Small Automated Clans.

[HalflingWhore]

I disagree with it cutting down the numbers in the already active clans. You see, if I want to play a pc in a coded clan...I make a pc for it. If I don't want to, then I make a pc with the purpose of being more on my own. People are going to put their pcs wherever it's IC for them to be, having something like this is just another option for those that don't wish to be in the bigger coded clans.

They wouldn't be taking away from anything because those people wouldn't have been in the existing clan anyway.

[Yokunama]

I thought that things were supposed to be rougher for independents.

I don't think that life "suppose" to be hard for independents, but it naturally is. The life of an independent is hard if you have the slightest idea about how to go about such a task.

[Angela Christine]

I thought that things were supposed to be rougher for independents.

Don't forget the IC/OOC divide.  Jail is supposed to be unpleasant for criminals, but not for the players of criminals.  Life is supposed to be rough for independants, but not drudgery for the players of those independants.

Realistically most Zalanthans should spend 75% of their time working, and the other 25% sleeping . . . oh, and they should eat in there somewhere too.  But in practice most players don't want to spend the majority of their online time in simulated drudgery, so they want to be able to make a living in relatively little time so that they have time for conversations and plot without starving to death.  Whether they are in a clan or not, life is easier for PCs than for the great unwashed VNPC masses.


Angela Christine

[Kalden]

Well, yeah. The million dollar question is: what isn't rougher than playing in a clan?

[Sokotra]

I suppose my main desire was not to create a new functioning clan that provides PC-led direction to the players as much as to allow for some more realistic "job" environments that already exist.  I know much of this is possible for a PC to start/manage, that's not what I'm ultimately after seeing.  Somewhere that people who live a certain lifestyle can go when they're doing their IC work instead of crafting in taverns, using the same gear for their work as others might do for being a soldier, etc...

So, if you remove the "coded clan" and the "entry fee" and the other things people are reacting to strongly, and just create some of these IC entities that players could attach themselves to via RP, would that make a difference?  I'd started to write up an example long ago about a group of three brothers that ran a small-time wood resource business affiliated with House Kadius.

-LoD

 I think this idea would add alot to the game, and I think that is what LoD is going for with presenting it.  It would simply add more variation and depth to the PC's and the game itself as a whole.  It sort of reminds me of an idea I had a while back about allowing new characters that entered the game a wider variety of clothing/gear.  

 I just don't like the idea of having to flee to the market place immediately after you pop into the game with your new character... and then waltzing back to the tavern with your 'affordable' gear and try to pretend like you've been in the game for a lifetime while you wait to attract a certain clan leaders attention.  

 This idea would give PC's something to do while waiting to attract the attention of a larger guild and would give them a viable resume of sorts among other things.  Either that or the PC could simply have a more enjoyable time playing while building some sort of foundation for his character to grow upon and move on to bigger and better things.  It would give PC's of similar interests+playing times (especially for folks not within the playing times of the majority of the player base) a place to join together for further interaction... perhaps moving on to start their own clans.

 But... this would also be a place that would be beneficial for other PC's and clan members/leaders to visit as well to promote trade/interaction... and if a certain clan leader needed to recruit a certain type of player then it would be beneficial for the larger clans as well, perhaps allowing the player to remain connected to the smaller automated clan until full membership was attained or whatever... certain restrictions/rules etc. would be up to the clan leader to put out/reinforce.

Anyway, just a few thoughts... I think there are lots of ways to make this idea work and be beneficial to everyone.

[My 2 sids]

I love this idea.  I think it brings balance to the game.  As I've offered in many other posts most all other clans are basically all the same; this would provide a new approach for having a clanned character.

"No opening of new clans"
Personally, I think the Imms are sending some mixed signals. Further, the game now has Imms who specifically deal with Independents, there is a mass push for players to take on leadership roles, and a lot of changes have helped to strengthen independent play.  However, at the same time  I think it is obvious that the staff opens up very few actual leadership opportunity in clans.  Plus, even if intended to be otherwise, a lot of the player base feels the staff does not support any attempt to create groupings or clans.

"It would fracture the player base"
I'm not so sure this would be the case.  Often players find they enjoy certain types of roles.  Therefore, I don't think someone who loves playing a political character affiliated with a clan would leave and start making more independent characters.  Infact, wouldn't this be a way to bring some of the more independent types closer resulting in more interaction?

"Automation is just not the way to fix things/ PCs can already get together"
I think this is more of an OOC issue.  I always thought part of automation and OOC/Staff was to provide realism to the game.  Realistically, a few hours in an abandoned building or what have you and a group could indeed construct their own shelter and come up with their own grouping.  Realistically, there would be tons of small notches in the world for grunts to squeak out a life for themselves.  I say by providing more PC-run clans/ auto clans we'd be developing a more realistic world.

[Praetorian]

Many of the clans in the game struggle to maintain a full membership as it is, due mostly to the fact that we have more organizations than players to keep each one full, which is fine.

Personally, I think one of the largest reasons PC's don't immerse themselves in clans more frequently is because the majority of them last I checked required life oaths (or like, 10 years which happens to be 9 years longer than most pcs live...).  Players tend to envision various pathways for their future and want options 'out' so to speak.  I've never understood the policy myself - my labor would be just as valued as the next guy.
I think an imm should do a little experiment and have their clan offer both life-service for full pay as well as limited-service for reduced pay.  I'd be willing to bet sid most pcs would take the limited service term angle and that clan's membership would boom

[Jherlen]

Many of the clans in the game struggle to maintain a full membership as it is, due mostly to the fact that we have more organizations than players to keep each one full, which is fine.

Personally, I think one of the largest reasons PC's don't immerse themselves in clans more frequently is because the majority of them last I checked required life oaths (or like, 10 years which happens to be 9 years longer than most pcs live...).  Players tend to envision various pathways for their future and want options 'out' so to speak.  I've never understood the policy myself - my labor would be just as valued as the next guy.
I think an imm should do a little experiment and have their clan offer both life-service for full pay as well as limited-service for reduced pay.  I'd be willing to bet sid most pcs would take the limited service term angle and that clan's membership would boom

Some clans already do this. I'm not sure if it would make a difference if all of them did (or if that's even IC.) It may just give people who want to put a year of time into a clan so they can get buff more options.

5-10 years doesn't seem like an unreasonable time period for a major House to ask someone to serve for, ICly. I do wish that OOCly that time would pass faster, but that's a topic for another thread...

[HunterKiller]

I don't know if this relates to what you're trying to propose but it does remind me of issues I had back in the day while helping run a "clan".  One major problem I noticed was that there was no real motivation to help the clan in any way - we were never low on wood, low on bone, materials in general, which led to a lot of us either sitting around or going off and doing something stupid.  We had organized outtings once in a while but they seemed a bit pointless and an excuse to do something stupid since we didn't -really- need the stuff for our clan to continue.  I'd thought up the idea that some sort of tally would be kept.  When a member of the clan brought wood in, that tally would go up.  If the tally reached a certain point you could do something with the wood, reach a goal of some kind.  The tally system could be automated but the goal would be imm or PC controlled.  Like if enough wood were gathered a cart (small wagon) could be built (a new object created as a result of the effort).  I know wagons are a bit of can of worms in Arm but that's just an example, particularly an example of something the player would be willing to work for.  I'm not proposing we give everyone wagons either I'm just using that to illustrate the point.  Maybe instead of a wagon they're a batch of new sparring weapons or just something the clan needs (maybe periodically the sparring weapons will either break or go away, or maybe "real" ones would be kept and when they disappeared or got broken you'd need to gather wood for your crafters to build more).

I guess what I'm saying is that instead of automated clans maybe we could give the existing clans very tangible things for its members to do, very concrete ways for its people to make a difference.

Just an idea.

- HK

[Adhira]

Personally, I think one of the largest reasons PC's don't immerse themselves in clans more frequently is because the majority of them last I checked required life oaths

I think this may be a bit of a misconception, and something for people to check out in game. Of the four clans I staff for only one has a 'life membership only' policy, and that's the Tan Muark which is special app only. The other three all have in place different levels and duration of membership.

[LoD]

Some people have gotten to the meat of my proposal: an enhanced RP environment for independant players.

Not everyone wants to join one of the full-fledged clans.  They want to do something a little more low key and not feel as if they're letting someone down if they don't show up for awhile, or can't play as much as they want.  There would realistically be lots of small businesses and shops that could take on more help for a win/win situation such as: You gather raw materials, sell them to me, and I give you a place to sleep and keep out of trouble.

