Where have all the REAL Mercenaries gone?

[Angela Christine]

I had a character that got turned down by the Byn.  I even offered the Sarge twice the normal fee, and no dice.   :cry:  A 'rinther who didn't know her age, and apparently didn't look old enough (or at least that was his excuse).  So I offered to work in the kitchen, or pay 300 a year untill I DID look old enough.  Nope, they wouldn't have me.  Ok, my character was more interested in getting off the streets and safely out of sight until the heat died down from some other buisness rather than actually having a deep desire to become a mercenary, but still.  :twisted:

But the point is that there are people who the Byn rejects, people they don't want even as cannon fodder.  Including one poor bastard who shadowed the Sarge into the compound to prove that he wasn't a thief.   :shock:  That was a head scratcher.  The Byn has standards.


Angela Christine

[creeper386]

Some one pointed out a good one; the T'zai Byn's strict policy of neutrality. The Byn will never take a contract to go and torch the Red Sun Commons, for example. Half their company is located there!

Well, I seem to remember reading that the Byn participating in the wars between Tuluk and Allanak. They are nuetral, the same way Salarr is nuetral. They don't deal in the politics they just supply both sides.

Saying the Byn is nuetral so can't be hired for this or that against one of the city states is like saying Salarr can't sell to the city states if they play on using it against the other one.

A mercenary company who doesn't take advantage of war wouldn't probably make much money.


Creeper

[Agent_137]

http://mcel.pacificu.edu/as/students/koreavet/merc.html

however, it was during the Middle Ages (1100-1500) that mercenaries were used most often. During this period many rulers hired trained professional soldiers to protect their states.

Mercenaries were used mostly during desperate times of war, many times not even paid or treated well for their services.

http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=2978

There's more, but I don't have time to find it.

Suffice to say, take off your blinders, ERS, look at history. If all you're doing is throwing bodies at your enemies and using mercs as a buffer, you're missing a huge part of tactics, strategy, and common sense.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I agree with ERS on this one as well. *cough* Don't tell anyone I said that though.  :?

[jhunter]

That kank was me. Whoops.

[Trenidor]

Treindor wrote:

Pretty much the byn are too expencive, have a notority to have foul people in their midst, and they've been known to do some dirty deeds.

While this is certainly true, it doesn't say a lot for those few mercenaries who aren't even good enough for the Byn. Can you imagine that? Not good enough for the Byn? They'd have to be drunken, sadistic, semi-retarded animals willing to slit children's throats and ejaculate in their entrails for a tube of spice.
Of course, there are those few mercenaries that are too good for the Byn... but I'm pretty sure they'd be the exception, and not the rule.

Heh...you said it yourself....

Either they're too good for the byn...(i.e. They don't like the drunken, pick picketing, friend killing industry that the Byn often times brings.) For the times that I was a mercinary, either I played that they were too good for the terrors byn life brings, or I joined the byn...it was that simple.

Anyways, here's the key to marketing:

1. Need
2. Cost
3. Supply
4. advertising
5. usefulness/durability

They're pretty much in order, first there has to be need for the product...No need, no worry. No one is going to buy a product that isn't even going to do anything for them.
Second, if it's overly priced, people will find another way around it (unless you play monopoly)
Third, is there enough supply for the demand? If they want 1000 units of your product, you better have 1000 units if you want to be sucessful, although if they have enough need or the cost is low, it can be passed by.
Then, you need to advertise your product, you can't expect people to just come right up to you and ask if you have (electro magnetic fuel cells). In the case of the Byn, all the members need to be out there constantly advertising: "Hey. I need money to live, I get money from missions, we're in town for now ready to do anything you want so hire us."
And finnally, if there's competition, and it's a close match between both's 1-4, then you need to have a more durible product, lasts longer, runs faster, etc.
That is why Mr. Mercinary is picked over the byn.
1. He finds out that people have a need
2. He is really cheap
3. He can't really compete with the Byn as far as safety goes, but he'll do if your only going to do a few things.
4. He's at the right place at the right time to advertise what you need
5. He's able to be ready and good to go the moment you are, he's faster because the larger the group the slower you'll end up going, and if he's got a lot of experence under his belt, then the two recruits that the byn brings along isn't going to be as good as he is.

That applies to large groups as well.
It's like buying the 8 hotdogs instead of 10 for the 8 buns you bought.
And if you really need a few mercinaries, hire 2 or 3 of them to fill the gap in supply that a lone mercinary is missing.

What I think would contribute to this would be if NPCs ran away from large groups of people

Example:
A couple gith roam the road (la di da de de)
If there's 1 or two people, no worries, there's enough of them to stop a small company.
When you get 4 or more however, the gith get scared and run off. Making your byn more wanted because there won't even be confrentation if there's too many to fight.

I think People also need to understand that Mercinaries are just hired grunts.

You can make them do whatever you want, hunt for you, gather supplies, kill that stupid twink that keeps throwing darts at you outside the tavern then running off, you could even get them to moon the tribal people off the shield wall if you wanted.

[Smelly Kank]

Now those were good lieutenants back to back.

[marko]

People do not use the Byn because, often times, using the Byn is prohibative and difficult.

Making arrangements with the Byn can be like pulling teeth - even when you play in the role of a templar or a noble.  

Therefore, while the documentation states that the Byn is great, the reality is often very different.  Sometimes the Byn is great and sometimes the Byn just plain sucks and no one in their right mind would hire them.

Thus, if the Byn is currently not being hired it is because the Byn currently sucks.  Steps should be taken to improve the availability and the usefulness of the Byn if this is the case.

As per the why use independant mercs instead of the Byn - The Byn has a checkered history of being able to A) complete missions and B) maintain client confidentiality.  If you are not confident in the Byn's ability to keep a mission quiet that needs to be quiet - you will not hire them.  

Another good reason to use indies is that often times you will find an independant group to be A) more available for your play times and B) more motivated to complete the mission successfully (because they have something to prove perhaps).  

We play a game and as such many of the leadership positions in military and para-military organizations simply have no real world experience or even knowledge of strategies and tactics.  I've encountered numerous people like this in my time playing.  Does it really matter?  No.  Why?  Well, because it is a game.  If this reason doesn't fly then let us look to history and note all the BAD generals and military leaders.  Not everyone has to be a military guru to play in these roles.  Bad generals are allowed and are to be expected.  The amount of actual conflict that occurs per generation is very limited and thus you'd not find many seasoned leaders.  Of course... this does become a reason to call upon the Byn... but, again, they are often not available.

[Armaddict]

I back ERS on this as well.

Someone posted about the book written by Machiavelli, "The Prince", or something similar.  Take a look at what he writes on auxiliary units and mercenaries.  I think the -majority- of nobles and templars, at least in allanak, are going to carry close to the same thoughts.

[Whira's Luck]

I have to chime in on this, I just can't help myself.

Put whatever arguments you want on it and while they have some merit, in any direction, they're pretty much stripped away in light of the game and players which is simply: Clans with active, engaging leaders flourish and get things done. Clans with absent/poor leaders, leaders who may be on at odd times (no matter how good they are) or clans with no leaders tend to flounder. The Byn is no exception.

When the Byn is active, with motivated, engaging leaders who go out and complete their missions gung-ho style, who impress other clan leaders with their leadership abilities and have other players recommending them, the Byn gets a LOT of work. Period. No ifs ands or buts. I have been in the Byn several times when Byn mercenaries were amassing ridiculous amounts of money simply because they were getting all the contracts and accomplishing them, then getting more contracts because they did a good job.

I have also been in the Byn when it was stagnant, barely any contracts were run, and characters were lucky to scrape together a hundred sid for the year.

I've also seen times when contracts were ignored when they were being thrust at them (Byn) or screwed up. It happens and it really boils down to what I mentioned above, which is the measure of any clan. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy... good leaders attract more good players who become good leaders and bring the clan to life. When the clan slows, and people are playing elsewhere, then it may be difficult to get it motivated.

If independant mercenaries are getting jobs, it just usually means that the Byn isn't available to do them for whatever reason.

*plink plink*

[LoD Snarf]

Whom hires whom is generally a question of perception by the employer.

The T'zai-Byn is a business like any other, and the Sergeants (salesmen) on the forefront are constantly selling themselves.  My opinion is that the best salesman will get the job, whether they be independant or otherwise.  If a mercenary group doesn't have a diplomatic, available and approachable leader then you can bet on not getting many assignements.

The few times I've run a mercenary group (T'zai-Byn and Independant) I've had success in getting enough work to keep things moving.  You build a solid reputation and you get plenty of work.  It's not easy - so if you find that you're losing contracts - try harder.

-LoD