Trying to lead the blind

[Frustrated]

Hypothetical situation:

As a leader in House Amos, you notice a newbie. Newbie needs a job, so you take the time to recruit him and bring him in to your clan, show him the ropes, and hopefully teach him about the game. Newbie shows potential, but it becomes clear fairly quickly that what me mosts wants to do is run around using skills as much as possible to improve at them rather than play a role. You try being patient ICly and OOCly with newbie, and hope you're getting through, but only with marginal success. Newbie would still rather do things that are extremely ICly stupid and dangerous for him and bad for House Amos. Eventually you attempt to ride Newbie hard ICly, hoping to whip him into shape. Instead, you apparently frustrate him to the point where he suicides his character in a predictably stupid fashion.

So...

Should you feel frustrated with yourself for not doing a better job teaching Newbie about the game, or is this part of the natural learning curve that some people need to go through?

Do players like the one described deserve to be cut less/more slack than usual until they catch the RPI spirit of the game?

Were you being too much of an idealist to think you could de-twinkify a twink newbie?  

What have other past/present clan leaders done in situations like this?

And does anyone have any success or failure stories to share?

While I've tried to be as general as possible, the above situation is of course based on something that happened in game, and it's pretty demoralizing.

[Spoon]

I wondering if dropping a line to your clan Imm would help, and then they could contact the player.

Would it be good form to contact the player yourself (through PM or email) and tell then they simply can't keep act like that IG (and of course give them a few pointers)?

As for failure stories, I haven't had a played a PC in a combat-oriented clan in over a year... It's bliss not having to deal with these people, but also a little cowardly. Though, I think the main problem is people don't tell these newer players how it is and just go with the flow... In one instance, a fellow player with a leadership role trained one of these players so hard they ended up having superior combat skills to my sergeant PC within a few days, who had been with the clan for IG years. Now THAT was irritating, considering the player couldn't even string a sentence together.

[waroth]

Don't sweat it.  You don't want a player like that in your clan to begin with.  Eventually, he could mature as a player and get better.  For now, let the Imms know about his RP and let them deal with correcting him.  Consider it a favor he axed himself.

[Cuusardo]

Hey, you gave it your best shot.  Remember, you aren't Jesus.  You can't save everybody from themselves.   :wink:

[Revelations]

Hey, you gave it your best shot.  Remember, you aren't Jesus.  You can't save everybody from themselves.   :wink:

Actually, even Jesus can't save someone if that person isn't willing. Just let the player go, and hope that s/he either learns the trade or move on to another mud.

[marko]

Hypothetical situation:
Should you feel frustrated with yourself for not doing a better job teaching Newbie about the game, or is this part of the natural learning curve that some people need to go through?

No, you should not feel frustrated with yourself.  You put in a lot of effort to try and help out but in this case the fit between the newbie and the offering wasn't there.  These things happen so don't sweat it.

Do players like the one described deserve to be cut less/more slack than usual until they catch the RPI spirit of the game?

Nope.  If I encounter a player who is clearly attempting to ignore their role for the betterment of their skills (aka powergaming) I will attempt to channel that or get them out of the House.  Skill gainers have great potential when treated as such - but you don't grant them any slack.  I merely attempt to identify what they find enjoyable to do and send them off doing it.

For example, when I was in a leadership role in House Noble House I came across the powergamers regularly.  My solution?  Send them out on short, completeable missions on a constant and regular basis.  That way they could engage in their skilling up while providing a service.

Were you being too much of an idealist to think you could de-twinkify a twink newbie?  

I'm a twink.  There's no way I could de-twinkify a newbie.  

What have other past/present clan leaders done in situations like this?

I attempt to channel it as indicated above.  The worst case scenario is that the person dies in the service of the House.  Happily, when that happens, they have good memories of the events and will often attempt to rejoin.

And does anyone have any success or failure stories to share?

I've had success in that a very skill oriented newbie advanced in a House to a sigificant level and continued to enjoy themselves.  After that character died they started a new one and that new one wasn't as skill oriented as the last.  

While I've tried to be as general as possible, the above situation is of course based on something that happened in game, and it's pretty demoralizing.

Just keep in mind that what people want out of the game is not always the same thing as everyone else.  A lot of people are seeking action oriented roles and find that the restrictions placed upon them by a House simply do not fit well with them.  Most of the time it isn't a matter of failure it is a matter of not being a good fit.

You did what you could and tried to give them a place - it just so happened that it wasn't meant to be.  Therefore, don't sweat it, don't linger, and move on.  You aren't a failure in a leadership role - you just had a conflict of opinion.  

[jhunter]

Me, I just tried to keep them busy and keep it IC. I'm not going to break character and act OOCly for someone who isn't roleplaying.

I try to stick to: Even if -they- are acting OOCly, as long as you are acting IC yourself they will suffer the IC consequences for their actions.

The most you can really do is try and get them to realize that their actions have consequences and hopefully they will catch on and begin acting more IC. If not, they will go get themselves killed eventually and then...good riddance.

You can't get someone to roleplay who isn't really interested in roleplaying. Once they realize that this is what Armageddon is about, if they weren't interested in roleplaying they will move on.

[adrien]

newbs are good target practice  :twisted: