How to look at a whore. Good, evil or in the middle.

[Bestatte]

A pairing between a noble and a templar, or a noble and another noble, or a templar and another templar, would be officiated and considered a legal marriage primarily for political purposes. One would not take another as a concubine.

An "appropriate" noble's concubine would likely include some (or all) of the following:

Good grooming habits
Extreme patience in the face of adversity
Resiliancy
Be well-spoken, the type who can be "prim and proper" in public.
As educated as legally allowed to be for a commoner.
Capable of making quick decisions that would benefit her employer.
Not overly squeamish when confronted with unpleasant situations.
Capable of proving extreme levels of devotion and loyalty to her employer.
Capable of proving trustworthiness above and beyond the expectations of any other household member.
Ability to handle a budget, no matter how large or small.
Skill in the *art* of pleasure, rather than merely a few missing teeth to make it easier to give some rinth-rat a blow job.
Intelligence
Wit
Easy to look at - doesn't necessarily have to be a beauty, but I doubt a noble would pick a 3-eyed snake-haired woman with permanent pustules of putridity poking out of their pores to be their concubine.
Ability to be silent and still for hours on end.
Knowledgeable in the politics of the city.
Resourceful

Your average whore doesn't require most of that. There is no "average" concubine. They're ALL above average.

[wizturbo]

Who would be an 'appropriate' concubine, and who is out of question? I'm sure it depends on many factors, but generally speaking. What are the rules of society on this?

I'd go with the general rule, "If I put this person in a room full of nobles and templarate members, would they stick out like a sore thumb?  Or would they be able to shmooze and socialize like they belong there".  There would likely be some question of bloodline as well.  Being the son or daughter of a famous Military commander, a wealthy merchant house or a bastard noble would be viewed in a good light I would think.  Then there would also be the question of loyalty, which would be absolutely essential in my opinion, as any disloyalty would not only be a security risk but also risks involving the House in some scandal.

Basically, a concubine is as close to nobility as a commoner could get without Tektolnes himself declaring it so in Allanak :-)

[Naiona]

Akaramu is correct in her assumptions.  A 'good choice' for concubine would be someone that those in senior positions would trust to be completely loyal to the family in question. That is one reason that bastards are first choices.  

Members of merchant families -might- on a very rare occasion be accepted, but it would probably mean losing their status in their own family and likely require a lot of testing before the noble family would accept them. Such a choice would be looked upon carefully before gaining any approval. An employee of another noble house would likely be seen as a spy from day one and lose the noble in question a lot of 'face' within his or her own family. A trusted family servant might be a good choice if they spoke well and were known to move with ease in upper social circles.

Other nobles or templars would simply be lovers, and not known as concubines.  They would not be seen as the servant of the noble in question - and if they were, they would be humiliated.

It is likely that someone the family considers a poor choice as concubine might simply vanish from view. (read: Lady Fluffy's cousins have them discreetly killed so as to remove the threat without angering Lady Fluffy) Repeated bad choices could harm the noble in question's reputation so much that they find themselves quickly married off to someone considered otherwise too undesirable to gain a mate.

[Naiona]

Basically, a concubine is as close to nobility as a commoner could get without Tektolnes himself declaring it so in Allanak :-)

Well - close.  Bastards rank above concubines. Also, some merchant family members would be socially above concubines.  And unless a concubine has proven themselves over time, senior house servants may outrank them.  Also, the concubine's fortunes rise and fall with their noble, so they have a vested interest in acting as a spy/diplomat/servant whenever possible. The social rank table is here:

http://www.armageddon.org/general/ranktable.html

Again, I'll emphasize that sleeping with a noble doesn't make someone a concubine.  It just means they are sleeping with a noble.  Unless that distinction is made and accepted - a man or woman sleeping with a noble has no extra status for their effort beyond what wealth they might accrue.

[Larrath]

A concubine is an employee of the noble, or their slave.

Anyone that the noble just sleeps with is their lover, and I don't think there are any strict rules about this.  I can see a noble being upset that their aide slept with a noble of another house just as easily as I can see a noble being happy about that because it might better their relationships.

A noble or a templar will never be a concubine, unless they're actually stripped of their titles...and that's more or less only possible by really pissing off some senior noble or templar.


Having a polite, intelligent and 'good' concubine (on on aide-like level, making contacts and arranging meetings and all) can boost a noble's standing.  To be honest, a concubine isn't that much more than just a possibly more trusted aide.
Concubines get paid better, are dressed better, and taken care of better, but the job is essentially the same.  It just involves (more) sex.
Having a stupid, rude concubine, or possibly a non-standard one (one-eyed, or with a freakish mutation) can potentially damage the noble's standing.

Again, this is a lot like aides.  It may be possible for a noble to have a concubine as well as an aide, but assuming that the aide does all of the work, that concubine won't have as much effectual power as the other concubines.  A concubine like that would also get less formal exposure as the public face of the noble, and would thus have a lesser effect on them, for better or worse.

[Naiona]

A concubine is an employee of the noble, or their slave.

A slave with influence is something that rarely gets played out in game and I keep hoping that it will.  People forget that a slave can actually accrue a good amount of IC power in Armageddon and usually play them as either manual labor or guards.

A smart, loyal and trusted slave can rise to concubine (not to be confused with 'pleasure slave' - which is just a bed toy) in a noble house, just as they can rise to scribe (a non-noble that can legally read and write!) or even advisor.  Being a slave is not always a 'bad thing' and while it is unusual, it is not unheard of to see the highest slaves wearing jjewels and silks and serving in positions of power and influence.

[Sandstorm Phoenix]

While I agree with the distinctions and various shades between sextoy and sexual advisor, how much of this would a common chump on the city streets know?    Just to clear my position up, I think that the simpler, uneducated folk won't know to distinguish the various degrees of Whore.  I'm not even sure that they'd care much.  

Perhaps other nobles, templars, UberMerchants would know and be sure to react accordingly within the laws of social status.

But would everyone else?  What I wrote still makes sense to me, even with the subtle high-class distinctions illustrated.   They not be noble, they be property.   So the property whispers advice 'n hosts parties 'n such. . .  wouldn't know cause Joe Dungseller don't get invited, what's he know?

[Naiona]

But would everyone else?  What I wrote still makes sense to me, even with the subtle high-class distinctions illustrated.   They not be noble, they be property.   So the property whispers advice 'n hosts parties 'n such. . .  wouldn't know cause Joe Dungseller don't get invited, what's he know?

Joe Dungseller certainly might not know what happens at the higher levels of society and wouldn't be expected to know.  My only two comments would be these:

1) In this world, money = power.  Seeing anyone dressed in silks and jewels is going to be a signal that they have the cash or the access to the cash to bribe/buy/beg a hurting on you if you piss them off.  Now - if Joe Dungseller doesn't care about that - we are talking about another issue entirely.

2) I'd just reiterate that being property wouldn't neccesarily be looked down upon.  Slaves are in some (rare) cases powerful people and the ones owned by the nobility are among the small percentage of the population that know where their next meal is coming from.  You might value your freedom, but you wouldn't neccesarily look down upon someone else for wearing a collar (though you might do so depending on your particular PC background).  After all, you are heading home (if you have a home) smelling like kank-shit, while that cook-slave over there is heading to a meal and a bunk in a safe barracks somewhere.

[Agent_137]

I find slavery in armageddon to bear -great- similarity to that in the time of Rome, especially the republic.

It bears absolutely no similarity to that practiced in the new world.

Just something to keep in mind when any discussion of slavery crops up.

[Sandstorm Phoenix]

I don't think a whore/prostitute/concubine/addled spice-addict blowing for a grain should be looked down on.   I don't think they should be lifted up, exalted as a skilled and useful craftsman either.  I definitely disagree that they should be treated like half-nobility just because they're being used to pleasure the Lord.  Might as well exalt his cook.

I agree with what you've said, Naiona.  Where I am drawing a distinction is (I think) in line with the topic this thread has bred.  Don't hate the whore, but she shouldn't be treated any different than any other VIP's property.  I'd even go so far as to say it should be a non-issue from a commoner's standpoint because the whore wouldn't be interacting much with scum like us anyway.  Since I'm starting to repeat myself, I'll do the gentle readers here a favor and stop.  
(I still would pay in steel coins to see a PC playing the -other- end of the insta Playboy Mansion billionaire geisha spectrum.  Bring me Toofless, the one-eyed, raw-socketed gimpleg spice whore!)

[wizturbo]

(I still would pay in steel coins to see a PC playing the -other- end of the insta Playboy Mansion billionaire geisha spectrum.  Bring me Toofless, the one-eyed, raw-socketed gimpleg spice whore!)

Amen.

[Delirium]

I think I've already stated my opinion somewhere, but summed up it is:

Whether or not calling someone a whore ends up being an insult relies a lot on the context of the situation. It's a mild insult at best, but for comparison's sake, I see it like this: Whores are like T'zai Byn mercenaries. They're just doing a job and they may or may not be good at it, but most of them smell like kankshit and it's a rare one that ends up getting any real respect from somebody that matters. It's not everybody's slice of ginka, and so not everybody's going to love you and hug you because you're a street whore/mercenary/soldier/hunter/whatever. At the same time, it's not anything out of the ordinary, nor is it particularly degrading in any sense beyond it being a 'lower class' occupation (not including concubines in this statement).

(I still would pay in steel coins to see a PC playing the -other- end of the insta Playboy Mansion billionaire geisha spectrum.  Bring me Toofless, the one-eyed, raw-socketed gimpleg spice whore!)

Amen.

Your wish is my command.

Give me a while, though, I rather like the character I've got now.

[Adhira]

I played that whore once.

No one wanted her saggy breasts and straggly hair, unfortunately. Why would they when it's so easy to get it for free from much prettier folk.  :wink:

[Xamminy]

I played that whore once.

No one wanted her saggy breasts and straggly hair, unfortunately. Why would they when it's so easy to get it for free from much prettier folk.  :wink:

Yeah, Arm's full of sluts.  :twisted:

[My 2 sids]

I think, in general, prostitutes would fall under the same category as physical laborers:  the wood choppers, ditch diggers, miners, etc.  because after all, prostitution is a form of manual labor isn't it?  Sure, some will be more skilled than others, but this is not the same "dream job" as say... "I want to be a skillful artist or guardsman for a House." Even the Byn have had some training at their job, were as 99% of prostitutes would not have had any training.  I don't see how the high status of concubines can some how loft prostitution to some kind of pedestal.  To put it in earthly measure it's like trying to put the local Karaoke singer along side Cheri... the two just can't be compared.

[Agent_137]

Yea, but how many singers started on Karoke Wednesday night when they were younger?