Fighting

[Anonymous]

Just a few point I have been thinking about recently that aren't so very realistic in our wonderful world of Zalanthas.All of these happened to me quite a while back so no significant IC info.

1) I once fought a bahamet with a decent fighter (not good enough to kill it for sure) and I didn't hit it once! I mean when you are standing infornt of something twenty times your size, how can you miss? Even if it moved there would still be like thirty feet of solid bahamet in front of you!

2) I was fighting a guy who used bludgeoning weapons and he knoced me out without hitting my head or neck, it was like my body and my hands and i don't think that makes any sense.

3)Also, similar to the aforementioned #2, how can you die by getting nicked on your hands and legs countless times? Maybe being nicked is  harder than I think it is but...

So any thougths are welcome.

Thanks.

[Maybe42or54]

Just a few point I have been thinking about recently that aren't so very realistic in our wonderful world of Zalanthas.All of these happened to me quite a while back so no significant IC info.

1) I once fought a bahamet with a decent fighter (not good enough to kill it for sure) and I didn't hit it once! I mean when you are standing infornt of something twenty times your size, how can you miss? Even if it moved there would still be like thirty feet of solid bahamet in front of you!

2) I was fighting a guy who used bludgeoning weapons and he knoced me out without hitting my head or neck, it was like my body and my hands and i don't think that makes any sense.

3)Also, similar to the aforementioned #2, how can you die by getting nicked on your hands and legs countless times? Maybe being nicked is  harder than I think it is but...

So any thougths are welcome.

Thanks.

1. Because.. the code takes into account the thickass shell that the bastard is lugging around.

2. Good point. Always thought it was like that and a single hit to the head would K.O. Someone.

[Anonymous]

[/quote]Because.. the code takes into account the thickass shell that the bastard is lugging around.

Well shouldn't it just say your blow bounces of its tough skin or something at least?

[Anonymous]

Ahh... sorry bit of a screw up there.

[Marauder Moe]

3)Also, similar to the aforementioned #2, how can you die by getting nicked on your hands and legs countless times? Maybe being nicked is harder than I think it is but...

I don't think "nicked" in a combat situation is the same as a paper cut or slicing your thumb while cutting vegetables.  Its probably a pretty good-sized cut, something that would send most of us to the hospital to get stitches.  They will still hurt a lot and bleed a lot.  You'd die from bloodloss if you keps moving around with a bunch of cuts like this on you.  Of course, most Zalanthans (fighters, at least) are going to be more resistant to pain, wounds, and bloodloss than your average modern-day person.

[Agent_137]

Anonymous Kank, I agree. It's odd. It's not quite realisitc. Combat code here isn't the best I've seen. But . . .  this game is still worth it in spite of the combat code flaws.

So in the mean time, make up some IC excuses to explain away the oddities, and make liberal use of the "idea" command.

Idea Since it'd be really hard to miss this huge bahamet, is there anyway the "misses" could be changed to say "bounces off the shell."

idea Make it not possible to Knock out someone by just hitting their hands, and then make it easier for a knock out if you hit their head.


Of course, some ideas won't be good ones. Some will be great ones. Some will already be in place, and you just don't realize it.

Also, if you want a superior combat code, look on the projects page on the website and see if there's any ongoing project you can help with that has to do with combat code.

lastly, you could learn how to code diku, apply for an immortal position, an re-write the combat code. Fix the crime code while you're at it, too. Thanks! :mrgreen:

[SewerRat_inTheOpen]

1) I once fought a bahamet with a decent fighter (not good enough to kill it for sure) and I didn't hit it once! I mean when you are standing infornt of something twenty times your size, how can you miss? Even if it moved there would still be like thirty feet of solid bahamet in front of you!

Code can only do so much. It's either, miss, bounce, block, parry. And all of them probably dependable on different rolls. You miss the 'hit' roll and it passed its 'dodge' roll. I don't know how the d&d system works actually.

2) I was fighting a guy who used bludgeoning weapons and he knoced me out without hitting my head or neck, it was like my body and my hands and i don't think that makes any sense.

Maybe from the excruciating pain, though I doubt it's any less painful getting hit with a sword . Again. Limited combat code.

3)Also, similar to the aforementioned #2, how can you die by getting nicked on your hands and legs countless times? Maybe being nicked is harder than I think it is but...

Someone explained it up there. But this got me thinking, a nick is much harder than a normal small cut by a knife while you are doing vegetables, then everyone combative IG have ALOT of scars everywere. One solid slash probably gives you a big scar..

[Armaddict]

Try getting repeatedly clubbed in the ribs, over and over, with good, solid connection, each one either coming close to or succeeding in driving the breath out of your lungs.  Over and over and over again.

I bet you don't stay concious long, zalanthas humans actually last a decent while.  It's reflected pretty well in the code, I think.

