pills vs bandages

[King of the squid]

I was thinking, the brew skill is 100% effective the entire time, while bandage makign is rather difficult to get good at. Realistically, how hard is it to cut a piece of linen into strips, while if would be very hard to perfectly craft a pill....
opinions?
mebbe switch the two?

[Larrath]

Brew is simply bugged.  It's not supposed to always be that effective.
Bandagemaking, as far as I know, isn't bugged and is supposed to be difficult...though if one particular item seems too difficult to make, you can email the MUD or typo it in-game.  If you do, I'd recommend including your Guild and Subguild in paranthesis.

[Revelations]

Aye for one. The act of bandaging is fine, just the process of making the bandage that doesn't seem realistic. But, I do know of some kinds of bandages that might be as hard as it is portrayed currently to make, but aside from the exceptions, it should be easier.

[Dracul]

Aye for one. The act of bandaging is fine, just the process of making the bandage that doesn't seem realistic. But, I do know of some kinds of bandages that might be as hard as it is portrayed currently to make, but aside from the exceptions, it should be easier.

Not only that, you should be able to try and make bandages from the shirt you tore off...but...eh.

Can do that anyways, but no coded effect.

[sacac]

The bandage_making skills is difficult to get better at because you can make a fortune rather easily with it.

[Revelations]

Well...true. Perhaps make the easier bandages much less, and the higher skilled ones with a big jump in prices as well as failures in making them.

So, what I propose is that there is one universal bandage that physicians can make from practically anything...torn shirt, linen, bandanas, the whole deal. And, all the rest of the bandages would be with the same success/failure rates as it currently is. At least for now, until the difficulty of making a certain bandage is proportional with your skill...if it will ever be implemented. The price for the really easy to make bandage would be like...10 sid, sold at 3...or something like that.

[moab]

Do people actually used the bandage skill anyway?
I've rarely if ever seen anyone bandaged using the code.  It seems we heal to fast.

I would also think that serious injury should result in perm stat decrease until bandaged or magicked by a water mage.

[sacac]

What I'd like to see is a variety of sizes of bandages.

Right now you can make one and it fits everywhere on your body and over the next guy if you want to have sex with the bleeder.

[Foamy007]

I see them used, I myself love playing a physician.... but it does take some time to get ppl to realize that you are one and that you are there to stitch them up and all that jazz....

I feel that more ppl should be open to physician classes and let them in to help them, alot of people wont even let a physician help them if they are bleeding profusely in the dorm of a tavern, ive had situations where him standing there holding the bandage and they tell me to go away well thats what i do, i just shrug and walk away, but I would like it more if ppl would stumble into the tavern mumbling "is there a doctor in the house" or something like that because it would make for some serious role plays, especially you hunters out there who take on entire packs of gortok take a couple of heavy hits and shrug it off, minor nicks and maybe a slash or two is fine, but when you get viciously slashed on the neck enough to bloody your gear. You are obviously bleeding and probably in danger of a bleed out unless you tend the wound, and then after you simply wrap it up, you need to have it stitched or reopen it everytime you hunt, not to mention you folks who do alot of climbing and almost always fall at least once, you eventually will break a bone, whether it be just a finger, or an entire leg. Im not putting you down, im just saying id like to see more chances for the physician to set up a private practice and come running down the street after getting wayed by the barkeep that theres another bloody and broken hunter on his floor who just stumbled in out of a storm even if code wise he has healed rp wise he would still be bleeding and have a broken leg from where he fell.

Just a thought from a lowly want to be combat medic for the army. *sigh*

[Revelations]

I think having more uses for physicians would help with the roleplaying part. Currently, if it's just a few nicks, or there isn't alot of bleeding, or very little if at all, you can't bandage the person. I mean, even a bandaid in RL helps keep things clean and better, even if it's a paper cut. You might not need one, but having one prevents it from getting any worse with accidental contact or whatnot. I think it should be the same IG, and although you can still heal naturally without a physician, having a physician tend to a small cut or sprain should help quicken the healing process slightly. (Not to mention give new physicians a way to practice without needing to wait until someone is dying on the floor...which in that case the physician is bound to fail.)

So, to sum it up, increase the number of usefulness of physicians without increasing the number of injuries sustained.

