Grouping, Guarding and Battles

[Forty Winks]

I actually have two topics to this thread. One is with Guarding, and the other with grouping.

For guarding, how would it sound if the PCs that are following one PC are simply reduced to a generic "group" that is placed after the sdesc of the PC they are following. Kinda confusing at first, but here's an example.

If four PCs are following 'the black-haired captain', people not in the group but in the same room might see:
The black-haired captain stands here.
A small group led by the black-haired captain is here.

More people might make the sdesc 'a large group'.

What this would do is make the spam for any decent to large party quite alot less. The problem (besides the amount of work that might be needed to do such a thing) would be with those PCs that are apart of the group. Maybe the group could be similar to a wagon, where you could look inside the party and see the individual sdescs.

And, for purposes explained later, the group would mirror some actions that the leader does such as attacking or shooting.


And for guarding. This was mentioned in a previous thread awhile back but I think a failed guard attempt should initiate fighting with the aggressor for logical reasons.

The reason why I brought these two up is to firstly reduce movement spam with large groups and to perhaps improve how larger battles are done. Bare with me for this crude example.
With each group defending their respective leader, if PC 1 leads a group and attacks PC 2 with her own group defending her, all the people attacking PC 2 will have to go through her guards before reaching her spreading out the battle to multiple PCs rather than picking off players one at a time. It would also make battles more realistic.

Whew, hope you guys catch my point.

[Maybe42or54]

I like the idea of grouping. Perhaps, it could take clan coaks into consideration so when two from a clan join and are wearing the same kind of clan cloak then the sdesc would be.

A large group of Allanaki Militia And Tor Scorpions are here.

Or if it is a bunch of independants or something.

A large group of Allanaki Militia and mercenaries are here.


May take some more coding but would make it feel more fleshed out.

[X-D]

So, alright, the grouping idea sounds sorta cool, all for it, except, what about when somebody is not in the same room? How do they pick out the person they wanna shoot at? How do you know How many half-giants/muls etc are in the group from a distance? This is something a raider might like to know, and no reason why you would not be able to see these things.

As to the guarding...No, leave it the way it is, The last thing ANYBODY would want is that...Oops, walked the wrong direction, now, instead of that UBER Templar/warrior/monk/godking blocking me and telling me to get away, he and every other militia/guard in the game suddenly pounce and I see the mantis head befre the attack scroll stops...no thanks.


Oh, BTW, I'm back...HI all, missed ya.

[cyberpatrol_735]

Well.. this could be done, with modifications.. pretty big ones.


Say, 5 guys follow fancytemplar

You see

Fancytemplar is here, along with a small group

<prompt> l group

Looking at the group, you see:
Sdesc of person1
Sdesc of person2
Sdesc of person3

Then, I think it'd be feasable to 'look person' to check them out.

If not this, at least..

Fancypants has arrived from the south with a large group.

Instead of

Fancypants has arrived from the south
bob ' '
joe ''
billy ''
billy-bob ''
mark ''
you ''

[Angela Christine]

That would cut down on the movement spam which is good.  But it would also be a little harder to notice when someone in your group has fallen behind or wandered off, which is bad.


Angela Christine

[Forty Winks]

Oops, walked the wrong direction, now, instead of that UBER Templar/warrior/monk/godking blocking me and telling me to get away, he and every other militia/guard in the game suddenly pounce and I see the mantis head befre the attack scroll stops...no thanks.

Heh. Forgot about that aspect. If someone really wanted to make it possible though, maybe the mercy on or off would determine if you attack with a failed attempt or just sit back and watch.   :wink:

[jstorrie]

Seems like more trouble than it's worth.

[Forty Winks]

That would cut down on the movement spam which is good.  But it would also be a little harder to notice when someone in your group has fallen behind or wandered off, which is bad.


Angela Christine

True. Maybe there could be an echo announcing any new members or those leaving the grouping to the leader...but that would be more OOC than IC knowledge i guess. Well, nothing can be perfect... :wink:

What other problems might there be besides the time/effort needed and what AC mentioned?

The benefits would be less movement spam and easier management before battles. Any other benefits?

