Allanak and Tuluk sentiments

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

John wrote:

Doesn't sound like nakkies have too much of a problem with Red Stormers

That's probably because Red Storm didn't win its independence with years of terrorist-like actions and a bloody war.
That, and Red Stormers don't dress and talk funny like Tulukis do...
Citizenship wrote:

For many freemen, the fact of citizenship in one city-state or another means simply which yoke one is oppressed under.

I've always interpreted this more as an OOC note to players, reminding them that even if your character is frolicking in the eclectic gardens of Tuluk, or living the high life and buying the drinks in the Barrel, they're still living under a brutal theocracy.
But perhaps your interpretation is 'more valid'. Who's to say?
John wrote:

They don't worship Tektolnes from loyalty, but from an immediate fear. In a city with another god, the fear of Tektolnes probably doesn't seem as bad as the fear of the local god.

You're correct that commoners worship their god-kings out of fear. But I'm farily certain the templarate would be quick to see the benefit of instilling fear in the common populace for the opposing god-king. That way, when something bad happens, they can just blame that villainous Muk Utep or that murderer Tektolnes.
Even if you hate the goverment with every fiber of your being, they can still control the way you think to some extent... espicially if you're illiterate and have never been outside its borders.
I will admit, however, that this is a particular reason for distrusting outsiders is probably only IC for templars, militia members, or other people that are on the god-king's payroll.
As for the rest, there are plenty of other good reasons to distrust them as I outlined in my previous posts.
Manhattan wrote:

There's no grey area in Zalanthas?

No, no. There's plenty of grey area. Grey area is preferred, actually.
I'm just saying I'd prefer to see people lean towards darker shades of grey.
John wrote:

Aah, cool. Perhaps the docs could be updated to reflect that? Because there's no indication in them (and they can be interpretted to mean there isn't).

Yeah, I think it'd be good to stick this in the docs somewhere, too. I assumed Tuluk/Allanak animosity was a given, something people would automatically incorporate into their characters given the brutal, racist, xenophobic nature of most Zalanthans.
But I can see others decided not to make that assumption. An official statement in the docs about the level of distrust/mistrut/hate (I'm not really one for semantics, just insert which ever one you think is appropriate) between city-dwellers would be nifty.

[Anonymous]

I think people take too much of a western viewpoint into things like this.  Specifically how far back their memories go.  I remember listening to an interview with an Iraqi Kurd.  The interviewer asked him why he hated the Turkmen and he said that it was because they burned his great grandfather's fields.  I think it's highly likely that in a lower-technology civilization where someone's actions against you can mean the difference between survival and starvation people are much more likely to bear grudges.

The Allanakis murdered, raped and pillaged from your very recent ancestors.

Those Tuluki barbarians slaughtered good young Allanaki soldiers who were only there to keep that Utep fucker from trying to overtake Allanak.  They also wounded the Allanaki pride.

I think the one factor that really throws a kink into the whole works is the merchant houses.  Having a large population of the playerbase travelling between Allanak and Tuluk as part of their jobs detracts from the sense of hostility.  You like Bob the merchant, Bob goes to Allanak and does business, well I guess not all Allanakis are bad.  It's a slippery slope.

[amoeba]

I think people take too much of a western viewpoint into things like this.  Specifically how far back their memories go.  I remember listening to an interview with an Iraqi Kurd.  The interviewer asked him why he hated the Turkmen and he said that it was because they burned his great grandfather's fields.  I think it's highly likely that in a lower-technology civilization where someone's actions against you can mean the difference between survival and starvation people are much more likely to bear grudges.

This is back to the problem I stated. I agree with you completely, but since each PC starts out brand new, with only what they have put into thier background, any long term grudges and rivalries seem quite far removed and academic.   Everything is discussed in broad terms, discussing the populace at general and governmental positions.  People when it comes down to it don't care about all that.  They care about themselves and the people around them.

Trying to instill some distrust and even hatred of the other city-state I would think requires more than,  "Why do you hate them?" ,  "It's because they are different and wear funny clothes."  Huh? Having something along the lines of "Thier templar sent a flithly magicker in and killed my uncle, my girlfriend, and my pet treggil."  Real motivation goes a long way to making real conflict. Give people something to put thier hands around and you will have plenty of distrust and hate exhibited. Continue to leave it academic and you will have lots of these types of threads.

How do you do this? Well for one things need to continue to happen.  Take any of the current  conflicts going on. Now if no one attacked the other for generations, the tensions would ease considerably.  Keep "things" happening. Even simple things like the bartender talking about how his nieghbor was gutted and thrown to the pits when he traveled to 'nak to do some trading would help.  PC's can say similar things.  For all the people wringing thier hands  over how little hate is shown, get involved, Tell a few stories, make it real for that newbie, so he can get a feel for it.  One group  that does this pretty well are the desert elves.  The conflicts there feel much more immediate and involved.

[Cuusardo]

Note: If you are playing a Tuluki, you would know very well of a recent battle that took place between northern and southern forces.  I won't go into details, but I will say that a lot of Tulukis are still pretty sore about it.

And on the subject of taking over and all that stuff, no one really knows why Allanak wanted to take over Tuluk.  (Yes, I know there are exceptions, but for argument's sake let's pretend we're talking about your average John Q. Public.)  Everyone has their own suspicions and hunches, and they aren't all alike.  No one really knows why Allanak hasn't tried to take over Red Storm, but those who know about it have their theories as well.  Those are largely up to a player to decide what the character believes.

[Malifaxis]

There's being extreme and then there's just being childishly extreme.

A Tuluki/Allanaki would associate with an Allanaki/Tuluki on several ocassions:
To profit
To mock them
To gain information
To sow disinformation
To slowly torture them
To get them drunk enough to murder
To rape the ever loving shit out of them
To get them drunk enough to sell into slavery
To lure them into a situation suitable for blackmail

[Revelations]

Personally, I think if the larger 'forces' such as Houses or the Senate began enforcing things that portrayed dislike to the north/south, the commoners would follow suite. Commoners, or even well-placed merchants/junior nobles can do very little in this regard, IMO, if the upper forces don't do anything.

[Larrath]

Personally, I think if the larger 'forces' such as Houses or the Senate began enforcing things that portrayed dislike to the north/south, the commoners would follow suite. Commoners, or even well-placed merchants/junior nobles can do very little in this regard, IMO, if the upper forces don't do anything.

Most merchants (the Merchant Houses at least, anyway) probably won't want to encourage more fighting anyway.

However, this doesn't mean that there is nothing other people can't do.  You can become a patriotic raider.  You can work for one of the slaving Houses and capture opposing citizens to be slaves.  You can try to sabotage the stability/standing of one of the Houses, inspire terror, or lay ambush to one of the city's patrols.
Maybe a templar's or noble's superiors won't always do these things on their own, but if the templar/noble did them successfully, I doubt they won't find their superiors pleased.
Selling a bunch of northerners to Borsail or the Templarate can be good for a commoner, too.  First of all, you get paid and the House/Templars will probably like you for that.  Second, the sold slaves will probably get thrown into the Arena, which is also just plainly awesome.
And if you just give the other city trouble, you might be able to make a mutually beneficial arrangement with the Militia, the Templarate, or even find a Noble sponsor.