By placing more emphasis upon wounds and healing, I think it'll increase the feel of harshness that the game focuses upon so much.

[Also, though not apart of the thread, I think there should be more instances of minor diseases and illnesses affecting the populace. For example, being in the rinth should increase the likelihood of getting X and Y illnesses, while being in the desert should increase the likelihood of N and M. These bouts don't need to last long, or even be severe, but enough to give some trouble.]

[Cuusardo]

I used the bandage skill quite often with the last character I had with it.

[Xygax]

Someone on the staff has mentioned undertaking the effort to make brew work like other crafting systems...  I'll let them elaborate further, if they so choose.

-- X

[King of the squid]

wait! waht have i done! i love being able to not screw up everytime! lol

[Savak]

"Brew" was never intended to be a 100% effective skill.  Instead it was implemented early with relatively few final products, with the intent of tweaking it as new potential products were added.  That never really developed.  I'm not completely sure what the latest plans are, but fleshing the skill out more fully has been brought up a few times.

[moab]

If we simply slowed down the healing process, I bet physicians and water clerics would come into their own.

[Delirium]

And maybe people wouldn't keep insisting on sparring until they 'don't look well' (on purpose).  :roll:

[Dan]

It was slowed down once before for this reason, simply put, we tried that and it didn't seem to work. Was it not enough of a change or was it not slowed down too much, I cannot be sure of that.

I believe the problem lies elsewhere, where that may be I am not sure.

All I know is that for some of the entirely independant characters, any more of a slow down would probably force us into extinction when combined with the not-so-recent storm code changes and the addition of more water being necessary for travel in the wastes.

I am not sure what the 'fix' might be, but there is still a place for physicians as things stand if people would be more apt to wait for someone to bandage them up after their more brutal sparring sessions. Instead of going to sleep in the barracks for fifteen minutes.

[Malifaxis]

If we simply slowed down the healing process, I bet physicians and water clerics would come into their own.

I wouldn't really say that they are out of their own right now.  The healing process is pretty alright, imho, as long as serious wounds are roleplayed out.

Ever seen a horrendous wound in real life?  Like something you really can't feel comfortable looking at?  I have... they aren't pretty.  And I can imagine what an axe would do to someone if they were 'chopped viciously' with it.  Or a machete.  Jason, anyone?  Sure, not 100% realistic, but still, it gives a comparison.

If you get wholloped to the head for like 80pts stun and 50 hp, for the love of Vendyra you should bloody well roleplay that.  Maybe even use that nifty 'change locdesc' command to get that empty eyesocket you've always wanted.  (You know you do... personally, I want it to say
left wrist             an empty right eyesocket
but that's just me.)

Keep in mind that I'm not saying 'Stay there and bleed and die' but I am saying 'When you get your beaten to hell ass back to safety, you stay there for a few days and recuperate, or get a cast on your broken limb, or whatever, you damn choad.'

Personally I think it would be cool if some people did stay there and bleed and die, and I think I may have even known one PC that did just that.  But human will is amazing and you can force your ripped to crap body to still do incredible things.

But come on... if a turtle as big as a house steps on your head 'horrendously' or if a thing the size of a pony, shaped lke a pitbull, eyes like a hammerhead, mouth full of fucking daggers and covered in scales leaps out and bites your neck 'viciously', you're going to feel it for weeks.

At least.

em gets off his soapbox and wanders on over to Spawnloser's pad.

[Anonymous]

And maybe people wouldn't keep insisting on sparring until they 'don't look well' (on purpose).  :roll:

Well, not to quibble...  Actually I want to quibble.  I don't worry so much about the health level my PC gets to, within reason, as much as I worry about how they got their.  A guy who gets barely hit or nicked for 30 hit points is going to be in a lot better shape than the guy who takes a grevious wound to the neck for 25.

[Delirium]

True.  I concede that point.

But when you get smacked in the arm by a half-giant, or viciously slashed on the neck (even with a blunt weapon) you're going to feel it.  At least roleplay a bruise for a day or two.. sheesh.