[Anonymous]

Years back I posted an idea that was something along these lines regarding one of the main problems in group fights, and that is the all NPCs on the same PC that either attacks or is attacked first.  Maybe this has been fixed, it's been years since I've been in any major group fights, but that's some pretty hairy stuff.

The group idea I had was to randomly or not so randomly distribute the incoming attacks of a large number of attackers, NPC or otherwise across the entire group after the first two.  So while Gith1 and Gith2 attack Hal (Gith1's target) Giths 3-7 end up in combat with other people in the group.  The idea is to cut down on the whole 'hey I'm being attacked by 7 NPCs which is physically impossible' thing as well as better create the sort of melee that ensues when two groups run into each other.

[Forty Winks]

I read up on that post, CRW. I agree, but the only problem is that it doesn't address encounters with PC vs. PC. A group of 10 PCs can all target one PC such as a templar codedly when realistically I doubt all that many could get through the ranks and files of soldiers around the templar. And, if the group thing is actually implemented, or something along the lines of it, you wouldn't really need to adjust anything with NPCs since if they all attack the leader PC, the group would jump in and defend, spreading out the battle anyways.

[Yokunama]

It sounds good, but I have a problem with the idea.

The whole retaliation against the opposite group seems a bit uninteresting to me. What if this "group" following the templar contained a PC that didn't have fighting abilites. That PC would easily end up in their grave. Really, do not like the idea of characters being instantly paired up with a character that can easily put them down.

If an instant pair is going to happen, perhaps people should be paired together depending on their fighting skill. This gives people a better chance of survival. They could be out of luck, if there is nothing but a bunch of Half-giant PCs in a group. If the group overpowers the PCs in numbers, the left over group members would be assigned to the strongest of the group.

I think there should be a limit to these groups and positions where players in that group can fill. This could keep people who are in the back from instantly being paired when the battle starts and protect them. If it the group is out-numbered by another group, then they'd automatically attack everyone in the group. Merchants and Archers could hide in the back, and there could be people in the positon with them to protect them from a flank. The bulky characters could be the front lines of the operation.

[Maybe42or54]

From my experience, the last one to enter the room is usually the first one attacked. Flanking and all, you know.

Then, of course the leader attacks the last npc to enter the area, which is almost always different then the one that is attacking your last person. Then the others assist and kill at will. Then die, or whatever.


I also suggest this, "Look east group."

And also a suggestion.

Instead of grouping the entire population when in a room, since groups can obviously be skrewed up and noone knows whos fighting who most of the time until its over and you think. "Holy shit, my leader died! And I never got touched! AWwwesome."

"look east"

Near
A large assembly of humans.
A halfling-sized halfgiant.
A fucking OMG RUN amount of gith.
A red haired half-elf.
A few ragged elves.
A shitload of raving manti.

Far
Nothing.

Very Far
Nothing still.


Similar to grouping of items.

Of course the titles would change like this.

A red haired human
to
A red haired human
A black haired human
to
A small gathering of men and women. (if men and women are in the group)
to
A mediocre gathering of men and woman.
to
A large gathering of men and woman.

Something along those lines.

We could just do "Tribes." Based off of cloaks. So the system could check for cloaks and whatnot.

Look west
You see:
a large group of red cloaked humanoids.
a small gathering of men and women.
A mediocre group of red and black cloaked humanoids.
(you wouldn't see desert camo cloaked people)
And so on and so on.

[Forty Winks]

Well, I actually didn't have such a complicated thing in mind, at least from my perspective. The only thing that might add any new difficulties with understanding in code (to new players more directly) would be the grouping thing.

Also, Yokunama, your problem actually doesn't exist since if someone didn't actually want to participate in a fight (like a physician) they wouldn't need to guard the leader. Simply follow. The people guarding would be paired up (or not depending on their guarding skill and mercy status) with any aggressors to their leader.

And, I think such a grouping as Maybe42or54 stated would work well if possible. Any groups with leaders would have priority over grouping, and then any individuals that are not grouped that are still in the room are grouped seperately.

I see one other problem though, and it deals with when battles occur. When one group attacks another group, would everyone return back to their own individual sdesc as they fight each other, or would these two groups simply become one large group, with everyone in the large group fighting each other? Whew, sounds pretty complicated. Any other ideas?