Kank vs. Elf

[theebie]

Lets say you're in a strict military organization, I'll call it the Bym,
and you're an elven runner, who gets ordered by the big meanie
human sergeant to jump over 'selfs pride, and get on that fuckin' kank
to go on Mission-X.

What'd the elf do ?


---the curious---

[Manhattan]

Deliver a swift kick to the Sergeant's balls, then quit the Byn because he doesn't want to hurt his pride.

[theebie]

It's Bym, not Byn, all hypothetically :)

So does that mean there are no elves in the Bym ? How comes there
are some elven sergeants ?

[John]

I agree with Manhattan. And if the Sergeant does force you to hop on the kank (emotes tying you to a kank), then I'd say you've got yourself an enemy.

This raises a good question. City elves don't get the movement bonus D-Elves get. How is a city elf suppose to survive on away missions in the Byn? Is it just a case of "they won't"?

[Ghost]

How is a city elf suppose to survive on away missions in the Byn? Is it just a case of "they won't"?

They don't.  They just refuse to go there unless, they are definately going to lose their lives or more if they don't go there.

The city elf concept is, they choose not to go to the desert for some reason.  And they stick to that rule.  
(MAYBE A VERY BAD EXAMPLE, BUT STILL I THINK, HOLDS A LITTLE TRUTH) Just like your average commoner.  Everyday in Allanak, commoners die of dehydration and starvation at the door of the Dragon Temple.  If they just grab a glass hacker, or some other tool however, they -might- have a chance of survival or even more.  But they don't step out.

The city elves is something like that.  The city they live in is the only option they have to rely on for survival.

[moab]

If I were a city elf in that situation, I would quit.

And, as Ghost said, playing a city elf, you just wouldn't leave the city unless you were going to run / walk despite not having the coded bonus. Perhaps you do this because you have pride and want to prove yourself, who knows?

Who can say?  Maybe the Sergeant is looking for a way to make you quit?

[Spoon]

I seem to remember city elves get some sort of bonus to stamina, but I'm not sure if it does anything outside.

The only problem is that now, an elf following a group of kanks is going to be left behind at some point unless they are running.

I'm pretty certain the.... er Bym would be crawling with elves. What have players of elven mercenaries done in the past?

[LBO]

The one time I used the Byn to escort a character of mine from Tuluk to Allanak they had some elven scout who ran alongside the kanks and the whole unit would stop periodically, unroll a tent and let him recuperate inside before heading off again. Didn't add too much time to the journey (which shouldn't be done too quickly anyway in my opinion) and didn't seem a real inconvenience to me. So maybe the Byn could advise this Bym to purchase a tent for their elven mercenaries...

[Zharal]

I have to say I dont really agree with all this.  Just cause an elf is a city elf doesn't mean he won't venture into the sands to gain crafting materials, hunting or just your curious type.  There not locked into just a city role as far as I know.  As for the mounts, yes it is against there nature and would be frowned upon by other elves if not made fun of or totally shunned depending on the individuals.  But that doesnt mean an elf cant go against the nature of things or do it in hopes of servival from a superior.  Though I do think its a bit rude to force someone into a situation like that, knowing it goes against such things and would create a situation for the player.  Most elves I saw or played in the byn usally had to bring a tent along to rest during desert missons or such.

[Larrath]

Asking an elf to ride along on a mission is like asking one of your male mercenaries to come in dressed in a frilly silk bra and a skirt with its front cut out, and a few brightly colored streamers hanging off of what's visible there, and walk around town like that, having to look at friends that will absolutely never understand.

I don't think anyone short of a suitably focused dwarf or a half-giant would ever ask an elf to ride because riding elves are simply underheard of everyhwere.  Nobody has ever seen a riding elf, elves -or- humans, and nobody would expect one to.

An elf can ride if his life literally depended on him sitting on a kank's back, or maybe if the elf found a special mount that can do something he can't (like, say, ride through solid rock...and even that is debateable), but otherwise just never.
All in all, maybe one out of every hundred PC elves ever run into an actually solid justification to get on a mount, and possibly not even that.

[Whira's Luck]

I have seen PC elves survive the Byn and even get into positions of authority in the Byn so no, it's not impossible or even improbable, just very difficult.

