Bribes

[Spud]

Everyone has said that most Templar will look the other way if offered a bribe, or something of the sort. In reality, why would a Templar care about a bribe when they can just take whatever they want from you? I know if I played a Templar, I probably wouldn't care about something a dirty commoner offered me, when I could have whatever I wanted, if I chose so.

As for slavery, why would a bribe stop someone when they could take everything from the person and still keep them as a slave. Slave+slave's possesions seems better than just a bribe.

[Dracul]

Because if you give them a bribe, you can give them a bribe again...

It's less work to take a bribe...

If you have -any- standing, it could be bad for the templar to kill you...




Is this a serious question? Or is this more a prompt for argument?
Try giving a templar a bribe sometime. Make it big enough though.

[Nyard]

Yeah, it's easier to take a bribe.  First of all, it's less work.  Second of all, you're not hurting the person or anything, so you're giving them a chance to make more money and bribe you again later on.  Plus, just think of it like it is in real life.  People bribe cops, but the cop could easily just take the person into a dark alley, beat him senseless and take his money, or take his money in a more discreet way....  But they still take bribes, don't they?

[Qetesh]

Think of it like a bad cop. He could arrest you and fill out all that paperwork, or just take the money in his pocket and let you go. You win, you go free, he wins, he gets some extra cash and nobody gets hurt.

A templar could punish you for doing something bad, but then he would have to go the hassle of dragging you to jail, beating you up missing his noon time tea. Why bother, he can just take some coins/stuff from you and be on his way.

[jmordetsky]

Templar's love bribes.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

It's not so much the size of the individual bribe, but the number of bribes the Templar gets in a day.

[HardCarbon]

Because if you give them a bribe, you can give them a bribe again...

It's less work to take a bribe...

If you have -any- standing, it could be bad for the templar to kill you...




Is this a serious question? Or is this more a prompt for argument?
Try giving a templar a bribe sometime. Make it big enough though.

There is a point.. I've seen Templars turn down 2 large + bribes and then several games years later the city suffers.. (yea!!)

[Gaare]

Bribe does not only mean getting pieces of black rock. It also means connection and good relation which helps earning power. Even for a templar having a bunch of citizens who bribes periodicly is important, because they are people with skills who trust Templar to keep their position safe. In other words, there is a kind of mutually benefical relationship between those citizens and templar.

IMHO in Zalathans, unlike bad cop example, most of the bribes should be just for keeping Templar/militia happy in case of emergency when one may need them. Those coins are not always given for expecting work in return or get out of jail, stopping torturing etc.. Bribe is more like insurance.

Think an example for a mere hunter bribing 300 coins in two RL weeks to a templar. That hunter will be always winning side in simply cases like accusing an elf of being a thief, pointing a magicker of being raider, etc.. Also if templar needs a scout then probably he will call the hunter for the task (and hopefully will give some coins as a reward or gifts like the hunter's rival's hand). Templar will be happy of having a hunter under his control who gives bribe and doing some jobs for him, and Hunter will be happy knowing he is protected by laws to some degree.

Same for nobles or house merchants, think of a situation where a citizen insulted noble in public and walked away. If that noble's rival noble was bribing templar occasionaly more then the insulted one, then Templar who is just few hundred meters away drinking his wine, could simply say he is too busy at that moment.

[Cenghiz]

Same for nobles or house merchants, think of a situation where a citizen insulted noble in public and walked away. If that noble's rival noble was bribing templar occasionaly more then the insulted one, then Templar who is just few hundred meters away drinking his wine, could simply say he is too busy at that moment.

Err.. I don't think this is possible in Allanak. I know little about noble/templar/commoner relations in north, maybe possible in Tuluk.

[Adhira]

Cenghiz wrote:

Err.. I don't think this is possible in Allanak. I know little about noble/templar/commoner relations in north, maybe possible in Tuluk.

All things are possible.  :wink:

[Gaare]

Just want to bump this thread up. I had chance to speak with a lot of PCs here and there recently. I did not see anybody who really care of bribe.. Peh.. (maybe that's the right way really.. I do not know.. I simply find it un-realistic).

I think generally players look at bribe as some kind of trade. Like someone is offering something, and other is paying for what is offered. You get caught, so you should pay. Templar is angry and may kill you, so you pay.

- Something, such as money or a favor, offered or given to a person in a position of trust to influence that person's views or conduct.

-Something serving to influence or persuade.

Bribe is about influnce one's view. Person A makes a favour or pays some coins to person B to change the attitudes and influence on it a bit.

IMHO, this means.. If you are playing a soldier and while your PC is walking if someone hands you coins.. That's something. That incident tells a lot. That does not mean that person did something and want to make you forget it.. That's just a favour waiting for to be paid someday. You may pay, or you may not.

Or.. if you are running a merchant and someone hands you extra bones, or rocks. That does not mean that person is stupid. Just making a favour and expect you to behave accordingly in the future.

The examples can be in high levels. If a noble is bribing one thousand to a templar monthly, that does not mean.. that noble immediately wants something. It means -if- need arrises, noble expects templar to repay one way or other.

Surely, PCs do not have to behave like that.. but it is my opinion (as a player and which can be very wrong) that many Zalantians see bribe like that. I do not think it is very common in Zalanthas;

- Soldiers come and ask coins from exactly same person every time they see him, because he gave some coins before hand and others did not.

- Militia men and women got suspicious because a certain person paid a few coins.. thinking that person did something wrong.

- Templars ignorant to bribes, even after getting coins before, no attitute change to certain people.

Surely those all can be.. I mean, someone easily play like above.. but what I mean is, I do not think they are common in Zalanthas.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Everyone has said that most Templar will look the other way if offered a bribe, or something of the sort. In reality, why would a Templar care about a bribe when they can just take whatever they want from you? I know if I played a Templar, I probably wouldn't care about something a dirty commoner offered me, when I could have whatever I wanted, if I chose so.

I know this is an old topic but I'd like to respond to it.

If a templar is offered a bribe by a citizen, and rather than accepting it she simply strips the citizen naked and leaves her on the streets to beg, borrow, or steal, and word spreads of this, then that templar will quickly gain a reputation as an insane, hard-cased zealot with little or no understanding of the rules of polite society.  This is not a reputation that a templar will generally seek to cultivate.  The primary reason for this is because if a templar has this reputation, she will never be offered a bribe again, the seedier elements of the city (and possibly the merchant and noble elements as well) will bypass her and instead seek favors and leniency from her rival coworkers.  These rivals will then prosper while the templar suffers.

You might be thinking at this point "Then why doesn't a templar just mug a commoner and leave them naked everytime she's hard up for cash?"  Most commoners have very little money, and aren't worth the time to a templar who at times will require thousands of sid to conduct her operations.  Of the ones that have more money than this, some have them have that money for good reasons.  If a templar robs and humiliates too many commoners of any importance (or even one if they're important enough) then that templar will quickly find that she has been "reassigned."

Reassigned means shuffled off to some backwater where it's difficult to survive and impossible to advance one's career.

Another reason is that if a templar strips somebody naked, in a harsh world like Zalanthas they are effectively leaving them to die.  A templar should never kill anyone unless they mean to kill someone.  A smart templar will never kill anyone that they might still have use for.  Just about anyone might be worth keeping alive.  If a commoner gives you fifty sid today, then maybe you'll get another fifty sid when you run into him again in two weeks.  Eventually, it all adds up.

[Anonymous]

People are trying to overexplain this.

Templars can shake down commoners when they feel like it. I remember a Lirathuan templar, Ranna, that had the habit of demanding 50 coins everytime she ran into a PC. My character had to sweat trying to kill enough belgoi to sell their bells and have the fee the next time she came around. Eventually she stopped, probably because she had accumulated the money she needed.

Generally templars don't bother because making the average commoner turn out his pockets would only yield a few coins and they're already set with what they need. PCs are a special breed that way.

There's nothing to prevent a templar from just taking the bribe and killing you anyway, so far as I can see, other than he's probably likely to feel pretty good about being 500 coins richer and as a result less likely to be annoyed or angry enough to behead you.

It's only the psychotic killer types without self control that would get reined in. If they start butchering commoners wholesale for the fun of it, soon Muk or Tek wouldn't have a population left to lord it over. I suspect at that point, a red robe would step in and execute the blue robe.

[Hexxaex]

There is no IC way to abuse your power as a Templar and call it abuse.  Templars are corrupt, mean, and all just assholes.  If they want you to give them a blowjob and have you pay 500 coins for the privelage of doing so, they sure as hell can do that.  Why?  Because they are better than your commoner character.  Your character is dirt, and the Templar can step all over you if they want to.

In today's society, if police were corrupt like that, they'd have to deal with the governments and their superiors.  Most Templars in Zalanthas have superiors that are even more corrupt than them, and really, the Templars are the government.

Monetary and material bribes like coins or exotic items are fine, and accepting those should not be a problem.  The Templars have the power to do what they want to a commoner, but like ERS said, they could gain a bad reputation for, say, declining a bribe and stripping the character for their armor instead.  The only bounds they have ICly is the reputation deal, but OOCly, they are bound by the other players, because stripping down a player who has used his character for weeks to get a set of shining armor just to have it taken from him by a Templar is not fun for the player at all.

I know if I played a Templar, I probably wouldn't care about something a dirty commoner offered me, when I could have whatever I wanted, if I chose so.

That attitude is fine if you're playing a Templar, but if you think that you're crossing the line from IC punishment to OOC punishment, don't do it.  Accept bribes if they're offered, because that way, you know the player is willing to give up whatever they're bribing you with.  If you have to, only make it a bad experience for the character, not the player.

[EvilRoeSlade]

People are trying to overexplain this.

I'm not over-explaining anything.  Did you ever wonder if there was a reason why that templar took fifty coins instead of all of your coins?

[Anonymous Donor]

Sometime bribes work, sometime they don't. Some Templars take your money and kill you, while others let you off the hook for free.

Once upon the time I have played petty criminal known for connections with absolutely horrible criminals. He has been arrested/searched/imprisoned by PCs about dozen times. He used bribes from time to time and survived after being tortured by four different Templars of both city-states.

The very next character was pretty lawful. He had much more to offer than previous one and he used bribes all the time. This one was imprisoned only once, yet was never able to buy his life back.

Do I think that Templars unaffected by my bribes play unrealistic? Not at all.
Bribes are like stakes in roulette. I place my bet and hope to win. But it could happen so that I have offered too little, or my counterpart has offered too much, or Templar is having bad day, or somewhere in their background it's clearly states why my bribes will be wasted for nothing, or my existence is simply unacceptable for many other reasons. See? I have no problem with making up the reason to feel better over the "stupid and uncharacteristic" death of my character.

Do I adore Templars who acknowledge my bribe and act accordingly? Yes, absolutely.
Just the same way I'd like any regular character to acknowledge and accept my offer for interaction. They don't have to, but I'd like them to.

[Folker]

To be honest, in all my gameplay, I've given only one bribe. And I enjoyed giving it thoroughly. I'm fairly certain that a good 80% of my future bribes will too be for the sake of increasing the atmosphere of corruption in the society he's in. And 20% other ones will be to get what I want, or avoid what I really really dont want.

[Cale_Knight]

More people should give bribes and more people should be susceptible to bribes.

[bloodfromstone]

I think the lack of susceptability (in my experience) can be a problem. I've never given a successful bribe in my Arming career, but not for lack of trying. Hand someone 300 coins? Get that pocket change out of my face. A large? Don't try to buy me. Two? Don't insult me. I make more money in a day than you'll ever see in your life, commoner.

Makes it hard to want to offer bribes.

[Moofassa]

I bribe people.

