Damn! What you been smokin?!?

[halfhuman]

So, I was thinking that we should get a tobacco of some sort implimented into the game.  I think it would add some more .. culture, to Zalanthas. I've been to Red Storm, I've seen people casually smoking spice while they hang out at the tavern. I was thinking that it would be kewl to bring that sorta thing to the city-states!

It wouldn't have mind-bending affects, so it'd be legal. It could just be something that Kurac hybridized for sales solely in the city states where spice is illegal.  And it would give PC's more to work with while emoting than just pissing around with a mug of ale.

Who knows? Just a thought.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

I've actually been thinking about this too, recently. It'd be cool if something else in Zalanthas other than spice was smokeable. It'd just be another thing to work with to make your character seem more fleshed out, smoking ginka leaves for his rheumatism, or something. I'd prefer it wasn't tobacco, however, just because that feels too Earthish.

[Trenidor]

It would be cool to have...but only in Allanak where spice is banned to the average commoner.

And your addiction to it would have to be about the same as spice so that once they hook you on the cigarettes, they trick you into going for cuban cigars which are much more expencive.

But umm...since you said it on the GDB for all to read, I doubt that it'll end up anywhere.

[Sandstorm Phoenix]

I have seen PCs who smoke some of the herbs commonly used as medicinals.  I even bought some from this PC for the purpose of just having a smoke.  

Currently it isn't supported by the "make" or "smoke" commands (far as I know) like spice is, but that is where emotes come in.  I imagine if enough people were smoking the green-spotted purple leaves with emotes, it might convince there's a need for a code modification.

[Anonymous]

I've always been curious about the top example here:

This command allows those with the know-how, to craft raw materials into finished goods. Currently, rolling smokes is the only action possible using this command which does not require the appropriate crafting skill. In order to roll a cigarette properly, one needs a suitable type of paper, and a spice to be rolled into it.

This command is also used when pitching tents.

Syntax:
   make <object> <component 1> <component 2> ...

   Example:
   > make smoke vellum ginka
   > make tent

[My 2 sids]

I don't see how this is needed.

[Spoon]

Let's put aside the bad affects of smoking for a moment.

I don't think it's something that the gameworld badly needs, but it'd make some situations seem so much... cooler.

You could have a cigarette after mudsex.

You could pull off being extra bad-ass as a mercenary etc. It could be a class thing, so fancy house-guards don't do it, but scummy mercs do.

And loads of other hip situations.

Basically, I'd like something cheap and authentic. I don't know... something made from insects.... or dug-up volcanic ash.... Maybe you could smoke green honey, ginka fruits, sandcloth....

[SpyGuy]

This would most certainly be an awesome addition, especially if some naturally found herbs and the like could be smoked as well.  That and tying it into Kurac to make up for the lack of spice trade in nak would be cool.

I'd suggest less addictive than spice with very few benefits/drawbacks.  It'd basically be smoking cloves in my mind.

[Tamarin]

I don't think it should happen, and even if it did, I don't think it would make much of a difference and here's why:

1) There isn't really such a thing as microbiology or chemistry in the game.  As such, a new substance to smoke would just be perceived as another spice, regardless of its potency.

2) Anyone who thinks that the "mind altering effects of spice" is the only reason that Tek banned it is a fool.

3) If you are Zalanthan, you want to get fucked up, not be a social smoker.  The exception is nobles, but they can usually get away with it in allanak anyway.  So if the choice is between week-ass reefer, and say...black anakore, the choice is pretty clear.

[Spoon]

If it wasn't spice, then I don't think people would call it spice. I mean, if it was a plant, which it wouldn't have to be, then people would know that it wasn't gathered like spice is near the silt sea.

The more I think about the idea, the more I like it. Poor people on Zalanthas can't really drink socially, it's too expensive. The same with spice, really. I'm sure if something cheap to smoke casually was discovered a lot of commoners and the like would take it up. If something origional and authentic was brought into the game I think it would add to the creative value of Armageddon. So if it could be more than Zalanthans simply smoking weed then I'm up for it.

If a whole class thing was brought into it it'd add to the divide between common folk and the nobility. Different social past-times (yes, I know there are a lot already) keeps this from just people with alot of money, and people without.

[Rhyden]

Ya, if the Sea of Salt is really composed of silt, a great number of herbs, plants and trees could actually be planted there with large amounts of water seeing that silt is one of the best soils for irrigation.

*Shrug

[Agent_137]

Tamarin, disagree, agree, disagree.

1) Spice is spice. Smoking is not banned. Spice is. It isn't about microbiology. It's about what the feck it looks like and where it comes from.

2) Right.

3) Just because your chars only smoke to get fucked up doesn't mean everyone else does. I've met plenty that do it for the social aspect. In tuluk, it's very akin to drinking. If there's social drinking for the moderately wealthy (i.e. steady job) then there can be social smoking.

I say, start emoting smoking whatever you want in game. Start this trend ingame, it can be easily done with the tools available.

Wouldn't it be so much cooler to be the guy who starts a trend than have it just handed to us by immortals?

[halfhuman]

2) Anyone who thinks that the "mind altering effects of spice" is the only reason that Tek banned it is a fool.

Hey, not *all* of use were old enough to remember back when Tek originally banned it, pops.

It don't know why he banned it, but I still think it'd be a good idea.

Maybe some lowly Kurac grebber decided to smoke a plant that everyone else thought useless, and said. "MM. Minty!" I don't care how it gets implimented, because it would be so kewl.  Whether smoking a long slim cigarette in the Traders Inn while you talk about the scuzzy commoners, or smoking a short fat one while riding around the west on your trusty kank, Necrete while you turn your friends in for a ransom, then shoot them from the end of the noose....Or maybe that was Clint Eastwood.. You get my point!

Maybe extended smoking could slowly lower your stamina, hows that for a sweet plan?

[Tamarin]

You know, this is sounding more and more like a cigarette.  And I can assure you that there is no such thing as tobacco in the game.  If there is, the imm who imp'd it should be ashamed of himself.

Why not just change the code a bit so that you can roll the leaves that already exist in game into some sort of smoke?  I'm constantly finding discarded blue leaves all over the place...what about roots?  I'm sure those could be smoked as well.  No need to create a whole big new thing, imho.

[halfhuman]

Well, no one said it had to be tobacco per say. That's just what it'd be *like* by my thinking.  Call it "herb" call it "near-spice" call it what ever you like. I'm just saying it'd be cool.  I think it could be implimented to make certain situations more, cool/smooth/bad-ass depending on how you emote it.

Stepping out of a shadow with a stone-studded club laying easily over his shoulder, the filthy rinthi says in sirihish
"This ain't your lucky day, pal."

Taking one last long draw on his short, stubby cigar and flicking back the corners of his cloak to rest his hands easily by his sword hilts while he sharply twists his head to crack his neck, the bad-ass cool dude says in sirihish:
"All right. Let's go"

It would be kick ass to emote social smoking man.  Implimenting rolling up any ol leaf would be a good start, but just wouldn't be the same.

I think there should be a certain plant that's better smoking than anything else, that way if someone rolled up any ol thing, we could call the poor bastard's concoction a "Byn Special"  

It'd be a hard trend to start considering you'd have to go all the way to Red Storm or Luirs from Allanak, and put down lotsa sid for rolling papers/pipes, and then you'd be brutally beaten and thrown to the gortok for trying to bring it through the front gates.
If you succeeded getting it through, everyone at a bar'd think you were smoking spice and tell the templar, then he'd come and throw you in to the gortok just for having to walk a block for a falsly reported crime! No, I think to start the trend there'd definately have to be just a teenie little imm intervention.

[creeper386]

Personally just start using stuff in game.

If it starts getting coded, well there'd be different messages depending on what you smoked anyways. And ICly you could decide which ones are 'better'.

I honestly really don't much like the idea of cigarettes though. But then I'm not a big fan of rolling spice in paper either. Seems too ... earthy.

Although I think the idea of pipes came form several different places. Acctually rolling tobacco probably wasn't something widely done before it became main streamish.


Creeper

[Maybe42or54]

Smoke Mul-mix

[Angela Christine]

If it wasn't spice, then I don't think people would call it spice. I mean, if it was a plant, which it wouldn't have to be, then people would know that it wasn't gathered like spice is near the silt sea.

There may be more to spice than you think.  If you've ever played a spice hunter you might notice that PCs do not gather every known variety of spice.  Where do the other kinds come from?  Don't answer that, it was retorical.  I've been arrested for smuggling spice when I had NO spice anywhere on my person, some things that don't look like spice are spice (I assume that Kurac knows the secret of processing spice from unlikely ingredients).  So even if there was tabacco growing some place, chances are that Kurac would process it into a smokeable spice.



AC

[Maybe42or54]

The bane of all PCs.
The unknown spice.

[Delirium]

I highly doubt Kurac would let any smokable substance be discovered for very long at all without them getting their sandy paws on it, and subsequently dominating it and its trade.

[wizturbo]

I highly doubt Kurac would let any smokable substance be discovered for very long at all without them getting their sandy paws on it, and subsequently dominating it and its trade.

Yup.

If you can put it in a spice pipe and smoke it to any pleasing effect,  Kurac has likely already got it harvested, packaged, and ready to sell.

[Kalden]

I've been arrested for smuggling spice when I had NO spice anywhere on my person, some things that don't look like spice are spice

Doubtful. I've had the same thing happen, turned out to be a mistake... some items from Red Storm are wrongly flagged spice.

[Spoon]

You know, this is sounding more and more like a cigarette.  And I can assure you that there is no such thing as tobacco in the game.  If there is, the imm who imp'd it should be ashamed of himself.

Woooow

They coded alcohol and narcotics. Don't get me started on how abused a drug alcohol how damaging its affects are, which, in my opinion, far exceed those of smoking.

In my opinion, you can't really let things like morals intefere with rolplaying. I mean, christ, we have people being murdered in this game. Maybe you should all be ashamed of that?

[Bestatte]

I think Tamarin's issue with tobacco has little to do with morals. It has to do with realism.

Tobacco requires HUMIDITY to grow. I live in tobacco-growing country, believe it or not. Connecticut provides the outer leaf tobacco for many of the country's native cigar manufacturers.

In a harsh *desert* world where rainfall doesn't exist, it is literally impossible to grow tobacco. It requires not only humidity (which doesn't exist in Zalanthas), but also an even level of filtered sunlight (which is why rows of growing tobacco have a loose-weave cloth draped over poles above them). The forest can't provide that, since the trees would prevent the sunlight needed. The farms in the south can't provide that, because the sun is too harsh and would burn the leaves before they had a chance to mature.

Assuming there was a way to create a tobacco farm in the scrub, they'd need to have water spray fairly regularly during the growing season. Even if they could devise such a system, the cost of this water would drive the end user's price of tobacco up to monumental proportions. For a plant that offers very little benefit (assuming the illusionary relaxation benefit, the initial rush after the first inhale, the social "hanging out with a smoke and a drink" factor), I highly doubt there'd even be a market for it, given the necessary cost to bring a profit to the grower.

[Seeker]

Do not be so quick to limit your own power to emote and interact with the non-coded aspects of the world.

If your PC wants to smoke non-spice, then emote stripping the bark from your tree of preference, peeling off the stringy underbody of that bark, chopping or grinding it into a suitable consistency, drying it in the sun, and the carrying it around in a virtual pouch for your own smoking pleasure.

Give your PC that quirk, spend the time to harvest it regularily, and you are well on your way down the road to stained teeth, sour breath, and a delightful early morning hacking fit for your own RP pleasure.


Seeker

[Tamarin]

You know, this is sounding more and more like a cigarette.  And I can assure you that there is no such thing as tobacco in the game.  If there is, the imm who imp'd it should be ashamed of himself.

Woooow

They coded alcohol and narcotics. Don't get me started on how abused a drug alcohol how damaging its affects are, which, in my opinion, far exceed those of smoking.

In my opinion, you can't really let things like morals intefere with rolplaying. I mean, christ, we have people being murdered in this game. Maybe you should all be ashamed of that?

Dude, my issue isn't about morals.  Its that it would be an anachronism...like, I'd just add it to the list of things that I think shouldn't be in the game, along with Gygpsy peppers.

And Bestatte is right about the growing.

All I'm saying, is there are plenty of substances in game that people haven't even thought of smoking yet.  To illustrate my point, I shall refer to one of my idols, Chris Rock:

You could get rid of all the illegal drugs in the world.  You could get rid of all the herb, all the smoke, all the blow...people still wanna get high.  Guys will go in their basement and become scientists.  Like, "yo man, check this out.  If you get a baby bottle, right?  Fill it up with a little gasonline and a dead lima bean and suck it, you'll be fucked up!"

Seriously guys...go out there and find some leaf, root, herb, grub...anything, really, and start smoking it.  A lot of edible objects that you -don't- eat the whole thing have some sort of chemical contained in the rest.  Heck, look at apples.  If I'm not mistaken, I believe the seeds have trace amounts of arsenic or something of that nature.  So why not smoke some ginka seeds?  Think about it.

[Spoon]

Ah, yeah, I get you now.

Like I said earlier, I'm fine with anything as long as it is authentic and origional to Zalanthas. Having the word 'tobacco' anywhere would make me slap my forehead.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

I agree with Tamarin's later posts. I don't want tobbacco. I like the idea, however, of special Zalanthified smoking products. Leaves, seeds, beetle grindings. All are good ideas. I like coded support for my roleplay, even if it's just an echo that says I puff on my pipe some smoke goes into the air, but I guess it's a not a must-have. And while it's true that Kurac would probably try to get a monopoly on it, if it's something basic and easy to find, like the by-product of a common plant or animal, then they'll probably always have at least some competition from individual merchants, just because of its availability. Also, this doesn't have to be something that's newly invented (seeing as how inventions are rare in such a low-tech society). It could just be something that's been happening in the background, virtually, for a long time, and was only recently brought to the foreground of the PC world. There doesn't have to be some crazy IC justification like a mysterious group of traders introducing it, or a magickal mix-up in a Kuraci lab.
I remember a mercenary character I played with once, who's player would EMOTE about these reddish nettles that were basically chewing tobacco. He'd put them in his mouth, give lots of nasty EMOTEs about his red-stained teeth and saliva, then hack the stuff back up later. It did so much for his image as an ugly, nasty, gruff mercenary-type. It was fascinating to watch, interact with, and... well. I guess I'm just going to have to steal it.

[Marc]

Smoke pech grass.

I hear it f's with your head.

(the point of this post being I don't think anyone is going to say "No way man!  If you smoke that bimbal you ain't getting high!  It doesn't work like that!"  If you like the idea, make it happen.  Say your grandpappy used to do it.  If it catches on you might see some actual coded support.  Joy)

[halfhuman]

Like I've said two or three times now, I DON'T MEAN TOBACCO.  I, *alsowould be angered to see tobacco in Zalanthas. I just mean something like tobacco.

What FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit said about the nettles.  Or what Seeker said about the bark.  Is  the kinda think I wanted to see when I started this post.  I also like coded backup for my emotes.

I almost always play in Allanak, cause it is the bomb. In Allanak I have no access what-so-ever to rolling papers, or pipes. The closest place for me to find it would be Red Storm, or I would have to find someone that's selling it in the Rinth, which isn't easy at all. I've tried.  Also, if I ever tried to smoke it in a tavern, I'd likely get in sooo much trouble.

I think it's unlikely that a society would have mind altering substances to smoke, but not a regular old herb that only gives you black lungs, but not a buzz.  I think it would be so sweet to be able to casually have a smoke in your local Allanaki tavern, without having to be looked at funny, threatened, and possibly attacked by the other PC's/templarate.  I don't know Tektolnes's reasons for banning spice, and maybe they would also apply to any other kind of smoking.  Only the imms know his reasons, and I'm not asking that to change.

You can smoke spice in every other city except Allanak, so Kurac could make some mulla finding a way to bring smoking to Allanak. But also some mulla in other places.

A Byn mercenary who likes his spice could finally smoke something on duty without getting really high, and eventually fired or killed.  You wouldn't have to climb ass-deep in silt to get at it, so it would probably be less expensive than spice which could expand regular business to the poorer peoples of Zalanthas.  

I think it would add more depth, and make Zalanthas seem that much more realistic.

[Tamarin]

I don't think it should be anything like tobacco.

The only way it should be like tobacco is that you can light it on fire and breathe in the fumes.  That's it.  It should not contain a nicotine-like substance or effect....it should not turn your fingers yellow...Changing the name is not enough.

A rose is a rose is a rose, after all.

[Angela Christine]

I've been arrested for smuggling spice when I had NO spice anywhere on my person, some things that don't look like spice are spice

Doubtful. I've had the same thing happen, turned out to be a mistake... some items from Red Storm are wrongly flagged spice.

No, that isn't what I mean.  Hrm, I don't want to reveal ICly sensitive information, which makes it tough to explain what I do mean.  Suffice to say that may be things that the law thinks are spice, that can be smoked like spice, and that have the effects of spice, but that do not look like typical grains of spice and that are gathered far, far away from Sea of Silt.  The world is full of strange things.


AC

[Maybe42or54]

Some spice is refined from shit that doesn't look like spice in its current form. So I believe that the gate guards stop that too.

[halfhuman]

I didn't mean it'd have to be tobacco with a different name. I mean it would fit into society the way tobacco fits into our society.  Not like, everyone's trying to quite smoking, not that it's even addictive. It doesn't have to turn your teeth and fingers yellow.  It doesn't have to be a green leafy plant, or even a leaf for that matter.  Like I said in my last post, I like the idea of the treebark thing.  

All this post is about is that I think there needs to be something legal to smoke in Allanak, to add a bit to the culture.  I'm not saying that half the damn city should smoke it, but I think it should be there.

[WarriorPoet]

I've always been uncomfortable with 'virtual' objects. Aside from a baby or something that simply -has- to be emoted about, a virtual pouch of 'non-spice' seems like it could conveniently slip someone's mind.

For example: Militiaman Rychard, we'll call him Dyck, is at the tavern. He sees someone smoking a virtual stogey and decides the stench offends him. Well, being that he IS Militiaman Dick, and on good terms with a Templar, drops a hint about this new fad.

Well, it's obvious to the Templar that this is just some rinthi way to get around the spice ban, and decides to heckle some smoker. He thunders into the tavern and begins to search people. For whatever reason, be it simply forgetting to bring his virtual pouch into his emotes, or refraining to because, well, there's nothing there to prove he had a vpouch or had been smoking anything at all, he leaves it out of his emotes while the Templar looks him over. This means that for all the world, the pouch, nor the stuff in it or the smell from it, exists. No sniff echo, no pouch full of bark, nothing... *shrugs* Just a thought that this shouldn't be shrugged off as something to carelessly emote or not to emote, for that matter.

Chewing a handful of nettles or bark is one thing, smoking anything at all in a public place is quite another matter. Do you -really- think that Templar cares if you're smoking spice or dried kank shit? All that matters is your smoking -something-. If I was a Templar I would just kill you and all of your smoker friends, to contain something that was on the surface, just another thinly veiled attempt to get the Nakki population back onto the spice.

If I was somewhere besides Allanak and I really thought I -needed- a smoke that wasn't going to roast my nuts and spice me out, I think I would just buy some spice and emote diluting it with something, a virtual weed that I pick from an alley, or something, sawdust sound nasty to smoke but comes to mind, and then rolling a weaker doober. Like watering your wine.

-WP

[Maybe42or54]

No. It would be like hanging out with a northern templar with them in their robes in Allanak. You just don't want to be in that light.

[Tamarin]

Well...there are lots of coded substances in game.  Go out and get some, then start smoking it.  I really don't see what the problem is.  If you can get it popular enough, they'll code it.  Wouldn't you want to have it that way?  Single-handedly starting a new fad that sweeps over the game world?  Sounds good to me.

[Spoon]

I'm pretty sure no-one has actually said in their posts that they want tobacco imp'd. Just making the point before someone posts "Noooo, tobacco's a crap idea!"

[halfhuman]

Like I've said before. The reason I made this post is that I want something to smoke in Allanak, and you STILL can't smoke anything in Allanak! I'd need to have rolling papers or a pipe to smoke it, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't let me just waltz on through the west gate with a book of papers in my pocket.  That's like wanting to go through the metal detector with a bb gun.  It really can't kill anyone, but they still won't let you have it.

[joyofdiscord]

Like I've said before. The reason I made this post is that I want something to smoke in Allanak, and you STILL can't smoke anything in Allanak! I'd need to have rolling papers or a pipe to smoke it, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't let me just waltz on through the west gate with a book of papers in my pocket.  That's like wanting to go through the metal detector with a bb gun.  It really can't kill anyone, but they still won't let you have it.

Sounds pretty IC-appropriate to me.  The "IMMs" of real life aren't going to change airport security measures to allow BB guns just because we feel like toting them around.  The docs do say that possession of pipes is frowned upon in Allanak, leading me to believe that smoking doesn't have a place in its society.  Just because we as players, or even our characters, want to do something, doesn't mean the game world will allow us to do it without risk.  In order to manage this, we'd have to either change the history of Allanak so smoking paraphernalia was never frowned upon, and guess what, people were virtually smoking X herb all along since the beginning.  Or begin it IC with emotes, but be ready for the IC consequences, which is more than fair.

Should we make a mini-magicker class with harmless cantrips so people can cast in Tuluk?  No, and neither should we just change Allanak society willy-nilly so we can have a coded smoke.  If you want to smoke, go to one of the other cities in the game.  The cities aren't supposed to be all alike, letting us do whatever we feel like just for fun.  They have different societies, different customs, and different laws.  "I want something to smoke in Allanak" just doesn't cut it as a reason to change the entire society.

[Agent_137]

Smokin' in 'nak is so much more bad ass because it IS illegal.

[Dystopia]

(null)

[InsertCleverNameHere]

Screw tobbacco. We need an IG spice that is equivalent to RL meth. I think there might already be one, though, but I can't find a help file on the various types of spice :|.

I can't say which one is equivilant to meth, since I have absolutely no idea.. But I can say for once, when someone tells you to 'Find out IG', it might actually be a pleasant experience for your character (as opposed to likely death in other situations) if your talking about spice. Do some personal research, find out which one does what. Sniff it, smoke it, whatever.  :wink:

[Xamminy]

I do know which is roughly the equivalent of meth, but I won't say.

This is something you should find out in game.  Talk to people that might know what effects the different spices would have (*cough*cough*kuraci*cough*cough*) or by experimenting.

[Armaddict]

One thing:

Tamarin, stop being the one to -bring up- things about tobacco you don't want, please.  They aren't mentioning them, you are.  They said no tobacco, and you went right back to it.  It's just halting the discussion and making them argue with you.

I, personally, see nothing wrong with a 'harmless' substance being available to smoke, with the code.  That's just because I, like WP, am a little uncomfortable with the idea of multiple people dealing with virtual objects on their own.  It leaves a lot of ground for inconsistency.

And I know the meth spice too.  Me and Xamminy smoked it in my backyard.

[fearwig]

I've been arrested for smuggling spice when I had NO spice anywhere on my person, some things that don't look like spice are spice

Doubtful. I've had the same thing happen, turned out to be a mistake... some items from Red Storm are wrongly flagged spice.

No, that isn't what I mean.  Hrm, I don't want to reveal ICly sensitive information, which makes it tough to explain what I do mean.  Suffice to say that may be things that the law thinks are spice, that can be smoked like spice, and that have the effects of spice, but that do not look like typical grains of spice and that are gathered far, far away from Sea of Silt.  The world is full of strange things.


AC

You mean like in that Cheech and Chong movie where the drug lords are pressing manufactured pot to look like stereos and other plastic items?

Brilliant! "See my boots?" "Yeah?" "Spice." "Uh."