Playing a noble

[Incognito]

I see that a good number of folks have voted on the poll in the "Other" category - myself included.

My reason for choosing the "Other" category was:
1) None of the other options fitted.
2) I did apply for a couple of noble roles but wasnt the one selected for it.

I am posting this just coz I think there might be a few others who voted in the "Other" category, in the same silt-skimmer as me! In case Vanth is wondering why so many folks are voting in that particular category ;)

[Barzalene]

I loved my noble. She was interesting. I don't know if anyone else enjoyed her, but I enjoyed playing her. I think the reason that I had success was because I didn't see her as filling a noble role, but rather I saw her as a personality who happened to be in a noble role. As for the structure, I liked that. I like the challenge of making things happen within a set perameter. I'd reccommend it.

[Boggis]

I've played one noble and in general I found it enjoyable. Upsides for me were definitely the IC power you have, the full money bags to make things happen around you, the various plots that generally just fall in your lap and a quick Imm response time to questions. Downsides were that as a noble you have to be prepared to let other people do virtually everything for you. If you're a hands-on kind of person it can be very hard to just sit back and let other people have at it. Also, you have to be prepared to be patient as things don't happen overnight. For me what did it in the end was the desire to just go and do what I wanted when I wanted and I decided to retire. I don't regret the role at all - it was an enjoyable experience and I would probably consider playing one again but not for a while as it can be a demanding role trying to keep a number of hires all busy and interested. I'd recommend anybody who wants to play a templar to give a noble a go first.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Leadership positions make me cringe. I hate feeling like I HAVE TO LOG ON, or else I'm a BAD LEADER who is RUINING OTHER PLAYERS ENJOYMENT and will likely see a dozen HOW TO ROLEPLAY A LEADER posts on the GDB due to my ineptitude.
Whether I'm a Byn Sergeant or a noble, I'd rather lead a pack of rabid halflings than other players. I don't want Arm to feel like a responsibility. I have enough of that in real life.

[Dracul]

OTHER: I suppose you would I'm working up to a noble.

I emailed a while back, in between announcemnets, and asked if there were any open noble roles. I was told I needed some more politcial experience and should play an aide to a merchant or noble because of lack of politikal RP.    Went ahead and did that, although from what I already knew (between the rinth, commoners, and the militia) I didn't learn much.

I've experimented with leadership roles...heh...and the worst kind. Being the guy who doesn't really have any authority...but still tries to organize groups in dangerous places. Think redstorm. Nobody stays...and then I die myself eventually .

I'm currently eyeing up something that'll give me the perfect experience, but I think I'd play a great noble, and just haven't yet. I also yearn for some leadership positions.

[SpyGuy]

I got the chance to play one and it was ok while I was doing it.  But looking back on the role I really hated it compared to some of my other experiences on Arm and so ended up retiring after a forced break (yay hurricane!) and then taking a long break from Arm.  There are some people that can play a noble beautifully and though I hope I did decently in the role it also bored me to death.  I strongly doubt I'll ever play one again and I'm fine with that, there are alot of awesome roles in the game to keep me interested.

The problem I had with being a noble was that I felt I was more beholden to my underlings than they were to me.  I -needed- there help to get anything done, they had 10 other offers on their plate.  And since at the time both the military arm of my clan and the servant arm, despite both players' and staff's best efforts, were dead.  Both branches were beginning to be set up again and then suffered set backs of character deaths/retirements/etc.  So there were too many nobles in the clan without anyone to direct.  And so all my attentions turned inward and it ended up being in house bickering and the like and I got fed up with it.  It was like RPing through neighborhood politics and in a game, with a leadership role that I felt responsible to play.  Until I retired, and I felt guilty about that too so it was really a no win situation for me.

I suppose my biggest gripe is that I like to take a hands on role, even in RL I hate giving someone an order if I can't in some way help them do it myself.  And in a noble role, or more particularly my concept and House, just didn't allow that style of play.  Not for me but to each his own, I loved all the characters I had to interact with but didn't necessarily like all the interactions I had with those characters.

[Bestatte]

I tried for a templar role once. The IMM at the time said he'd set me up when my existing character died. Then he quit IMMing. Then my character died. So I apped again, the same role, when another IMM was advertising for one. Part of the rejection note was "frankly, you are displeasing to me."

