The half-elf gene pool

[Revelations]

While writing a character concept, I was wondering if the pointed ears of a half-elf were dominant genes over round ears. And would pointed ears become rounded after continual breeding with individuals with round ears?

Also, if the half elven persona is genetic, from which race of parent would it devolve from? Is the certain gene in all races, and simply needs to be triggered with these conditions? Or, is it simply due to a side-effect of being between cultures and from the reactions of societies regarding them. If it's a side-effect, would it not be possible for a half-elf to not have the continual cycle of passions if the half-elf did not live in such adverse conditions?

Some food for thought for the armadicts.  :wink:

[Larrath]

All half-elves, except maybe a one in a million mutants, will have pointed ears.  The actual size of these ears will vary, but they will never be normal, round human ears.

As far as I'm aware, pointed ears are an extremely dominant trait, as every single dwarf, mul, elf and half-elf has them.

The half-elven bipolar persona is genetic to a large degree, and is reinforced by the environment since half-elves are almost constantly rejected.  I think that the probability of a 'normal' (elf-like or human-like) half-elf is about as high as that of an elf that was taken into isolated captivity as a baby and was taught to live like a human and to ride kanks.

It's not completely impossible in a completely IC sense, but it's ridiculously unlikely.  Maybe if the half-elf had a good psychologist, friends from birth and was taught that he had nothing to prove and that everyone loves him anyway, and even then the half-elf would periodically turn antisocial.

[Cuusardo]

I've run into PCs who have claimed to be human, and their mdescs either say nothing about their ears or describe small, round ears, and when I assess -v'ed them (while playing a human), they were not human.  I even had to ask one of them if it had any elven blood because possible employment was concerned, and it denied the elven blood.  

I don't know if these people were just being twinks, or what.  I had no choice but to roleplay it out as if I thought they were completely human.

[Cenghiz]

Ops.. I'm one of the guilty.. I either have a long neck and slightly elvish eyes but perfectly round ears or a human face and ears hidden by hair when I want to play a half-elf imitating a human. (Uh, never imitated an elf with a halfbreed.)
If -nearly- all half-elves have sharp elven ears then I believe there must be something mentioning about that in the documentation.

[Larrath]

Describing a half-elf with small, round ears is blatant cheating as far as I'm aware.

I view it similarly to people emoting magical effects or changing ldesc to appear as though they were casting/protected/subdued when they're not.

By saying "one in a million", I generally mean an obscure cultural character you might hear about in an arguably true story some bard might tell you, and not really PCs.

[Anael]

How about people picking half-elf coded race in order to play quadroons or whatever? I believe it could actually make an interesting PC concept, a quarter-elf who doesn't know he's got elven blood.

[Jherlen]

I'd think that even a quarter or eighth of elven blood would still show some elven traits... above average height, almond shaped eyes, pointy ears.

I think it's fine for breeds to try and pass themselves off as human by hiding their ears with their hair or headwrap or whatever. More drastically, some might even try to cut off the tips of their ears, maybe (though obviously this would never look totally natural, just stand out a little less.) But for the most part, if you're playing a breed, people should be able to recognise you as a breed. I agree that playing a breed and making yourself look like a normal human with rounded ears is pretty much twinking.

[jmordetsky]

I've run into PCs who have claimed to be human, and their mdescs either say nothing about their ears or describe small, round ears, and when I assess -v'ed them (while playing a human), they were not human.  I even had to ask one of them if it had any elven blood because possible employment was concerned, and it denied the elven blood.  

I don't know if these people were just being twinks, or what.  I had no choice but to roleplay it out as if I thought they were completely human.

I believe the curren oppinion of the staff is that assess -v is IC info. If you assess -v a character and it doesn't seem like they are your race, then there is something about their features that informs you that they are not of your race and you should feel fine about playing it as such (or not playing it out as such.)

That said, there are players who wish to play a character that has trace amounts of elven blood and may or may not be detectable as a half-elf. However, when opting to play said character you should not choose the half-elf race. The half-elf race and the abilities that come with it should be reserved for those with recent enough elven genetic for it to be detectable by the eye. In my opinion we should up date the docs to reflect that, as it's mostly stated on the boards in past threads.

As for Half-elves posing as humans, I personally think it's fine if they have hints to such in their mdesc and after all, racial information garnered via assess -v is IC last I heard. What you do with that IC info is really up to you.

[Anonymous]

All half-elves, except maybe a one in a million mutants, will have pointed ears.  The actual size of these ears will vary, but they will never be normal, round human ears.

Where is this statement backed up by documentation?

[joyofdiscord]

All half-elves, except maybe a one in a million mutants, will have pointed ears.  The actual size of these ears will vary, but they will never be normal, round human ears.

Where is this statement backed up by documentation?

It isn't.  

Tall, roughly between 70 to 80 inches in height, and possessed of deeply etched features, half-elves can resemble their elven parents strongly. On the other hand, half-elves are bulkier and somewhat more hardy than elves, and so can resemble their human parents. Regardless of these attributes, however, half-elves can virtually always pass for either humans or elves.