4/5 times they don't realise they're being bribe until you get extremely obvious and almost ridiculously theatrical about it.
3/5 times they pretend they're too honorable... pfft right...
1/5 times they get it right away and fucking great.
0/5 times do they ever dance for you.

[Me]

I think the lack of susceptability (in my experience) can be a problem. I've never given a successful bribe in my Arming career, but not for lack of trying. Hand someone 300 coins? Get that pocket change out of my face. A large? Don't try to buy me. Two? Don't insult me. I make more money in a day than you'll ever see in your life, commoner.

Makes it hard to want to offer bribes.

Not sure about that. There are alot of creative ways in bribing a person. Afraid you might not get enough money? No problem! A valuable piece of information would do. How about about a fantastic blowjob?

There's also wine, food and clothings...if that doesn't work, how about over the top flattery?

[spawnloser]

I've never had to bribe a Templar.  Granted, I did try a couple times when playing in the North...and they pulled the too honorable routine, but that could have just been for my character, whom they liked.

In the south, though, yeah, never needed to.  Don't do anything truly stupid to begin with and then treat the templar with a proper amount of fear and awe?  Yep, they like that ego boost...it makes them tingly in the pants or something.

[jstorrie]

Bribes are also encouraged by city culture. Templars are far, far above most citizens, and showing tribute and respect - even if fifty or a hundred 'sid is nothing special to Joe Black Robe - is a way of demonstrating that you know your place and are a good and dutiful citizen. Keep in mind that you can grease the wheels before you get in trouble; many Zalanthans would make it a point to set a small amount of coin aside to give to templars they run into often, just so they're in their good books.

[Yokunama]

:twisted: Taking a bribe or torturing someone in some public fashion is a lot easier and quicker than dragging people down the streets and tossing them into the jail. :twisted:

[Gaare]

Almost all above things sound me.. well.. I guess too western cultural examples and thinking.

I think bribe is not only given in criminal situations, and especially after get caught. Yes, that's a type of bribe, but IMHO there are other types. I must add, I think favours and bribes are extremely important in Zalanthas. Because;

- People does not trust each other easily.
- There is limited resources (wealth is extremely low).
- People live in large communities. Like probably three commoner families are living together in a tiny hut.
- Well, the goverment system in based on words and decisions of a handful of extremely powerful figures.
- Life is cheap. One(even templars) needs other to stay alive.


!Disclaimer! Some (unneccesary) eastern culture life examples.

- Today, at job(I work at a small computer company of about 12 people around), a customer came to sales department  telling he is friend of owner of a small kiosk nearby. Kiosk man is great.. He sells "boyoz" (some kind of sandwich) in the mornings, and he brings new cooked ones to company which he does not have to.  As customer told he is friend of the owner of Kiosk, he got around %10 discount on the computer.

- A friend of mine living at neighbourhood goes to police station closeby once or twice every month with desserts as gifts, because he likes using his motorcycle at extreme velocity at nearby long street at late nights. If he would get caught and tries to give 200$ for getting out of the situation.. His chance of success is less then %50.. and worse he may spend at least one night in jail and may find himself in court.

- If someone wants to buy a kilim (some kind of extremely beatiful type of carpet) and s/he would not know how to deal with suitation i.e. foreigners, have to pay even thousands of dollars for it (I remember someone at GDB refered kilim merchants as thieves before). If I would want to buy a kilim, I would ask my friends if there is anyone who knows owner of a kilim shop. Then, I drink and pay a beer or two for my friend and if neccesary my friend's friend who knows the owner of kilim shop. Then, when I go to kilim shop, much probably I would get at least %40 discount.

I can not explain myself well in English. Trying to explain there are many other types of bribes then paying after get caught, I had to write down a looong post. If you read all the post sorry for the word mess. Cheers.

Edited to Add:

BRIBE. BRIBE. BRIBE. I cannot stress this enough. BLACK STONES MAKE THE WORLD GO ROUND. There is little you cannot do and accomplish with the right amount of money. Make friends, influence people and templars, buy off the 'bad guys', finance your friendly neighborhood nilazi. -USE- your resources.