A non-official request for players with karma

[Nao]

Simple solution:
Make karma spendable.

I kind of like this idea.  Considering the  rate of giving karma is bumped up...

Yeah it might be a very cool solution.

I don't like the idea, at all. Even if I'll probably stick with 0 karma forver, but... I've seen this on another mud. Everyone will keep saving uo for those 4, 5, 7 or whatever karma role and no one plays the 1 karma things. 1 karam roles are underrepresented because everyone hesistates to spend karma. It sucks, badly.

[proxie]

Not entirely true that people will always save up.

Some of us would love to get to play one of those low point elementalists. Some of us don't think we'd ever be able to grasp the mindset of a mul or a sorc.

And even your uber kool half giant sorcerer gets boring after a while. Also, the imms may someday decline Jimbob's 8th sorcerer in a row with the comment "We'd like to see you try something different this time. Think on it please?" You never know.

I personally would wait to have more than one point, just because the last time I tried a delf, it was a rip roaring failure and everyone involved was reasonably unhappy by the time she kicked off.   :lol:  I'd rather have something else under my belt before I try and grasp that mindset again. Pretty sure I'd have a better handle of it, but eh, I'm a bit on the cautious side. Once bitten, thrice shy.

Proxie

[Gaare]

Simple solution:
Make karma spendable.

Sounds fine at first glance, but I guess that would not be a good solution because it gives much more burden to IMMs, since they are obligated to grant Karma much more then usual. Also I do not like Karma to be seen as a kind of reward really, and SoI Mud (which is the single MUD I know uses that system) focused its karma system on rewarding players with extra roles. I maybe mistaken since I did not have chance to play that MUD but I sensed It is also a bit of control mechanism as well. When points are coming and going that fast, a player feels the breath of IMM.

IMHO ARM's system lies on trusting its fellow players' maturity (even we, players time to time do not trust each other), so I believe Naiona's gentle reminder should be enough solution.

[Cuusardo]

Do the IMMs ever reject applications on those grounds?

[Nao]

Simple solution:
Make karma spendable.

Sounds fine at first glance, but I guess that would not be a good solution because it gives much more burden to IMMs, since they are obligated to grant Karma much more then usual. Also I do not like Karma to be seen as a kind of reward really, and SoI Mud (which is the single MUD I know uses that system) focused its karma system on rewarding players with extra roles. I maybe mistaken since I did not have chance to play that MUD but I sensed It is also a bit of control mechanism as well. When points are coming and going that fast, a player feels the breath of IMM.

IMHO ARM's system lies on trusting its fellow players' maturity (even we, players time to time do not trust each other), so I believe Naiona's gentle reminder should be enough solution.

Well, I have played there, and from how I see it, you're right the system there is much more problematic. I like the one we currently have much better, as stated somethere http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14351&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30 there, too. Roles don't cost 'karma', only races do, but there is still some stuff going wrong there.

[jhunter]

I think the system is fine the way it is. People do need to just stop making high-karma role after high-karma role. Mix it up a bit. Issue resolved.

[Rindan]

One potential solution would be to make karma slowly regnerate.  So, lets say I have 7 karma.  I decide to play a sorc and so spend all 7 karma and die after 3 hours.  Now I have zero karma.  Each two weeks (or whatever) I regain a point of karma until I am back up to 7.   So, have semi-expendable karma.  Once you get a point, you keep that point.  If you spend it, your max karma doesn't change, just how much you have to spend.  Over time your karma builds back up.  Think of it something like hit points in how you can lose them, but can always get them back by simply waiting.  If you tend to play long lived characters, you wouldn't even notice, as your karma would regen fully before you die.  If you try and burn through 5 karma 5 magikers in a week, you won't be able to.  The karma system basically stays the same and the imms don't do any more work, but you limit how quickly and often people can play karma roles.

[Nao]

I like that idea.. Problem is, it still wouldn't keep anyone from playing five long-lived sorcerer muls in a row... but that would definitely be an improvement, especially if we work on that a bit ig and don'T let the gemmers live long  :twisted:

[Armaddict]

...why are we talking about potential solutions, exactly?