[Jacques]

2) I was fighting a guy who used bludgeoning weapons and he knoced me out without hitting my head or neck, it was like my body and my hands and i don't think that makes any sense.

You obviously don't watch boxing, then. Knockouts from body shots happen all the time. For a great recent example, see the De La Hoya - Hopkins fight, where De La Hoya was dropped in round 9 by... a body shot. Boxers are trained that the head is the way to a quick knockout, but that steady work to the body and arms is the way to win a longer fight. I don't see your situation as unreasonable at all.

[JollyGreenGiant]

1) I generally assume that there's a lot more going on in combat than what the code describes.  If I'm fighting a bahamet, I'm not only trying to hit it, I'm also trying to avoid getting trampled, bitten, or otherwise injured.  A "miss" could mean anything from you out-and-out failing to hit the thing with your wild flailings, to having a perfectly controlled blow that you had to check at the last second to dive out of the way to avoid having your head bitten off.  That's part of the fun of emotes in combat code - make up a reason why you missed.  Be creative.

2) This has been covered, but I quite agree that body shots are a perfectly reasonable way to knock someone out.

3) If you watch a few episodes of any reasonably good crime drama (CSI, Law & Order), if you learn nothing else, you'll pick up on the fact that there are a lot of ways to die.  Legs have arteries, and when those get opened, it's a fast way to bleed out and die.  Other things factor come in - trauma, shock, you name it.  Zalanthans can be ten times tougher than the most impressive earthling, but life is still fragile.

[Ghost]

The questions are already answered in a way, but I will put my own take:

1) In a fight, you are not just standing and trading blows.  You are moving back and forth, taking a step sideways, circling..
When you are fighting with something huge, imagine how far it would take a step backward, or forward.  Watching the Lord of the Rings 1, the fight with the mountain troll helps a little.  You yourself step out of that things charge for your own safety, and when you want to land your blow, it is a couple steps forward, which is more than your reach..  It dodges really.

2) Armaddict put it well, and the boxing was a good example.

3) Actually, nicks dont kill you.  It is the final "horrendous damage" done after you are "crumpled to the ground" that kills you.  Nicks and slight cuts make you bleed, feel dizzy, and begin to make you lose your conciusness.  As was already put, you may lose enough blood by just nicks.  If we are considering you have only hit with nicks, then you must take approximately 20-30 or more cuts all around you.  Which takes a lot of time, that makes you bleed, and which is a lot of cuts all over your body.  And well.. When your hit point reaches to "0" (zero) you lose your concentration and fall and you die with the blow that comes after it.  Which indeed can kill you.

[Anonymous]

About the blood loss thing, if  you get into a fight and win or run away at 5 hp, you would be losing blood but, you can just sleep it off (with RPing and everything) but there isnt and coded death from losing to much blood. Something like losing 1 health every three or some minutes would make some sense taking into account all of the above opinions on blood loss.

[Ghost]

Actually, that was suggested to be hardcoded.  But due to playability issue it is not coded.  We are expected RP heavy injuries, like emoting that you are wrapping something around your wound and trying to stop bleeding.  So as long as you RP it, it is in effect.  If you dont, it can be going to the side of bad RP.

[Marauder Moe]

Actually I think bleeding like that was once coded, but removed.

[deinol]

I thought after a certain point you could get wounds that would bleed you down? I know most of the time you don't escape when you are at that point, but I remember having a character that was slowly losing hit points after a fight.

Then again, that was years ago RL, so it may have been changed since then.

I do wish there was a way to gain those cool scars you can get at character creation in-game. I know you can always wish up or e-mail the mud, but I hate to do that unless it's really important.

[Larrath]

The code is stupid enough as it is.  Adding a blood loss damage code would just make things worse - there are ways to take damage that won't involve bleeding, such as poisons, getting burned and probably a good number of spells.

There are many things in the world that the code cannot imitate or understand - this is why we need other players and other players need us.  Think and look past the bare code whenever you can.  As excellent as Armageddon is as an H&S game (and it is - it blows most MUDs straight out of the water), the roleplaying game is just better, and that's what we all want to focus on.

Also, it's possible to sleep off ANY damage.  One can, in theory, take a mekillot bite the wrist for 104 hp, get away with 1 hp left, sleep it off and play it like nothing ever happened.


About the questions, I'll just say it like this:
1) Missing means that you didn't damage the enemy for any number of reasons.  Maybe you hit them in a bad angle or with the flat of the blade, maybe they took countermeasures to your attack.  Don't take the combat messages literally; I remember being in an Allanaki arena once and having an NPC die with the blood-splattering message, and like half of the spectators played it off as some tidal wave of blood.  It was goofy.

2) Been answered enough.

