Anon System for Commenting on Other Players

[witchman]

Would you like to see a voting method that would allow you to anon send mudmail to another play commenting on his roleplay?

Yes, but everytime it was used, said correspondence would have to be sent to an IMM, just to be sure people are being civil.

[krelin]

Good Lord no.  If people aren't being civil, let them take that to an imm on an individual basis.  Don't make some poor immortal read -everything-.

If you get a nasty comment, just wish up.  An immortal would easily be able to find out who sent it to you and act appropriately -after- that.

[Eternal]

The way this is done now is to email mud@ginka.armageddon.org with the message you'd like to send to the player of (insert sdesc/name/etc. here).  I find this to be the best system, because it allows:

1.  The imms to know that players are re-inforcing themselves in their play.
2.  The imms to know that players are going out of their way to do so.
3.  The prevention of flaming, which your system would make -very- easy.

The third point is the most cogent to me.  What's to prevent you from sending someone a nasty email along the lines of:  "Your roleplay sucks, what idiot immortal decided that you'd make a half-decent templar?"  Even if that person later addresses the issue with an immortal, all this will create is bad feelings throughout (for the initial player, the staff, and the person writing).

[krelin]

Except that your way makes it difficult enough to pass on feedback that people avoid doing it.  ("Hmmm, that was really cool...  I'll e-mail about it later."  *time passes*  "Who was it I was going to e-mail about?"  *time passes*).  AND it requires immortal assistance.  A coded route would -only- require immortal support in the event of an abuse (ie. a crude or hurtful statement in a comment), which could be easily traced and responded to.

[Eternal]

I fell that you partially made my point for me... people have to go out of their way to comment others... making it only done by those who truly have something to say.

I know if I got a comment from another player that said "YO, U R 733t!"... I'd probably just get annoyed.  I'm sure the imms would rather deal with passing along emails that are beneficial to the players, and that way learn who is doing well and impressing others... than deal with having to track down inconsiderate people who are just causing bad feelings all around.

My 2 'sid, but I've rarely heard anyone (Ness, maybe?  :wink:) say that they would rather deal with the breach than the rule.

[Rindan]

I have only ever sent in two comments on RP.  One was a blistering comment on how someone did a poor job on stealing from an unconscious person, and the other was praise for a character that I spent a long time whose RP seemed to grow by leaps and bounds in front of my eyes.  Both of the people I sent in e-mail regarding very much deserved my comments.  They were not quick, "Hey, you rule at blowing spice smoke out of your nostrils dude."  They were in-depth reviews of why I either liked or did not like their RP.  In both cases the imms were more then happy to pass along my comments because they were constructive and done in a non ass kissing or flaming manner.  This is the way I would like to see it stay.

As Ethereal as said, it is a good thing that you only get comments from other players when it is worth the time actually make a comment.  If the comment is so easy to forget and so not worth writing into e-mail, I find it doubtful that it will be anything other then a pat on the back or a quick thoughtless flame.  Keeping it in the realm of e-mail will insure that imms screen the comments to make sure that they are appropriate, and that the people who take the time to write comments are doing it for a worthwhile reason with worthwhile detail.

[gfair]

Not anonymous comments, but anonymous, invisible roleplay moderating.  Look at the Slashdot website forum as an example - moderating is done at six levels, and it takes a group to move a comment up to the best thread ranking, 5.

With a bit of modification, this process could be adapted to Arm.  Another player I know proposed a system to set a "karma eligibility" flag.  Together, these two systems would allow both player feedback, and create an On/Off flag for reviewing the roleplaying of characters.  

The anonymous moderation concept is a winner - the karma eligibility flag basically works after several characters live for a rolling average set amount of time.  Having a char live five days is pretty easy, but having three characters average out to 30 days each takes time and works well with the game - since life is so precious in Arm, players should follow that, and how long each char lives is indicative of how aggressive/conservative a person is.  30 days rolling average is only one of all the thousands of possibilities, so don't go blasting the idea just because the example is, in your opinion, outrageous.  The example is not the idea.

So after three chars make this 30 day average, a karma flag goes off, and the IMMs can then make a formal task of reviewing new karma-flagged players.  That doesn't automatically lead to the char getting karma, it just sets off a flag.  With the friend, he suggested you get L1 karma, I don't believe in auto-karma, so this is my version.

