with rich detail then sit around in a silent and dead room.  A good emoter turns a dull black and white world into a vibrant world full of color.  Resenting someone for bringing a little color into the world is just ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Lost in all the criticism is the fact that at least people are fucking trying.

Honestly I could give two shits about how big or flowery your emote is so long as you have the typing speed to pull it off.  Having been held hostage by a player that insisted on long-winded emotes but was apparently a hunt'n-pecker at the keyboard was one of my least favorite Armageddon experiences.  If it's taking you longer than two minutes to say 'yes' you are probably detracting from the scene not adding to it.

Oh and by 'held hostage' I mean OOCly, not ICly.

That's my thoughts on it, anyways.

[Tamarin]

I concur.

[jhunter]

Having been held hostage by a player that insisted on long-winded emotes but was apparently a hunt'n-pecker at the keyboard was one of my least favorite Armageddon experiences.

Me too. It was so bad I started avoiding them as much as I could, chalking it up to coincidence IC. I just couldn't help it, I got to the point where I was seriously considering watching a movie or something when interacting with this person because they took so damned long between emotes.

[Kalden]

In fact, I honestly can't recall having ever seen anyone but n00bs emote poorly (and most of them learned to emote well very quickly). I certainly have never run into someone who emotes like in Tamarin's example. The vast majority of people are what I describe as 'good' emoters. They follow basic grammar rules, describe the scene, and in general do a good job.

Strange. I hardly ever run into what I consider 'good' emoters. They meet the bare mininium. I'd say 70-80% of the people I see are "nodders who smile and speak".

I take it you haven't been playing in Allanak lately.

"His cerulean-toned irises

Heh...I have little respect for cerulean-eyed people to begin with.

[bloodfromstone]

I don't have a problem with basic smiles and nods emotes. They're not replacement for more detailed descriptions for more complicated expressions, but on casual circumstances, people just smile simply quite often in RL. Though probably less with the nodding, in all realism.

[amoeba]

I don't have a problem with basic smiles and nods emotes. They're not replacement for more detailed descriptions for more complicated expressions, but on casual circumstances, people just smile simply quite often in RL. Though probably less with the nodding, in all realism.

Simple is fine at times.  I thought a lot about the nodding issue. I tend to do it more than I like. Nodding seems to be mostly used to either a method of showing affirmation or showing that you are paying attention.   In RL you can simply look at the other guy and see if he is paying attention, you don't need him to affirm it every few sentences.

If you want to avoid the repetitive nodding and still want to accomplish the same goals stated above, understanding that these needs (agreeing and showing attentiveness) come up many, many times, what suggestions would you have for doing this?  Please simple ones,  ones little wimpy emoters like myself can accomlish easily in short order, no linquistic gymnastics please.

[bloodfromstone]

I've thought about this, myself. It's not easily accomplished without the emoting being either stale or awkward. Like you said, in RL conversations, people just tend to look at each other. In game, that would result in people emoting listens to you or watches you as you speak, which just seems silly to me.
Sadly, I don't have the answer, as I'm an overly frequent nodder myself. :/

[jmordetsky]

...but was apparently a hunt'n-pecker at the keyboard

LOL. I have no idea why hunt'n-pecker just brought hysterical images to my mind but it did, I'm cackling and wanted to share.

[IntuitiveApathy]

I've thought about this, myself. It's not easily accomplished without the emoting being either stale or awkward. Like you said, in RL conversations, people just tend to look at each other. In game, that would result in people emoting listens to you or watches you as you speak, which just seems silly to me.
Sadly, I don't have the answer, as I'm an overly frequent nodder myself. :/

Well, you could make use of the ever versatile change ldesc command and say something like:

The mangy-haired mutt is here, his attention on the wonky kitty.

Often I wish I could include the standard emote syntax in change ldesc.. mostly because I find the character limitation on it to be far too short (I'd like to include your sdesc, but it's just too long, Frank).

Eg.

change ldesc his attention on ~kitty.