3) Eventually you'll pass out from the pain, or loss of blood, or have a major blood vessel split, or you can play it off as not just having a minor bodypart constantly get hit.

[joyofdiscord]

I do wish there was a way to gain those cool scars you can get at character creation in-game. I know you can always wish up or e-mail the mud, but I hate to do that unless it's really important.

"change locdesc" in a quit room. (Or in the wilderness, as well, if a ranger.)

[Agent_137]

Blood loss code will be slapped on you by the immortals if you are twinking things out.

And, if you want to twink, it's SO much easier to do on other muds. Heh.

[Anonymous]

There is another thing that I find stupid about fighting. If you are fighting someone and you are using swords and they are unarmed and you parry thier attack with you sword, so wouldn't that cause some damage or loos of thier hand? I realise that you couls hit them wiht the flat of your blade but still, 5 tmes out of 10 you would hit them with the balde and they would get hurt. Maybe this was coded before I started playing and then removed but I still get kinda pissed about it cause in real life, you hit someone's hand with a sword, even if it doesnt cut it off they would be at a disadvantage.

[AaronG]

1) I once fought a bahamet with a decent fighter (not good enough to kill it for sure) and I didn't hit it once! I mean when you are standing infornt of something twenty times your size, how can you miss? Even if it moved there would still be like thirty feet of solid bahamet in front of you!

Concerning the game code, I think it would be acceptable to assume that had your character hit this bahamet, little damage would have been sustained. Not enough to be a coded 'hit'. To counter this, if a bahamet did swing it's mighty paw at you, wouldn't it kill you in one hit? Even though the code doesn't support K.O.s, these two very small flaws account for one another, which almost evens things out.

2) I was fighting a guy who used bludgeoning weapons and he knoced me out without hitting my head or neck, it was like my body and my hands and i don't think that makes any sense.

It is still possible to knock somebody out without hitting the head/neck areas specifically. Losing conciousness means not enough blood is being pumped for the brain to function properly. When hit, blood tends to be sent to the desired area that is hurt. With this in mind, it is still possible to lose conciousness if Zalanthian atonomy is anything similar to Earth's humans.

3)Also, similar to the aforementioned #2, how can you die by getting nicked on your hands and legs countless times? Maybe being nicked is  harder than I think it is but...

The obvious answer here is loss of blood. When the body loses something like 1/3 of the total amount of blood, you die.

[Agent_137]

trust me, unarmed is a HUGE disadvantage (as it should be) codedly.

If you aren't seeing this when you spar with whomever, that just means they are really bad ass. Which is also fair.

[Anonymous]

I meant even moreso after that, cause if you slashed them on thier hand they would most likely not use it to swing at you because it would cause too much pain, so then they would only get one hit.

[creeper386]

To the above poster, unarmed combat is already unrealistically horrible as it is. It doesn't need to be worse.


Creeper who really hates the total lack of any defense when fighting unarmed. I mean, most the time you are going to be running away from the attacker not trying to bludgeon him with bloody stubs.

[Zharal]

Sigh... Why do folks insist on trying to turn a great, adicitive, fun game into real life..  Sands, isn't that why we play, to get away from the realistics of the Rat Race.  Next thing you know we'll be wanting to force how unrealistic it is that magic is flowing through peoples bodies and why no one ever takes a pee.

[elvenchipmunk]

Something that I've always thought was kind of weird about the combat code, and halflings, is that: Why can a 3 and a half foot tall halfling with, say, a knife (foot-long blade), hit an elf's neck, who is six and a half feet tall?

Or, what's even more annoying, being knocked off your mount because a halfling hit you very hard on your neck or whatever. My point is I think it's unrealistic that halflings can get a good hit on someone who's mounted very easily, and should not be able to hit tall humanoid's necks (I'm not sure if the neck is actually coded to take more damage than other bodyparts, and if it isn't, that last part doesn't matter, but if it is coded, they shouldn't be able to hit high up).

My opinion atleast.

[Ghost]

The elf, to score a hit on the halfling is bending forward, not standing tall.

The mount is similar still.  To hit something that small, you bend forward as well.  And halflings are REALLY agile.. Agile enough to score a better timing perhaps, and hit you before you can, ruin all your balance ideas and fall down.  So that they can eat your brainz and bite your ankles.
Also, someone as agile as a halfling I assume, can climb onto a mount top, score a hit, make a tumble and land harmlessly back on his feet in a really quick way.  Just my imagination.

[joyofdiscord]

I think it's reasonable to imagine that when someone 'parries' a punch, it's because the unarmed guy had to pull a punch because the weapon was in the way, and he didn't want to lose a hand.  A dodge is a dodge, and him slicing my hand off due to an errant punch or otherwise is already nicely accounted for in "Swordguy slashes you very hard on the wrist."