This creates an environment where each char becomes more important overall, and people place survival a couple pegs higher on the ladder, or so I would hope.


Combine anon moderation and a time-influenced karma system, and you get an environment where the player, and other players, do a lot of the work necessary to give useful information to IMMs.  I would hope this would lead to IMMs having a better system (which is a comment only on this idea, not the existing system which works fine) to identify players that play enjoyable characters that, in the opinion of the other players, either enrich or detract from the environment.  And the time flag further identifies those characters that can keep the enjoyable characters, and consistent RP, around either longer or shorter than others.

Who knows though.  I am not so sure the existing system needs improving, but if automation can reduce laborious work that can be turned into more creative work (again, a general comment, not a comment on Arm) then I am for it.

[Delirium]

Just a quick comment..

Living for a long time doesn't necessarily mean well-roleplayed...

And if someone's RP impresses me enough that I want to let them know, it takes just as much time to write up an email as it would an auto-send comment...

[Rindan]

Just a quick comment..

Living for a long time doesn't necessarily mean well-roleplayed...

And if someone's RP impresses me enough that I want to let them know, it takes just as much time to write up an email as it would an auto-send comment...

Two comments, first, writing an e-mail takes more time and effort then an auto-send comment.  The simple fact is that you are using e-mail and that you think twice before sending it in to make sure it is worth bothering someone.  Further, e-mail insures that someone reviews it and decides if the comment is worth passing on.  E-mail all around insures that people will make sure that the comment is more likely to be worthwhile, and that it gets screen.

As far as living a long time, yes living a long time does not make a good RPer. While I do not like the idea of auto-karma flags, I living a long time is a good indicator of potentially good RP.  The guy who can live for more then a few days is far more likely to have time to develop an interesting character then a guy who plows through a character once every week.  Further, if you are living longer, it probably is in indication that you are being more reasonable in your game play.  Shit certainly happens and lives are cut short despite realistic game play.  Some times people make decisions knowing that OOCly it probably is going to lead to death.  The difference is that when this happens constantly, it is probably an indication hat you might want to review how you play your characters.  It is one thing to occasionally get whacked by a stroke of bad luck that your could not or should not have avoided.  It is another to always end up dying in a foolish manner.

I am not ripping on people who go through characters quickly.  It happens.  I know that for many years I burned through a character a week and was happy to have one live for a month.  What I did find is that once I had a character that was more realistic about the value of his life and managed to live a long time the game got substantially more interesting and that my character took on a far more interesting and believable personality.  It is one thing to claim great or horrible deeds in a background, it is dramatically different to have actually played out such deeds and be able to point to the people who were with you for them.

If I were to give one piece of advice to people looking to squeeze more out of the game, it would be to try living for a long time and not make silly character flaws that insure they don't live longer then an IC year.  It might be IC for certain character to wander out into the desert and die due to being gang-banged by a dozen gith.  I would highly suggest going over your character concept next time such that he doesn't have a suicidal flaw.  There is a lot to the game waiting to be discovered.  Most of the things waiting to be discovered come through long life, not through suicidal rangers that dash out into the desert to explore some ruins.

[Delirium]

Generally, I agree with you, Rindan. Pardon my exhaustion, I should have taken more time to post. But it *doesn't* take that much more effort to send an email, thus we should keep it that way - for all the reasons stated above, i.e. Imm review, etc.

As for my long-lived character statement, generally, yes, they're going to be much more developed and sensible about their RP. However I've seen some characters live and die within days that made a huge impression on me. Also quite possible that the 50-day character Joebob's a twink that happens to know all the ins and outs of the game and uses/abuses them to the best of his ability while remaining barely IC.  :shrug:

Just being difficult, as usual.

[witchman]

ok,
How do ya'll feel about making an ooc comment in game about someone's roleplaying?

for example, recently I did this:

contact <person>
psi ooc: Your emotes rule, very well played.
break

Sometimes I'll whisper these things, but always I feel a little guilty for breaking into ooc.

[Anonymous]

ok,
How do ya'll feel about making an ooc comment in game about someone's roleplaying?

for example, recently I did this:

contact <person>
psi ooc: Your emotes rule, very well played.
break

Sometimes I'll whisper these things, but always I feel a little guilty for breaking into ooc.

I'm torn.  Someone did that to me once, and it made my day.

The flip-side is that its harder to be cruel to a player that was OOCly kind to you, at least for me.