The title of this post makes me think of Spy vs. Spy.

[Manhattan]

City elves can't ride kanks, and they run all the time. I imagine this is a drain on stamina points. Solution? Don't play a city elf unless you intend to stay in the city, or die in the sands.

[Whira's Luck]

City elves can't ride kanks, and they run all the time. I imagine this is a drain on stamina points. Solution? Don't play a city elf unless you intend to stay in the city, or die in the sands.

Again, this is not necessarily the case that I've seen on more than one occasion. While it is more -difficult- to survive as a city-elf outside the city, it can also be difficult to survive as a human, kank-riding or otherwise outside the city. I wouldn't go far as to limit what someone can play in such a regard, at least in pointing specifically to city-elves.

[Malifaxis]

City elves can ride kanks.

All they have to do is decide they are going to.

However, they have been, since year one, ingrained with the idea that riding anything is the most dishonorable and wussy way to bitch out ever conceived.  *Most* city elves would die before being made to look like a bitch before his blood.  If word got out in your social circle that you were a 'rider' it would basically have the exact same effect as if your family/professors/buddies found out that you were a child raper.

It basically comes down to this, when you're staring at a possible mantis:
"Would I, as my elf, rape a child to save my own life?"  Please try to keep the point of view as if your elf were not catholic clergy or deep south republican.

There is no mystic force surrounding kanks that keeps elves off.

It's all a matter of choice, and one that is commonly made one way.

[Sholdyn]

I don't think anyone could have said it any better, Malifaxis.  :twisted:

[Incognito]

Generally, an elf would not ride a mount.

But, if said elf, has his eyes set on becoming a Byn sergeant (or something like that), and sticking with the Company for a long period, he might forego his innate hatred for this act, and force himself to learn, just so that he might be able to participate on missions and achieve his goal.

But, on the other hand, if word of his being a kank-lover got out, all the other elves in contact with said elf, would treat him like shit - lower than any other race (and believe me, elves have a super racial superiority complex).

So, if said elf is willing to suffer becoming an outcast in the eyes of other city elves, then he might go ahead and ride a mount.

[Delirium]

I doubt that wanting to be a Byn Sergeant would convince an elf to kill his pride.

He'd walk, and carry a tent.

[Xygax]

Generally, an elf would not ride a mount.

No, this needs to be phrased more strongly.  Never, ever, ever would an elf ride a kank (or mount any creature for the purposes of riding it), unless it were for a few moments and to save his life (and maybe not even then, as Malifaxis suggests).  And he would then forever live with the shame of the act.

But, if said elf, has his eyes set on becoming a Byn sergeant (or something like that), and sticking with the Company for a long period, he might forego his innate hatred for this act, and force himself to learn, just so that he might be able to participate on missions and achieve his goal.

No elf would ever commit such a low act for a reason like this.  It's not a choice of being outcast by his peers, it's a matter of doing something utterly foreign and even downright heinous.  No elf would consider it for any price less than their life.

-- X

[Xygax]

Don't be the elf riding the kank!

[Incognito]

Dont I sound like tha fool ;)

[Player99]

There could always be a coded solution to this problem. Elves - unacustomed to riding, could get back pains from the position IF they ever decided to do it. Or perhaps their cockstyx would get bruised from the movement, or they bounced up and down on their balls.

Make it if a elf ever got on a kank, they start to lose 2-3 hp a room, that'll teach the newbies who can't grasp the concept.

Or... their overdeveloped thighs chafe and blister uncontrolably while rubbing against the kank?

[Cenghiz]

Forgive me.. But I'm seeing this thread is becoming nothing but a trial to find an excuse to make an elf ride a kank. Enough is said both by the immortals and players.
Elves don't ride kanks, maybe - 0.001% probability to accept riding for an elf, the character must be really really rare - unless when they're being chased by 45 undead gith and deadly tired and after making sure they won't be seen by anyone with a mind to tell it later even in that situation.
I'm used to having a pack animal with my d-elves, which's usable for carrying weight. I've had situations of life'n'death, all I did was tiring the kank running and leaving the tired kank behind, which would possibly slow down the pursuer - the pursuer would hitch my kank, would realise it was too tired to walk, would see the goodies on it and would hopefully give up pursuing me not to leave the free kank and goodies behind.
It's something just like having sex with your mother, or eating garbage. Not something that can be done for small profit.