I decided at that point I wasn't going to bother apping for any kind of special role, and didn't, for a very long time.

Then, months later, I was told I should try apping for less responsible positions. Got rejected thrice in a row on three different apps, in response to advertisements from the staff. Partly because they felt my existing character was too "known" to retire, partly because of some bad notes on my account.

I've come to the conclusion that I'm not cut out for answering any requests for special roles, however I'll still send the occasional word out to this or that IMM if I feel like giving an -un-advertised role a shot.

[Vox]

The Noble role is a very good one when there is an active Political playerbase involved.  Yes the individual can create their own plots and take the reins as a leader but that's ultimately making things interesting for other people. Which is of course part of the job, but you also have to balance out what makes it fun for YOU or like many nobles, you just burn out and stop logging in.

As has already been highlighted the world has one city too many. The addition of Tuluki Nobles after Tuluk was rebuilt was one of the worst the game has seen. Harsh language, but I use it only because of the gutt-wrenching effect the whole concept has on me.

What did creating a Noble line in Tuluk do for the world? Well, first and foremost it cut those playing in the already well-established Noble Houses in Allanak in half. Tearing away a good portion of the indepth political RP that Allanak was always known for.
Secondly it cut away those who wanted to play Noble guards and advisors and so forth in half.
And finally it makes Tuluk look as though they are trying to Mirror-Image Allanak, which should be the farthest thing in the world from what Tuluk should be doing.

In this player's humble opinion, Tuluk should represent a city inspired by a Barbarian... Like if Conan had a city, Muk Utep is a bad mutha but he's no Senator Palpatine...

Tektolnes and family? Definitely Palpatine material, Allanak even has a Senate and a fascinating political structure. There's no way Tuluk even touches Allanak's political might.

That's why I always wanted Tuluk to focus on its Templarate as the walking emblem of their Barbarian, Sorcerer-King... Who has the patience to humor Nobility in Tuluk? That whole class should be wiped away and a Caste system should be in place... Like Artists and Crafters and so forth and Merchants should be positions of honor having to do with what they actually contribute to the society.  And the Templarate would be in charge of raising up those who contributed the most, giving them accolades. Slaving and defense of the city should all be done by the Templarate in Tuluk, either farming out the Slaving to small mercenary groups or leading groups of Militiia into the wastes.

So what happens if you have Utep disolve the Nobility in Tuluk? Well, you get those interested in playing a Noble in an intense political atmosphere finally coming back to Allanak and contributing in ways that makes everyone's enjoyment that much greater.  You get House Oash with more than ONE noble at any given time... Letting them once again be the plotting and scheming House they should be. Tor has their gruff Warlords and Borsail their pansy Slaver-Lords.  It's a win-win all around.

In fact it helps make the line seperating north and south that much brighter when you know you can escape the world of Political scheming and backstabbing up in Tuluk... Where they're concerned with things like Poetry and Bardic feats, Art and lumberjacking... Where a simple commoner can go be that simple commoner without being under the oppressive boot-heel of a Noble.

Then Tuluk's Templarate could have their Advisors and soldiers and so forth be the focal point... Staying true to the essence of their Barbarian Sorcerer-King... and Allanak can have their serpentine politics, staying true to the essence of their scheming Sorcerer-King.

If that happened, I'd jump in line to play a Noble because there'd be far more involved and far more Nobles to interact with...The last Noble I played hung around with the ONE representative from the other two Houses and let me tell you how boring those Kruth games were... The Oashi was always cheating, the Tor was always threatening the Oashi and the Borsail was always drunk.

Then maybe Allanak's political life would blossom in a direction that made PC SENATORs who could actually hold SENATE meetings and so forth. Bringing in runners to deliver the decree's to the taverns. The Tavern's would always be abuzz with what someone overheard and the scheming would be epic.

Anyway, that's my long-winded opinion.

[Dracul]

...
In this player's humble opinion, Tuluk should represent a city inspired by a Barbarian... Like if Conan had a city, Muk Utep is a bad mutha but he's no Senator Palpatine...

Tektolnes and family? Definitely Palpatine material, Allanak even has a Senate and a fascinating political structure. There's no way Tuluk even touches Allanak's political might.

