Crouded Observations

[Trenidor]

I've stumbled apon an idea that may improve the game somewhat

Idea?
When there's so many people in a room, (I'm thinking 10 PCs and NPCs total, or around that) instead of showing messages for when someone enters and leaves the room, all messages would be masked and unable to see by the people in the room.

Improvement?
In crouded taverns, people aren't going to notice weather or not someone walks in or not unless they are specifically looking for that. In the case that they are, they can always use the watch command in the direction they look, or use the look command whenever they think someone's entered, though not as efficent.
Also limits the ammount of spam in crouded zones

Comments?
It would help codedly with people who give little to no regard to people entering and leaving a room, and would stop them from abusing the system just because there's nothing stopping it. Something would have to be figured out for rangers and observant people, possibly raising the number of people in a room before loss of entering perception.
I think it would also be wise to include that when a large group is travelling (enough people to not notice them all) strays and stowaways could come in on the group without them observing it. The way one could stop that from happening, is to use the watch command when your with a large group. It may even boost the demand for scouting ahead when in a large group to avoid people walking up to your group without anyone noticing the new passenger.

Of course scan and look would still allow you to see the people, the only difference would be that unless you make a point to look out for someone, you won't find them in a busy croud.

[Forest Junkie]

Interesting idea. I like it.

IMO, it makes sense, at the very least. The more crowded a place, the less likely you may notice someone.

[Ghost]

Makes sense.

[Praetorian]

Instead of adjusting code that forces the viewability of spam for everyone, why not toggle existing commands to compensate?

Presently you can watch directions or watch none - perhaps watch off would eliminate all enter/leave messages even in the same room, demonstrating a focus of the individual on just the conversations/events surrounding them at that moment (basically would watch off when you are apathetic about new things going on, just focusing yourself on what you are doing).  Typing watch on when you are done would then restore the echo to from the mud regarding people moving about.

- Praetorian

[Bestatte]

It's an interesting idea, especially the toggle idea for watch. The only problem I can see with it, is if you're *sitting* in a bar, waiting for someone specific. You can't watch while you're sitting. But if you stand, you can't hold that table for your meeting.

[Larrath]

It's easy enough for anyone to notice a half-giant moving through, and this is also easy to code.

It's not nearly as easy to make sure that that two-headed human mutant, or the guy that's got a four cord-tall hairdo with a live jozhal sitting on it, will be noticed.
I also believe it will make people more used to the false notion that a tavern is nearly empty to there are only three PCs in it, and that it's impossibly crowd-choked when twelve PCs are sitting inside.  Most taverns probably have around twenty VNPCs in them at any given time if not more (think the Gaj and the Tooth), and more in the evenings and when it's storming.

It's also possible to argue that forcing people to rely on using 'look' constantly in order to see people moving in and out is going to damage their enjoyment of the game, and that there's no real reason for rangers to be able to spot people out of thick crowds (that's more of a pickpocket, burglar and assassin forte), but I'm not going to really elaborate on these things.
The thought itself isn't bad, but I'm against this idea.
Better too much information that one can ignore than letting information slip that one's PC would absolutely never ignore.

[moab]

I'm all for people using their judgement in these matters.
Code changes should be made where it will vastly improve the game (combat, mass combat, class / skill based characters) and let each character decide exactly how watchful they are.

[Incognito]

I am in complete agreement with Larrath. While the original idea is definitely worth merit, there are plenty of ways for folks who want to mask their comings and goings from taverns and other public places. For those who cant, or chose not to do so, it should be assumed that you the PC did notice them come in or leave....

Perhaps it was their bright red shirt, or the way the light bounced of his helmet, or just a passing glance from your table, which made you notice....

But, curtailing this information from PCs, would, like Larrath said, be completely out of proportion.

I play social roles quite often and I'd be completely demoralized if I was forced to use the "LOOK" command periodically, to see who came/left the tavern. It would certainly take away a lot of the fun from the game, effort-wise.

If there are players who wish to "not automatically be aware of who came/left" they are most welcome to RP so, and ignore every 2nd or 3rd PC who does so.

[Cuusardo]

Why not just ignore the comings and goings if you aren't watching the tavern entrance, say for example if you are sitting with your back to it?

What about the people who would take advantage of this, rather than using the sneak command in order to not to be noticed?  This is a surefire way to never be noticed entering a crowded tavern, when people should logically have some chance of noticing.

[moab]

Actually, on further thought - if you wanted to you could create a gag script on the client side that would mask the comings and goings for you and only let through those room echoes you wanted.

You would then (in the space of perhaps the fifteen minutes it might take you to learn how to do this) create the effect that you're asking the immortals to code for the entire mud (vastly more complex project, perhaps).

I know that some games (mushes for example) have sometimes used non-coded sneak and hide, trusting that players aren't going to let their character notice everything around them.

Certainly if MUSHers can do it, tough Armageddoners like us should be able to handle it.  Let's just ignore what we think our characters shouldn't be seeing.

[Tlaloc]

Idea?
When there's so many people in a room, (I'm thinking 10 PCs and NPCs total, or around that) instead of showing messages for when someone enters and leaves the room, all messages would be masked and unable to see by the people in the room.

Another few problems might be the following:

1) What happens to the person sititng in a booth beside the door? Do they magickally not get to notice people as they walk in and out?

2) What happens to the Templars guards, who've been ordered to watch the door to make sure someone doesn't leave (or doesn't arrive)?

3) What happens if someone stands on a table? Do they get to notice people as they enter and leave the door?

Ultimately, I think the VNPC problem is the biggest, though, followed by the playability factor for people. Just because there isn't a huge NPC/PC crowd, doesn't mean the place isn't full.

[Trenidor]

NPCs are supposed to represted the VNPC population fairly accurately I believe...maybe I didn't read that somewhere...

Anyway.

Templar's guards are -watching- the door.

That's why I later said if you need to, you can use the watch command, which will notice when someone walks into their direction.

Standing on the table on the other hand I don't think is even viable. Unless you are directly looking towards the door (use the watch command if you are) then I don't think you would even care who's walking in and out.

IIRC, watch says something to the effect of, "joe walks south, joe enters from the north" when they walk into the room you're in. The idea was that it would only eliminate the incoming and outgoing auto responses, as such it would be something like: "joe walks south" and would skip the joe enters from the north thing.

In the cases that the VNPCs aren't being represented via NPCs...yes, it's a problem, but we shouldn't not do something because of something that's not there that should be there.

[RunningMountain]

Make it a toggable command.  Only way to keep balance between realism and playability, just like the listen command.

-RM

[Agent_137 (2L2L)]

forcing this idea would produce too many issue. While it does make sense in most scenarios, it doesn't make sense in -all- of them. Sure, I'm not watching the door, but if my sergeant walks in, i'd likely catch that out of the corner of my eye. or i might not. That's up to me to decide. I'd hate it if the code did it for me.

Now, the toggle concept would be nice, though there are way too many ways around it for it to be any kind of priority.

As moab said, you could make it a gag in your client, and then create a toggle for the gag.

[Rhyden]

I'd be cool with that.

It would certainly get rid of those in taverns/bars who coincidentally are watching the doorway whenever anybody comes into a room.

[Dracul]

More work for imms. But...good idea.

Toggle for it.