EDITED TO ADD: Yep.. Tiring the kank means running with all might with the kank hitched. When the kank gets damned tired it simply stops following. It works to give that kind of bribe to the pursuers.

[sacac]

They'd still die Cenghiz.

They have never ridden on a kank in their life.

And Codely, they just started the game on their "ride" skill.

[Revelations]

I agree. Even if an elf is dead tired with a horde of torturous gith just behind, an elf would likely take her chance with her own limbs and fighting abilities (pride) than hopping on a mount that they think as more of a helpful object than a transport. And trying to get away on a mount that you've never before ridden would be silly considering it's a life or death situation, where turning around and fighting would be a better chance of survival than mounted combat with your back turned. And in any other situation besides getting forced by more powerful being, I doubt a sane elf would even consider it.

Personally, I think this aspect of the thread has been refuted enough.  :wink:

[Socko]

I think Cenghiz meant that he'd lead the kank on, tiring it out-- not riding it.

Basically, he's running till the kank can't keep up, leaving it behind with bundles of goods and objects upon its back, and hoping his persuers would be satiated by that, causing them to forget about his slightly unfortunate (and now slightly poorer) elf.

[bloodfromstone]

ELF WINS.

FATALITY!



*cough*

[John]

Heh, I just realized PC elves will never, ever ride a mount if their life depends on it. Mainly because mounts are impossible to move if you've never ridden on it (do elves even get the ride skill? It's a rhetorical question)

[amoeba]

Heh, I just realized PC elves will never, ever ride a mount if their life depends on it. Mainly because mounts are impossible to move if you've never ridden on it (do elves even get the ride skill? It's a rhetorical question)

Rangers do, and they can ride pretty much right away. I think the ride skill should not be availblle to elves, it's silly to see it in your skill list.

[Anonymous]

So what about a desert elf without a desert background? If I wanted to make an elf that could roll with the bym homies (without the added frusteration of a tent) what would I do? Would I have to special app?

[Northlander]

Yeah, you'd mail the Bym imms and CC mud@ginka.armagedon.org. I believe it's been accepted before. Though it's been debated, desert elves are, last I heard, not genetically different from city elves. It's merely upbringing - and there are elves enough in the Bym to have a kid for the organisation to train.

I'd like to raise the question of whether a city elf would ever run with a Byn unit on a patrol, carrying a tent or having it carried for him, and holding up the group with naps. I think city elves, while knowing in their hearts that they might be inferior to kanks, would rarely put it to a test, and even more seldomly make it a public one. Perhaps they can forget being inferior here if they feel they are absolutely vital later in the mission..
There are several positions in the Byn suitable for average city elves, but their out-of-city work may be best limited to all-out war-time campaigning at a battlefield not too far.

[Revelations]

So what about a desert elf without a desert background? If I wanted to make an elf that could roll with the bym homies (without the added frusteration of a tent) what would I do? Would I have to special app?

Desert elves typically would not be living without a tribe of their own, and so wouldn't likely even be in the Bym. And if you wanted a city-elf that could run like a desert elf, it isn't much of a city-elf now, is it? If you thought you would absolutely need to "roll with the bym", then a different race such as a half-elf/human would be a better alternative than an elf (both desert or city). There are docs on the elven persona which would better clarify some aspects on elves.

[Dracul]

Actually...I could see an elf as claiming the byn to be their tribe. And...if they were raised in the desert...with the byn. Well why not?

But the also why not let there be desert huma-...err...no. I could see it workign though

[Xygax]

A desert elf without a desert elf background is a special application at best.  You should probably work a concept like that out with both the special app imm (Naiona now, I think), and the desert-elf staff (Bhagarva, currently, if I'm not mistaken or this post isn't outdated as you read it).

I doubt this application would be approved, unless it were relatively remarkable.

-- X

ps -  This thread is pretty well answered, and definitely starting to wander aimlessly, so I'm going to lock it.