Extend long descriptions?

[fearwig]

To use another poster's example:

The gritty, unshaven man lays on the side of the road, a pool of ale surrounding the spilled tankard by his head.

The gritty, unshaven man lays here in a large pool of spilt ale.


The first is longer than anything we could have, right now. The second is close to the current limit.

What do you think? Too spammy? Unnecessary?

To contaminate this with my own opinion, I'd rather see a few extra lines every now and then if it meant a richer, more descriptive environment would be the result. Vote with your heart, of course.

[Larrath]

The problem with very long ldescs is that they wrap, and that can look confusing and/or annoying.

Unfortunate as it is, I'd rather keep ldescs as they are.  It's usually possible to use a custom drop message to enhance the surroundings, though the very best solution would be to leave a tiny editable portion in players' main descriptions.

[Rhyden]

I'd rather keep ldescs as they are.  

[fearwig]

We know what you think, spoilsport!

[fearwig]

The problem with very long ldescs is that they wrap, and that can look confusing and/or annoying.

Unfortunate as it is, I'd rather keep ldescs as they are.  It's usually possible to use a custom drop message to enhance the surroundings, though the very best solution would be to leave a tiny editable portion in players' main descriptions.

Really? I mean, emotes wrap, says wrap, descriptions in general wrap--even some ldescs wrap already. It doesn't seem a big harm, to me. I get all moist just thinking about extended ldescs, myself. I can understand your point, Larrath, since it's a practical one, though I'm still baffled by a few twits who actually seem to dislike this idea for its actual merits. Sorry, a few? ONE twit. Just one! *whap*

Back on track, though--don't some lines indent when they wrap? And, on another matter, some ldescs already wrap, if the sdesc is sufficiently long (clothing, et cetera).

[Zacharai]

There have been innumerable posts on this topic over the years, the consensus has been that ldescs are a quick glance of the room as you're looking about.  Use emotes for adding in details.

[Larrath]

Inside A Roomy Room [NEDENNIS]
  This is a room.  There's a parapet here.  You have no idea what that is.
The oversized woman is here, holding up her right hand with her fingers splayed up to the merciless red sky, spaced a single inch apart.
The annoying little toddler is crawling around here, drool pooling down his chin and his hands, making a mess under his fingers that'll probably take five dwarves and a magicker just to clean up.
The twinky elf is here, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah The black-furred gortok is here, being nasty, scary and evil.
The black furred gortok is here, being nasty, scary and evil.
There's a pile of dung here.

In other words, it makes it OOCly difficult for a player to immediately recognize who's in the room, and the word wrap can even be used by twinks to try and make it seem like there's more people in there.

[fearwig]

When was the last time you actually saw more than one person in a room using an ldesc? More than two? Emotes are wonderful, but they simply don't do the same thing. Ldescs give location, ongoing activity--generally a good, descriptive focus of your character's current status, even as people walk in. They also don't draw blatant attention to themselves, thus reducing that kind of silly, minute spam in their own way. Does everyone want to know you're picking your nails or talking to a local whore? No! But if they look around, they'll see that you are.

I see your point, but in practice, they're not exactly overused--people simply don't cover silly, minute details of their activities.

That's all there is to say on it, though, I suppose, at least from me. Until someone gets me all excited again.

A good compromise, in my opinion, would be to work ~indicators into ldescs. *blink blink*

[moab]

I saw "make the ldescs longer!"  I'm always getting the message that mine are too long.

Let us also consider what makes lines wrap.  It seems that Ginka is forcing a certain screen-width on us. Is that correct?

Perhaps we should look at that?

[sarahjc]

They should be at least long enough to have a small sentence. I don't see it as being too hard to read.

We are a text based game.

[Bestatte]

The gritty, unshaven man lays on the side of the road, a pool of ale surrounding the spilled tankard by his head.

The gritty, unshaven man lays here in a large pool of spilt ale.

The first is longer than anything we could have, right now. The second is close to the current limit.

You could just tighten up the first:

The gritty, unshaven man lays near a spilled tankard and a pool of ale.