Room sees:

The mangy-haired mutt is here, his attention on the wonky, neon blue kitty.

Kitty sees:

The mangy-haired mutt is here, his attention on you.

..

But maybe that's just wishful thinking.

Plus, it doesn't do much if the people don't look around much while they're engrossed in conversation.

So often when I'm engaged in conversation with someone, to show that I'm paying attention to them and engaged with them, I just do:

talk (to ~kitty) Boy your whiskers almost look good enough to eat today.

Short and to the point and easy enough to include with every conversation item.

[Manhattan]

In game, that would result in people emoting listens to you or watches you as you speak, which just seems silly to me.

what's wrong with that? how is it silly?  :?

[bloodfromstone]

It's not silly as in it doesn't make sense to be doing that. It just seems like it's an action that wouldn't need to be reaffirmed more than once.

[joyofdiscord]

Yeah, but you don't just stare at someone when you listen, eyes growing increasingly glassy.  What are your eyes doing?  Eye contact is an important part of listening, in our culture at least.  But it isn't constant, people look away.  Their gaze gives away clues to what they think about what they are hearing.  The eyes are the window to the soul for a reason.  Use them!

[bloodfromstone]

Good suggestion. I'm trying to break away from constantly nodding, so I'll definitely add that to the list of things to try out.

[JollyGreenGiant]

emote reads this thread, his eyes growing increasingly glassy.

[Cenghiz]

Once I had an elkrosian gemmer.. According to his element, he was supposed to be very very quick in speaking, faster than most people and he was used to jumping from one topic to another, just like hyperactive teenagers do.
And there was one of the folks I spoke to. I remember once asking her a question, then speaking about a topic to her, then turning to another person and having a quick chatter. Just after those, she sent the mud a two and a half lines long emote.
What did I do? I had to ignore it.. I was facing the other man then.
.....
Please, if you're having difficulty finding the locations of the keys on the keyboard, start with simple emotes. As you get faster, you can longer emotes.

[Malifaxis]

emote reads this thread, his eyes growing increasingly glassy.

em wanders off, muttering.

[Larrath]

As long as they don't take ten minutes (I tend to take up to four minutes for a very long emote, personally) for each emote and treat the environment correctly, I think flowery emotes are good.  I mean, what's the alternative?  Sitting at the bar idling and 'looking' at people who come in and actually try to emote and make them feel stupid for trying?

Yes, excessiveness is bad, but idling is worse.  And while idleness can spread in a room like some disease (I'm sure everyone remembers sitting in some tavern for over an hour with four PCs around and doing nothing), people who DO emote encourage other people to move a little.

I've run into four very flowery emoters I believe, and though I don't know their players, I still hold them in very high regard.
If you think you can do better emotes than what those 'flowery idiots' are doing, please show your superior ability the next time there's a bunch of people stuck idling in a tavern.

And I swear to God, the next time someone looks at me with no emote and then idles again after I try to emote, I will kill that player.  Grrr.

[Anonymous]

Four minutes dude?

[IntuitiveApathy]

Four minutes dude?

I don't know about you guys, but if you're a slow typer, I'd much rather you just respond with something short and sweet in a reasonable amount of time rather than something fanastic but takes 4 minutes.  Even 1 minute is pushing it.. have you ever tried to hold a conversation with someone that takes 1 minute in between responses?

[marko]

I read a log of a character of mine and a two - four minute emoter.  It was fun.

Starts with X's awesome say / emote.

Followed by about a dozen speculative thinks on my char's part on why X takes so long to speak.

Another of X's awesome say / emotes.

Followed by about fifteen speculative thinks about, more or less, the same thing.

Well... I'm happy to say that X is now a much faster typer and his emotes are still as wonderful.

[Maybe42or54]

Don't forget that 10 minutes in real life is an Hour IG.
So if you are typing one emote/say in 4 minutes, that is half a damn hour.
OOC, I'll respect you for trying. IC, I am going to ignore you.