But for the most part, if you're playing a breed, people should be able to recognise you as a breed. I agree that playing a breed and making yourself look like a normal human with rounded ears is pretty much twinking.

The half-elf race and the abilities that come with it should be reserved for those with recent enough elven genetic for it to be detectable by the eye.

I agree that the coded race should be for a recent mixing, but the "detectable by the eye" and "should be able to recognize you as a breed" parts contradict half-elf docs.  "Virtually always" means that obvious half-elves should be the exception, not the rule.  There should be hints in the mdesc (and I doubt an app would get accepted if it didn't), but even those hints might leave some doubt, regardless of what ass -v says.

[joyofdiscord]

As far as I'm aware, pointed ears are an extremely dominant trait, as every single dwarf, mul, elf and half-elf has them.

Oh, and just as an aside, if you want to talk genetics, "dominant" does not mean "common".  As a matter of fact, it's far more likely that a recessive trait would come to be universal in a population than a dominant trait.  Dominant traits are easily breeded out if they are undesirable, because they manifest themselves even in heterozygous pairings.  If a dominant gene codes for something undesirable, like pointed ears, then even if someone has a pointy-ear gene and a round-ear gene, they will manifest pointy ears and can therefore be passed over by potential mates.  Only someone with a homozygous pairing coding for round ears would be able to mate, if pointy-ears were highly undesirable.

Recessive traits, on the other hand, are almost impossible to get rid of.  If round ears were recessive, we'd expect those genes to still be floating around in elf and dwarf populations (since elves and humans, at the very least, must share a common ancestor, since they can interbreed), with the result that it wouldn't be a great rarity to see a roundeared elf or dwarf.  The only way to stamp out "round ears" as a recessive gene would be to systematically slaughter every blood relative of every round-ear that is born.

Round-ears as a dominant trait means that we'd expect to see a pointy-eared human every now and again, which I believe is the case on Zalanthas.  I think I've read on the board that pointy ears are a relatively common mutation, and therefore probably also fairly likely to pop up once in a while through recessive gene pairings, even if the humans who do manifest the trait never actually manage to breed because they look like filthy breeds.

As a matter of fact, consistently pointy-eared muls are the only contradiction to a round-ear dominant, pointy-ear recessive position.  No big deal, since muls are an exception in a lot of ways, and in actuality, very few genes follow a strict Mendelian dominant-recessive dichotomy.  Plus, Zalanthan heredity could work in a wildly different way, though it's nice to think it's at least somewhat similar to our own world so we can puzzle out these sort of questions.

[adrien]

i made a half-elf be human so i can have an abnormaly tall person  i don't know if thats allowed

[joyofdiscord]

i made a half-elf be human so i can have an abnormaly tall person  i don't know if thats allowed

I don't think so.  There was an incident a while back where someone made a coded half-elf that was supposedly ICly a full blooded elf who got raised by humans, so he decided to pick half-elf.  He came along complaining that he couldn't run like an elf and therefore pass as an elf.  He was informed that his app never should have been accepted in the first place.  The bottom line was this: coded half-elf means an elf and a human had sex, resulting in a child.  Period.  Abnormally tall human should probably be handled through special app.

[Cuusardo]

i made a half-elf be human so i can have an abnormaly tall person  i don't know if thats allowed

If you're going to play a human, pick human as the race.  If you feel your character should be taller than the max height for humans, email the staff first.

Only pick half-elf if your character is a half-elf.

[Savak]

Half-elves don't necessarily have to have pointed ears.

Some half-elves can pass physically as human.

Some half-elves can pass physically as elven.

The most telling and most common feature of a half-elf who does NOT pass physically as human, is pointed ears.

ALL half-elves, regardless of their physical traits, should maintain the general half-elven persona -- striving to fit in, but never quite being satisfied with their lot in life, whether they actually seem to be accepted or not.  Often "acceptance" can require lying about their heritage, so there's a constant fear of being found out, and an inherent lack of trust.  Etc. etc.

However, if you want to play a tall human -- play a tall human.  A half-elf with physical traits mimicking a tall human is not the same thing -- their background, history, underlying genetics, and personality will be inherently different.

-Savak

[WarriorPoet]

I'e played a number of breeds that didn't half 'half-elf' in their sdesc or mdesc. However, I did make things clear to anyone who took a brief moment to read the mdesc that I did possess some strikingly elven looks: Delicate facial features, slanted/almond shaped eyes, slightly rounded points on their ears, etc etc.

I even wrote a breed who was only 1/4 elf, whose sdesc was just 'the soandso, somethingelse man'. The mdesc hinted at features that -might- give a -clue- that he had elven blood, but nothing definitive. I'll be damned if every idiot and their kank didn't jump me for a breed because assess -v said 'for his race'. That's as twinkish as writing no elven features at all in your desc, in my opinion.

So, I think it's okay for a person to try and disguise their elven features, but we need to keep things reasonable. Give hints. The problem here is that if you're going to try to blend in completely with one race or the other, some idiot is going to assess -v you, put that together with the -hints- of points atop ears that are -barely visible- through your mop, and suddenly your secret is out.

Moderation on both sides is key, here.

-WP