That's why I always wanted Tuluk to focus on its Templarate as the walking emblem of their Barbarian, Sorcerer-King... Who has the patience to humor Nobility in Tuluk? That whole class should be wiped away and a Caste system should be in place... Like Artists and Crafters and so forth and Merchants should be positions of honor having to do with what they actually contribute to the society.  And the Templarate would be in charge of raising up those who contributed the most, giving them accolades. Slaving and defense of the city should all be done by the Templarate in Tuluk, either farming out the Slaving to small mercenary groups or leading groups of Militiia into the wastes.
...

Then Tuluk's Templarate could have their Advisors and soldiers and so forth be the focal point... Staying true to the essence of their Barbarian Sorcerer-King... and Allanak can have their serpentine politics, staying true to the essence of their scheming Sorcerer-King.
...

DAMN...I really like that idea. And then on top of it, you have the ooc arguments (which I cut out of the quote) for boosting the nakki nobility. Wow, I would love to see that. Im mainly a southerner pc, so I'm biased anyways.

So...what if we killed all the northerner nobles? Hmm...if we killed them all...maybe....what do you say IMMZ?

[Nyard]

I would love to play a noble role, but there are a few reasons why I couldn't.  First of all, I'm still pretty new to the game.  Second of all, I don't think the staff would want me for a few reasons.  They haven't really had a chance to see what type of player I am.  Also, I was kind of stupid with my first two characters.  Also, I don't have as much available playing time as most other people may have.  

This will be especially true once school starts up again.  I don't have much time because, well, I'm a teenager, so I don't have my own house, so I can't just play whenever I want and be left alone.  My brother and I have to take turns (argh, I hate it!), so any time after I've been on for 30 minutes, my brother can say he wants on, and then I have to wait at least another 30 minutes to get back on..  But right now, I pretty much just play ARM, that's all I do, whenever I can, so I dunno.  Before I really consider it, though, I suppose I should get a bit more experience with this game.

[sacac]

Winrothal may have a problem with that idea.

I love the idea though Vox and makes sense.

[Anonymous]

I agree with Vox and have said the exact same thing many times.  The addition of Tuluki nobility diminished the pool of active nobles in Allanak at the price of an equally mediocre pool of nobles in Tuluk.

I really long for the days when there were tons of active nobles and 4 houses and a lot of interplay between them on all levels.

Honestly it doesn't have to be Allanak that gets the nobility, it could also be Tuluk, but shutting down the noble houses in one city or the other would be a joyous occasion, I think.

[Vanth]

For those of you who feel like you don't have enough experience or aren't ready yet, here's some suggestions to prepare yourself for a noble role:

--Understand the politics of the city you want to be a noble in.  You can do this by playing an aide or other underling for a period of time.
--Get some experience in "lesser" leader roles, like Byn Sergeant, Guard Officer, Senior Aide, of merchant house family member.
--Stick with these roles.  Keep your account notes good, or if you have bad ones, show that you've improved.

Overall, I'm really enjoying the feedback here, keep it coming.

[amoeba]

It's an interesting question, and interesting responses. I marked down "not my type of role", but I should probably qualify that.  

My response is based on what I have seen outwardly of the role, and guessed at in terms of it's inner workings.  With me it's not a problem of if I have the time or can I keep other people involved, but rather is it a role that would drive me to distraction.  My time is very consistant and predictable, and I rather enjoy enjoy keeping people busy, the more the better.  My few experiences with guarding proved to be less than enjoyable for me, and that's as close as I have gotten to observing the noble lifestyle.  If fact I would rather get my teeth drilled than repeat them.  

John stated some of my concern well in a post about boredom, he stated that when he was in a reactive state he was bored, it wasn't until he got  proactive that he enjoyed the role.  Getting stuck in a situation where you are exclusivly dependent upon underlings to do the actual work, while you direct the scenes may seem on the surface to be interesting, but it is the day to day execution of this that concerns me. How much of this is just waiting for something to happen?

In addition, when I play this game I live for the act of discovery.   Finding something new I haven't seen before, developing a character from the depths and advancing him above his expectations, learning something new about the world, or a new spell.  I also enjoy seeing these things happen in other people based on something I have done.  From the outside it seems that nobility is exclusivelly oriented to seeing who can get the upper hand, a fancy king of the hill if you will. My persective may be wrong, but from this vantage point thats what I see. Just not sure it's my cup of tea  

For at least the forseable future I'll stick to playing the bottom of the barrel trying to develop into the best bad guy/good guy they can be. Starting at the top doesn't seem all that interesting..