[Wounded Kank]

I don't like that you have to be so wounded that you're not healing naturally in order to use a coded bandage. It makes for a very small range of health where you're hurt enough to need a bandage, but not hurt so much that it's beyond your skill to heal. Suggest allowing bandages for one health state before natural healing stops.

That would allow physicians to kill a lot more ppl with bandages, which as we all know is a funny way to go.

I like the idea of making brew a learned skill, and expanding what it can do, too!

[Delirium]

I don't like that you have to be so wounded that you're not healing naturally in order to use a coded bandage.

I humbly suggest that you get better at bandaging and experiment some more.

[HunterKiller]

I agree, for consistency "brew" should probably be treated like a normal skill that you can fail at.  Maybe mirror it after the craft skill in certain respects.

As hitpoints go, I would rather them act similar to stamina with certain clothes, your points don't necessarily go as high as your character's capability.  So if you spar and get a lot of cuts and bruises all over your body, your health shouldn't shoot back up to max with just a little breather - your points should level off lower than your max until such time that those cuts and bruises can realistically heal (the lower your hps got, the longer this will take).  Bandages (and less obvious stuff) would heal the wounds as well as make the points level off higher than if no supplement agent was used (they would get closer to what the character's max is capable of).

- HK

[Maybe42or54]

Hk, would it take a certain amount of playing time to heal, or would it be virtual time?

If You have to play a certain amount of time before you get healed, then that is putting people that don't log on for 9 hours a day at a severe disadvantage. Then I wouldn't even know if virtual time can be measured. If it can be measured, I don't see what will stop people from logging on, sparring, logging off for an hour or two and logging back on. I like the way it currently is.

For an example, IRl, when I get cuts, they dont affect me at all after an hour or two, at the most. Would that be reflected ig with the Endurance stat?

All in all, I am thinking it would take:
Too much time.
Be really difficult.
Not really worth the effort.
Buggy.
Easily twinkied.
No fun?

[HunterKiller]

Hk, would it take a certain amount of playing time to heal, or would it be virtual time?

It would go by the game's clock like everything else in the game does.  Then your cuts would be healing regardless if you were playing or had logged off - either way, it would take the same amount of time to heal.  If the game crashed, it would probably need to be reset similar to how shops and npcs are reset after a crash.  You would still have the option of role-playing out the soreness <-- and therein lies one of the large points of this idea, it would no longer be up to the player to role-play a realistic event you have no control over in real-life.

IRl, when I get cuts, they dont affect me at all after an hour or two, at the most.

You don't notice them an hour or two after you get cut (depending on the severity of the cut) but you will if they rub on clothes, get bumped, get touched by anything in any way (unless you're wearing a band-aid which brings us back to bandages and why they'd make the current max higher than if untreated).  A papercut it noticeable if messed with in any way.  A paper cut on a finger is noticed even if you move said finger a certain way.

Putting aside the issues of "cuts", if you've sparred (or worse fought for your life), it's realistic to assume bruises and perhaps fractures will linger a good deal after said event.  This will be outwardly noticeable to those looking at you, maybe you're limping, favoring your side, wincing for no apparent reason, etc.  These would all be reasons others could tell you've fought within a short period of time, so if your body's hitpoints are not maxing, this will be evident to others besides yourself.

All in all, I am thinking it would take:
Too much time.
Be really difficult.
Not really worth the effort.
Buggy.

Imms are perfectly capable of making this change if they like it.  So these all kinda fall under the same issue of:
Is it worth the effort?

I think so.  It would benefit the various healers, make more obvious what the character has been doing (you could tell from a glance who just got into a fight), offer new strategies to kill an enemy (think buff loner vs. many weaker foes), discourage lots of sparring within a short period of time (discouraging without an immortal present), a continual reminder for the player their body is still hurting / sore.

Easily twinkied.

Nothing in the game is void of that threat.  Give me an example.

No fun?

That's subjective.  There are always advantages to knowing your enemy is weak.  It would open up a lot of doors for those who weren't expecting it.  It might also force some players into situations that wouldn't have happened otherwise.  Few things draw aggression quicker than a sure sign of weakness.

Like most things it could be something that improved with ability.  The body adapts to change so if you're regularly getting beat up anyway it wouldn't be unfeasible to assume your temporary max would raise over time like most skills that are used.

Just a thought.

- HK