We already know he's laying on the side of the road, since he is obviously not laying in the middle of your bedroom. So "on the side of the road" is pretty unnessessary verbiage.

The "by his head" would be nice, since it would imply he got hit over the head with it, but again - it isn't necessary since you can always emote when someone walks in.

[Tamarin]

Nah.

Learn concision, people.

[moab]

Dudes!  We are playing a text game...why limit the text?

[Larrath]

Because it's a real-time game.
Sometimes you just need to see "a silt horror is here" instead of a fancy two-line long description that has you dead by the time you realize what's going on.

There are probably system memory concerns also attached to this, but that's just a guess.

What I personally do to get around the ldesc limitation issue is to create a button just above the zMUD command line with a yellow V on it.  I just count the amount of characters my sdesc lets me use for an ldesc, and put it there.  Being concise -is- important, but sometimes you actually need a longer ldesc.
"change ldesc is hanging precariously from the cliff side, his left arm shattered".
Sure, you can take the time and eventually wear it down to "change ldesc hangs precariously from the cliff, left arm shattered", which even then won't always work depending on your sdesc, but this will also interrupt the flow of various solo-rping actions and can really take someone out of character.

My official position about this is 'Meh'.  I don't want too-long ldescs that will wrap and I would like current ldescs to be a little longer.  The problem is that once you add five extra letters, you'll end up with fifty extra by next year.

[Delirium]

To all the examples above of why we need longer ldesc, I give this:

change ldesc hangs precariously from a ledge, left arm broken.
change ldesc stands by a table, hands clasped behind her back.
change ldesc sprawls in a puddle of ale, a broken mug nearby.
change ldesc is chatting it up with a half-dressed woman.
change ldesc stands in a corner, picking his nose.

Sure, sometimes you run a few words over and don't get to display exactly what you wanted, but being concise is good BECAUSE it is a text-based game, and the less you have to read to get to the meat and matter of what is happening, the better, IMHO.

Would you rather see this (and no I won't cop out by making them purposefully redundant):

Code Select Expand

    There is a long room description here, and it scrolls on for at least 15 lines. When the place is really busy, even if no ldescs are set, the room scrolls for well over a page when you walk in. There is a long room description here, and it scrolls on for at least 15 lines. When the place is really busy, even if no ldescs are set, the room scrolls for well over a page when you walk in. There is a long room description here, and it scrolls on for at least 15 lines. When the place is really busy, even if no ldescs are set, the room scrolls for well over a page when you walk in.
The tall skinny elf sits in a battered stool at the far end of the worn wooden bar, one boot propped up on the footrail and his arms folded behind his head.
The short stumpy dwarf stands stolidly in the midst of the eddying crowd, watching all that pass by with a beady-eyed glare.
The scrawny misfit halfbreed huddles at a small, rickety table in the southwest corner of the room, staring into a nearly empty mug of ale.
The chiseled musexmeplease human male is seated on a stool at the worn wooden bar, a pretty woman sitting on either knee and a shotglass of whisky clasped in his right hand.
The sultry black-clad busty woman is reclining on her side among the cushions of a plush leather couch, fanning herself with languid movements of her wrist.

Or this:

Code Select Expand

    There is a long room description here, and it scrolls on for at least 15 lines. When the place is really busy, even if no ldescs are set, the room scrolls for well over a page when you walk in. There is a long room description here, and it scrolls on for at least 15 lines. When the place is really busy, even if no ldescs are set, the room scrolls for well over a page when you walk in. There is a long room description here, and it scrolls on for at least 15 lines. When the place is really busy, even if no ldescs are set, the room scrolls for well over a page when you walk in.
The tall skinny elf slouches casually at the bar, boots propped up.
The short stumpy dwarf stands guard near the bar, beady eyes watchful.
The scrawny misfit halfbreed huddles at a small table, staring into a mug.
The chisled mudsexmeplease human male sits at the bar, a girl on each knee.
The sultry black-clad busty woman reclines on a couch, fanning herself.

Sure, one of them looks fancier, but it's at the cost of having to read through all of that screen scroll, which slows down what might be an otherwise flast-clipped and smoothly rolling scene.