If OOC compliments became the norm there is also the possibility people would do it to try to lull your *PC* into liking their *PC*.

I've gotten compliments from players emailed to me, and I've done the same back.

I think I'd rather see emailing the mud done.  Yes it'll be rarer, but it will be well-earned and filtered.

[Rindan]

ok,
How do ya'll feel about making an ooc comment in game about someone's roleplaying?

for example, recently I did this:

contact <person>
psi ooc: Your emotes rule, very well played.
break

Sometimes I'll whisper these things, but always I feel a little guilty for breaking into ooc.

I can't speak for others, and I am not sure there is a rule that covers it, but I would be annoyed.  Even if it didn't leave me feeling like someone was kissing my ass, I would find it distracting.  Personally, I think that OOC should be eliminated as much as possible.  Some times you need to go OOC, but it really should be limited.  I think telling someone they are doing a great job is best saved for e-mail.

[Delirium]

Yeah. Imagine a tense, nail-biting cliffhanger and you're eagerly watching the screen, trying to anticipate just what's going to happen next... emoting your sorry little ass off, watching your character trying to work their way out of a certain horrible fate...

A foreign presence contacts your mind.

The big, bulky man sends, "ooc d00d u r0x0r!!!11"

You sense a foreign presence withdraw from your mind.

You stare at the computer screen.

You sigh.

[Sanvean]

I've been seeing this and an accompanying thread grow by leaps and bounds over the past week. I don't want to go through and reply point by point, but I'd like to provide some notions of why this isn't in place already.

1) Karma should not be determined solely by players. One reason is that there are some players are amazing emoters, and indeed, who I've seen cited by other players on the discussion board as great players. However, they are either thoroughly untrustworthy OOCly (and have demonstrated this -repeatedly-) or they are pains in the collective ass of the staff: belligerant, unpleasant to deal with, and prone to flying off the handle with little to no provocation. I cannot think of any staff member on whom I would be willing to inflict overseeing one of these folks in a special role.

2) Again, karma should not be determined solely by players. Like it or not, there are various little cliques on the game, who keep each other acquainted with what characters they're running, make plans to play together, etc. While I don't object to this practice strenuously, coupled with a voting system, I think it would lead to unfairness.

3) I don't want to take a piece of code off Fourlands - we try to be innovative. If we put in something like this, I'd want it thoroughly specced out ahead of time, with various contigencies thought out and allowed for. Researching and writing something like this up is only halfway there though - once it's written up, then someone has to implement it. Unless you can find a coder willing to put the time into it, it's wasted effort, or so I've found.

4) People can and often do send in comments. These are invariably well thought out, provide concrete examples, etc. I make a note about it on both the praiser and praised's accounts. Sometimes these lead to karma adjustments as a result. In short, there is a system along these lines in place that seems to be working very well. The main quarrel seems to be that people want to make it easier to praise someone. I don't agree, because I think that one well-thought-out email tells me a lot more about someone's play than ten short comments along the lines of "This guy/gal plays well."

5) While I can only speak to my own experience, I would find it very jarring to have comentary on roleplay offered within game space (this is in reply to a specific suggestion). When I'm playing, I want to immerse myself as thoroughly as possible in the game, to the point where I can almost forget I'm playing it.

[Samoa]

ok,
How do ya'll feel about making an ooc comment in game about someone's roleplaying?

for example, recently I did this:

contact <person>
psi ooc: Your emotes rule, very well played.
break

Sometimes I'll whisper these things, but always I feel a little guilty for breaking into ooc.

Just to add to the flood here... if someone did something like that I would even be tempted to mail the account and ask them to inform the player that perhaps what they were doing would be better directed through email.  Not that I would be offended, or think they should be punished, but that I don't want to start some sort of ooc-fight about what's right and what isn't.  I would hate, *hate* receiving a comment like that, any kind of comment, through in-game means.  I've grown to really hate going ooc, for anything, and avoid it at all costs - I think this was inspired partly by Ihsahn, who happened to interact with like every single one of my characters until his robed ass kicked the bucket, and I only saw go ooc once, ever, to correct a typo for Kasic instead of Kasix.  It really added a lot to the 'mystery' of his character, and the frightful aura that every templar has.  If you have a comment, email it, and if you don't have the time to devote to emailing it then you obviously didn't mean it and are simply wasting time trying to come off as a nice guy.