[Twilight]

I voted other.  

The reason for this is really my playing situation.  I have to be able to go afk immediately, and for sometimes hours at a time.  I'm never solely playing the game for long stretches of time, rather I'm multitasking.  I don't foresee any time when I'll be able to focus solely on the game for hours at end again.  Nevertheless, I still enjoy it, I just have to tailor my roles so that they work with these contraints, and don't impact others too much.

I'm operating at 25% or less of my potential.  Given all this, I would feel bad OOC'ly about slipping into a noble role, but not being able to give it the attention it deserves.  I already did that with one different kind of character thinking I could overcome the OOC constraints, but I couldn't really.

[waroth]

I have played several and enjoyed them all.  I see myself playing one again eventually if the urge strikes me to app for one.   Although I doubt it will be anytime soon as I do enjoy breaks between the heavy leadership roles.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Then maybe Allanak's political life would blossom in a direction that made PC SENATORs who could actually hold SENATE meetings and so forth. Bringing in runners to deliver the decree's to the taverns. The Tavern's would always be abuzz with what someone overheard and the scheming would be epic.

Sounds pretty cool, but it's never going to happen.  If ONE PC ever became a Senator, that would be a miracle.

Other than that, I agree that Tuluk needs to change drastically and finds it own flavor, and one that doesn't include nobility.  Right now all its flavor ever consisted of was a "They're... well... umm... subtle?  Gotta go!" from the immortals which mutated into a generation of bunny-hugging and lack of grittiness before eventually changing into a form that's basically Allanak II.

Fuck consistency.  Fuck believability.  Tuluk happened all wrong and should be rectified immediately.

[Kankman]

CRW spoke every word I'm too lazy to write down. The whole Golden Age yadda yadda. Even playing a commoner in a city with such bustling noble activity was more interesting. More spies. More opportunity for theft. I think it boils down to more condensed habitable space = more player interaction.

In recent time I have realized that I play a much more entertaining and plot-pushing underling than overling. Hence, I doubt I will play a noble in the near future. (READ: If I sent you an application for one TURN ME DOWN.)

[Selie]

I'm a newbie, so obviously I haven't applied for one and probably won't any time in the remotely near future. However, I think they're interesting and if I find that I enjoy leadership positions if I ever work up to trying one out later, I might consider it. If the imms don't decide I'm a moron and nuke my character first.

I haven't read any compelling arguments (IMHO) for closing the Tuluk nobility until I read this thread. Then I realized, hey, I don't know what to think when I think about Tuluk. Are they barbarians? More civilized? I don't know. They like poetry and art and civilized stuff, but they're supposedly barbarians (even though that seems contradictory to me). Unless someone's going to say they're like the Vikings, who liked poetry and stuff but also went around raiding and pillaging with big swords, I'm going to continue to be confused. I'l work it out eventually. But I do hope that the nobility becomes bustling and full sometime while I'm playing. It sounds like it's interesting no matter what level you're playing on.

[Kalden]

Right now all its flavor ever consisted of was a "They're... well... umm... subtle? Gotta go!" from the immortals which mutated into a generation of bunny-hugging and lack of grittiness before eventually changing into a form that's basically Allanak II.

I think the problem largely lies in the (mostly poor, I have to say) players up there who don't understand what subtlety means, and an overall atmosphere that doesn't encourage shady PCs in the right way. The way it's built doesn't help shady PCs, either. Hard to play a burglar up there, and the ruins isn't a city place...it's a wilderness place.

If you were going to eliminate nobility, the society would become...merit-based? Everyone vies to be picked as a new Templar? Or one noble family, which is the Templarate?

[EvilRoeSlade]

Going as far as to eliminate the largely unsuccessful Tuluki nobility would be going too far, in my opinion.

I was thinking more along the lines of a massive overhaul that virtualized the nobility and created ways to function without it.

[Vanth]

Rather than saying, "Doesn't work for me, get rid of it," I'd be interested in hearing constructive suggestions for how to make the northlands, with or without nobles, more interesting for those who seem to find it flawed.

Can anyone make any suggestions along that vein?

[Larrath]

This has been brought up many times before, but I'd like the Winrothol/Tenneshi conflict to simply exist in the Northlands.
As far as I could tell when I was playing in the North, in one of the Houses, it wasn't -really- there, or at least not out in the open.