The -solution- is simple.  Play a karma race/class, enjoy it, and move on.  If you liked it a lot, give it some time before you play it again.

Is it -really- this difficult?

[Angela Christine]

...why are we talking about potential solutions, exactly?

The -solution- is simple.  Play a karma race/class, enjoy it, and move on.  If you liked it a lot, give it some time before you play it again.

Is it -really- this difficult?

It isn't difficult to avoid getting AIDS either (avoid high risk activities, use condoms, use clean needles) but people are still looking for a cure.  Why?  Because people don't want to kill AIDS (or heart disease, or cancer) by exercising personal responsiblity, we want to be able to do the stuff we want to do and then have a magic bullet available to fix any problems.  Ephedra, tapeworms and lead poisoning aren't good ways to lose weight and certainly don't lead to becoming "fit" but they are potentially easier than eating a well-balanced diet with plenty of vegetables, and getting fresh air and exercise.

Asking people to solve a problem by behaving responsibly isn't as effective as we might hope.  Code based nudges in the right direction can be helpful.


Angela Christine

[Armaddict]

Wow.

You compare playing a certain race/class to having sex, and the filled quota of that race/class to AIDS?

Jesus.  This really -is- crack.

[Halaster]

Simple solution:
Make karma spendable.
You play a 1 karma role, you spend a point of karma.
You play an 8 karma role, you spend eight points of karma.

Get rid of special applications all together.

Be more rewarding with karma.

Done.

No, this will not happen.  Karma is an indication of how much we trust a player.  If we trust them to play a mul, when trust them to play more than one.  Karma will not become spendable, at all.

As a matter of fact, we have absolutely no intention whatsoever to make any changes at all of any kind to the karma system as it is now.  As staff, we are completely totally satisfied with the way it is, right now, and have absolutely no intention whatosever of any kind of changing it.

[LoD]

No, this will not happen. Karma is an indication of how much we trust a player. If we trust them to play a mul, when trust them to play more than one. Karma will not become spendable, at all.

As a matter of fact, we have absolutely no intention whatsoever to make any changes at all of any kind to the karma system as it is now. As staff, we are completely totally satisfied with the way it is, right now, and have absolutely no intention whatosever of any kind of changing it.

Halaster, why do you always have to muddle up threads with vague replies that confuse us with rhetoric and big words!? (I kid!)

I agree.  I don't think karma should change either, but I would love to see players exercise more diversity in character choices.  I've talked to players who seem to have fallen in love with a particular type of role or character concept and can't seem to move on to something else.  Whether that particular class/guild is on Naoina's list, I cannot say, but I could wager a guess some of them are.

Mundane characters often allow for a more rapid and high profile integration into the world dynamic, that being the mix of characters interacting with one another.  The more the better.  There's a lot of great RP to be had that has nothing to do with spell weaving, mind bending, demons, elementals, fireballs, invisibility, sorcery, mystic runes and all of that stuff.

I've often heard people say that they've "played every possible role" or that "mundane roles are boring" and I am just astounded.  I've only played a handful of characters that I feel had enough time to develop into deep and realistic characters.  I'd love to see more people joining the ranks of the regular.

-LoD

[Armaddict]

Listen to LoD people.  He's SMRT!

[Halaster]

Yeah, I agree with LoD.  While I personally do enjoy playing a mage here and there, my two most favorite characters were a burglar and a ranger.

But having said that, if someone really enjoys playing a mage, then they should play a mage (if they can).  The game is about having fun.  You should first make sure you are having fun, then try and help others have fun.

[Agent_137 (2L2L)]

Simple solution:
Make karma spendable.
You play a 1 karma role, you spend a point of karma.
You play an 8 karma role, you spend eight points of karma.

Get rid of special applications all together.

Be more rewarding with karma.

Done.

That is how SOI does it (exactly). It's not a bad idea, but would provide too little benefit for the work it'd take to change over, in my opinon.