Someone had objected to these clans having "uber compounds" or special perks that would make them more attractive than other clans.  I figured that these small clans could allow the occasional player to be a part of something in the game without having to swear 10 years to a House, or not be allowed to walk outside the City when they want.  Here's a quick example:

>s

Dusty Shop [NW]

   Tighly packed earth forms the floor of this modest shop.  Crawling
along the brownish walls are aged cracks, filled with sand and dirt from
the occasional sandstorm.  Heavy chitin shells, carved into makeshift
obsidian pull carts lay stacked against the southern wall.  Dominating
the eastern wall of the shop are a series of massive bone crates, filled
with rough obsidian.  Blocking the crates from common access is a weighty stone slab, serving as a selling table.
   A wide hole in the western wall serves as a doorway to the adjoining
chamber, where the occasional miner can be seen at rest.
The haggard, hawk nosed merchant is here, standing behind a table.
The burly, broad-shouldered man stands here, leaning against the wall.

>w
The burly, broad-shouldered man shakes his head and puts a hand out.
The burly, broad-shouldered man says, in sirihish:
   "Talk ta Radjak if ya wants ta join da Black Rock Outfit, eh?"

>talk burly radjak
The burly, broad-shouldered man thumbs toward the haggard, hawk nosed man.
The burly, broad-shouldered man says, in sirihish:
   "Dat's Radjak over there.  This is his outfit.  Talk to 'em ta join up."

>talk radjak topics
The haggard, hawk nosed merchant turns to you, beady eyes squinting.
The haggard, hawk nosed merchant says, in sirihish:
  "Well, fren, ya wants ta know my name, business or ta join?"

>talk radjak join
The haggard, hawk nosed merchant narrows his gaze in a quick appraisal.
The haggard, hawk nosed merchant says, in sirihish:
   "Ya don't look like much t'me, but we always need some new hands.  Ya want a place ta sleep, cost ya 500 'sid ta join up. OOC: Join Radjak

>join radjak
The haggard, hawk nosed merchant snatches some coin from you.
The haggard, hawk nosed merchant says, in sirihish:
   "Alright, figure we'll give ya a try.  Barna - let dis fella on through."

>w
The burly, broad-shouldered man gives you a lazy nod.

Cramped Barracks [E]
   
   Smelling of dust and sweat, this broad chamber has been packed with
rickety bunks and dirty sleeping pallets.  Glass hackers, sacks and other mining tools can be seen hung upon bone hooks set in the walls.  Pushed against the northern wall is a square table ringed with a few old chairs.  Hidden behind one of the bunks is a shuttered window carved into the
earthen wall, a few missing slats offering slight relief to the thick air.
   A wide hole in the eastern wall leads into a modest shop.
The willowy, heavily scarred man is here, resting on a pallet.

>sc

You are Jojo, Miner of the Black Rock Outfit.

My idea would further have Radjak purchase obsidian and perhaps other stones only from those who joined up.  He would also have gear for sale that encouraged the mining lifestyle.  Items that people could use so tha they felt more "in the role" such as tools, specific clothing, etc...

This is just a quick example of one such place that could exist in the Known World that players could join if they wanted to be part of without any huge commitment or huge reward.

-LoD

[jcarter]

I think this is a great idea and would really love to see something like this implemented into the game.

[RunningMountain]

One of the better idea's I've seen so far on the GDB this year.

-RM

[Sokotra]

"... They want to do something a little more low key and not feel as if they're letting someone down if they don't show up for awhile, or can't play as much as they want."

  I think that pretty much explains my reason for liking this idea.  I've rarely got lots of time to play, and when I do it might be a while before I am able to play again.  When this happens to former Armaddicts, it tends to make the times that you are able to play seem like you have to do something outrageous in order to find some action or get involved... which is fine once in a while, but it isn't always easy to find perfectly sane reasons for such...   :?  

  Having these automated clans for independents and us losers that can't find time to actually get involved in stuff in the game would probably help make the game more enjoyable for us.  I especially liked the idea of the automated mercenary/raider clan and other less mundane professions.  I play to have fun, not type out how to carve a plate out of stone or sew up my underwear.  (though I guess for some people that might be considered fun *freaks*)   :lol:

  Other than that main reason, I still feel like there needs to be more variety to the game... even though it looks like everyone has done an awesome job in writing up new item descriptions and clothing and all that sorta stuff.   I think this idea would help to accomplish adding some texture and variety to the game etc... as well as adding a wider range of starting eq for newbs and that sort of thing.

[Hot_Dancer]

Bold Idea, LoD.

I like it.

Hot_Dancer