Tuluk is subtle, but I don't think it's subtle to the level where simply making one clever remark about your worst enemy is enough to appease anyone.  Tuluk has far, far too much bunny-huggery.  People confuse being subtle with being nice - if a half-elf is going to sit with your subtle Tuluki fop, I think that smiling and making the tiniest comment (if any at all) about them isn't realistic.  Sitting somewhere else or making them want to leave is more like it.
Most importantly, the problem with Tuluk, I feel, is that you will absolutely never ever die there unless you actively seek death.  It's extremely easy to make a living off of hunting and forage and merchanting, resources are cheap and there are multiple shops where you can sell things.  Unless you go and spit on a noble, everyone will be your friend.  I don't like that.

I think I would like Tuluk to actually have real 'quality control' imposed by the Templarate.  If the Templars think that you damage the quality of the city, that is enough to make you disappear.  In order words, simply make Tuluk like a would-be Utopia of sorts where no social (more on a mental rather than physical level) misfits are accepted.
Tuluk simply lacks an edge.  Anything to do with real conflict is simply buried so deeply in there that one can play there for months and never know a thing - which leads to many people playing Tulukis, I believe, in a purely incorrect manner.


In a sentence, I'd like to see a group of 'artistic raiders' that could strike terror on hunters but be on the Templarate's good side because they plan everything meticulously and carefully sap their victims' hope by use of props (skeletons and tattered clothes and such) before they go in for the kill.
I do not want to be able to make any simple Tuluki crafter, make friends with two of the five hundred hunters in the city and proceed to be ridiculously rich without ever having to lift a finger.

[Gaare]

I'd be interested in hearing constructive suggestions for how to make the northlands, with or without nobles, more interesting for those who seem to find it flawed.

I believe northlands is good enough and has rich resource for anything at all.  I think players find it boring because well.. As players, most of us begin playing in Allanak and in veins we are 'naki. Tuluk is another world really.. Here are my humble suggestions, but as I said I do believe it is beatiful enough


- More deep and introductional documents for northern noble players could be benefical.

- Adding more active power points in the subtle game in northlands. Like Bardic Circles do not have much IG power which is not reflecting virtual level.

- Making criminal world of Tuluk more active ICly could make northlands more colorful.

- Increasing status of merchant houses in Tuluk, may create a larger PC population for elite kind of RP. (This makes sense since merchant houses are rather important then how they are in Allanak considering their efforts during rebirth of Tuluk)

- More rewarding and punishment system for nobles, house merchants and templars according to their success or failures. So the outcomes of subtle struggle could be seen by many. Such as more instant increase and descrease of stripends, giving or taking back men and women under direct order or big announcements of successes or praises.

For example, I would like to see all ranks of caste to speak or know about a noble or merchant after organizing a succesful bardic competition or capturing a southorn templarate or militia scum.

Shortly I would like to see prestige of elites of Tuluk to be increased or decreased by tasks they -recently- do. By this way, they would be more eager for making plots and earn power since rewards of those actions would come directly and the race of gaining prestige would increase. Also if those rewards would be in public sense (such as giving rights to successful people to make great shows for public crowd with assistance of templarate) I am quite sure there would be more struggle and rich rp instruments for any layer of the caste from slaves to templarate.

[moab]

Rather than saying, "Doesn't work for me, get rid of it," I'd be interested in hearing constructive suggestions for how to make the northlands, with or without nobles, more interesting for those who seem to find it flawed.

Can anyone make any suggestions along that vein?

In all honesty, a war that finally dooms the city and forces loyalist northerners into actually fighting to survive would be better.  The nobles (hiding in among the masses) would be the leaders of this survival as everyone learns to rough it.

Essentially turning Tuluk back into what it was pre-rebuild.

The stress and strife caused by occupying forces, struggle for survival and trying to hold to your own idea of morality and ethics when confronted with a stronger foe who doesn't share those beliefs would be _far_ more interesting than what exists in Tuluk now.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that which Tuluk was accused of before (compliancy and wooden role play) note: the previous was not a comment on any particular player at all is still in full effect, mostly due to the abundant resources and relative ease of obtaining many things.

But that's just me and it probably suggests just what you asked not to suggest.  Sorry!   :oops: