Stealing from a guarded person

[Sammie]

Does the "guard" code look out for steals, as well as attacks? If I have someone guarding me, and someone tries to steal my bag, will my guard have a chance of catching them?

I've played a few characters who have been in situations where they've been guarded, at times with up to three people, and have still had someone slip right in and nick a sword or pack. That just seems -highly- improbable.

[Rindan]

Unless things have changed, guard does nothing to stop thieves.  The best a guard can do is make it really clear they are looking for that sort of thing and hopefully said thief will not make an unrealistic attempt.  That said, if a guard has just been standing there for hours, I personally think it is fair game.  If they are not going to bother to express what they are doing, no need to assume that they are doing their job well.  The real issue is how to treat NPC guards.  People with NPCs guards would be hard pressed to do both the job of playing a guard and a person worthy of being guarded at the same time.  In that case, if the ldesc says something about them guarding, then I would advise leaving them alone, especially if there is more then one.  Just because the code lets you do something, doesn't mean you should.

[Ghardoan]

I believe it does. I remember guarding a sleeping person, when all of a sudden, in walks an elf. The elf non-chalantly walks by, as elves often do, but the next thing I know, I am engaged in combat with him. After the encounter, I scrolled up to find some message stating something to the effect that I had spotted the thief's attempt to steal from my friend, and moved to intercept.

Then again, my memory is pretty hazy, and the above may in fact be a mere fabrication of my mind.

Ghardoan

[UnderSeven]

Personally I think the code needs to change in this case.  Guard skill versus steal skill and how many are guarding should be a factor.  Take  a noble who has like two guards.  It is concievable that these guards might be not letting anyone within an arms length of the noble.  If the code is currently as previous stated, this would not stop a twinkish pc from stealing from the noble.  Personally I feel the code should have some consideration to guards.  I mean, say you have a really important people with a pack of guards encircling him.  Just how in the hell are you supposed to steal from said person without someone noticing you encroach on the space between them and the guards where no one is standing?  Steal is one of the best and worst skills in the game.  It is hard to get up there and there are a lot of things pcs can do to make themselves virtually unrobbable, but I still feel guards should make it harder to steal from someone.  Reason? Lets say some can manage to reach into your belt and take your pouch.  While you'r guarded.. Then it's convieable they could have reached in there and just stabbed you instead. So if the thief can do one and not the other, yet both mean the thief getting in close depsite the guard being there, it seems to me they shouldn't be able to steal a pouch without the guard at least having a chance to notice and or stop them.

[Anonymous]

I've run far more noble/guarded types than I have thiefy types, but I don't think that guard skill should check against this.

I used to, but now I don't.

There are measures everyone takes against theft which severely limit the things a thief can take.  To further up the ante against them by throwing not one but two guard skill checks against them seems to come close to neurtering the steal skill in its application against PCs ripe for the picking.

NPC guards are not robots whose eyes are set on you.  Boredom sets in for guards and they might not notice someone slipping under a busy table nearby.

And they might just plain have no reason to suspect that the nicely built person who has bent over near their lord/lady to adjust their footwear is doing anything other than displaying their body in the hopes of getting the noble treatment that night.

Just like most PC guards are allowed to sit and chit chat/drink at another table, so to, I would imagine, would NPC guards.

Personally, I think guarded people have it well enough considering their guards never log off, never knock themselves out with the way, and never seem to turn on their employers.

[creeper386]

Acctually I think the code should check for steal attempts. And I highly doubt it'd neuter the use of steal, and even if it checks I'm sure skilled thieves still could accomplish the task. It isn't like EVERY PC has NPC guards... Personally from what I've seen only nobles have two NPC guards and hardly any non-nobles have one NPC guard.

It's not like NPC guards are just ALL over the place, and most guards, wouldn't just slack off, and the people important enough to have NPC guards, most likely also have the money to keep their attention. Sure... A guard wouldn't stand for a day or two with any slip... But the game goes by to quickly, and unless you have Armageddon IC day be an OOC day, it well always be going by pretty quickly.

Lets see, people with alot of person guards are very few, and most of them are important, and rich enough they would certainly keep their guards attention. If they get injured or their expensive ring gets stolen, it's the guards that are going to get punished, loosing your job, your life, or worse... Paying off the price of that ring... Is going to be plenty incentive along with the fact they are getting payed good for their job. I would think the NPC guards, or even the PC guards that stand right there all the time... Are LONG time employees... If not been working for the house most of their lives, they've been working for them along time, they've proven their loyalty and how good they work over and over and over again. Their is no reason why two guards can't stop that spindly little boy from approaching their charge.

And from a person that is constantly stolen from over the course of many different characters, I'm starting to think thieves have it almost TOO easiely. As long as they don't run into a PC templar normally they aren't killed unless they fight to escape. So it's alot safe then practicing hunting with NPC animals, or trying to kill someone that can try and kill you back...

Creeper

[Xanous]

I agree, there should be a chance for a guard to spot the thief.

It shouldn't be impossible to steal from someone with guards, but it also shouldn't be as easy as stealing for an unguarded person.  We can all come up with ways that guards could be distracted, but they aren't going to be distracted all the time.  Nor are they going to be super-vigilent all the time.  Roll the dice, your steal skill, the bodyguard's guard skill, random factor.  If you win he was distracted and if you lose he catches you.

[Delerak]

I think guarding should work for nearly all attacks as well.  Such as archery.  Nothing better then throwing yourself in the way of an arrow.  Or maybe a number to show how high your willing to go.  
guard noble 1 - you are a crappy guard
guard noble 2 - take attacks
guard noble 3 - take arrows, subdue attempts, attacks..

[Anonymous]

I don't know, maybe I'm coming back around on this.

I was going to post about how silly you all are to expect that there would be someone in reality who would be willing to just stand somewhere doing nothing.  And then I remembered the royal English guards... And also some Korean guards I saw who just stand all day watching a single room.

So yeah, alright, I'll grant you that there are SOME elite guards who would be able to do this.

So, not that it matters, I'd be willing to go along with this if it was top tier noble guards only.  Borsail, Oash and Valika.  Maybe Tor because of their whole academy shindig.

The rest are probably not going to l337 enough to do this.  Esp. merchant guards who are probably just going to spend their time getting drunk while their boss talks shop.

So, yeah, I think you people have a point, but I don't think *every* guard will be that dedicated.

[Xanous]

You don't need to be an uber elite guard in order to be able to stand around and do nothing but watch your employer.  It's not hard or demanding, you don't need years of training or any kind of fanatisism.   If standing around and guarding people while they sit in a tavern is your job then that is what you do.  It's probably very boring but there are worse jobs on Zalanthas.

[creeper386]

Yeah... And on top of that... Look at the rent a cops... They go through like a short little week schooling and people pay them to guard their valuables... More often then not they aren't too bad either.

More elite guards... People in the military tend to stand around alot at gates and the like... And watch each others back in bar brawls and all that stuff... And they aren't the elite of the elite... Lets see... English guard people... Gah... they just stand around look pretty for the public, NOW.. The Secret Services! They do go through alot of training but they also tend to get hit with bullets more often then the people they are guarded(Except it's ahrd to do taht when you jogging along beside the car... Thats been proven, you'd think they'd get the idea).

It takes little training to stand around doing nothing... And when in a harsh world like Armageddon, people would be doing a damn good job at an easy job like guarding a tavern sitting noble or merchant... That merchant gets beat up or stolen from... In the least, those guards loose their jobs... They probably would have troubles getting hired by other rich people... they no longer have money for food.

When people are in a harsh world but are in a good job they get payed well... They would do their job good... Even going out of their way to do it the best possible way they can do. Theres THOUSANDS of people out there that want THEIR job and could do their job. They have to prove they should be able to keep the job. And going to the bar and getting drunk certainly isn't the way to do that. And most the time when I see a PC guard... They don't go and get drunk... Sometimes they stand right there in place of an NPC guard... Sometimes they are sitting at the table, but you can still guard pretty well. And this is done, even though the PC probably should stand right there like an NPC, but there is a PERSON behind that NPC that might get alittle bored of that job, and this game is to have fun. Not to stand in place for three hours while the merchant talks shop, to follow them back to their house and then be left to do nothing.

I don't see how you'd say not EVERY guard would want to do a good job and keep that pay coming in. It seems you don't understand the whole mind set of starving and all that. And if you do... Well... I feel sorry for you because you didn't learn the right things from it.

Creeper

[Angela Christine]

I'm not sure that they are standing around all day.  The PCs and NPCs we see represent only a fraction of the population that is present at any moment.  Taverns are usually described as crowded, but have only a handful of NPCs (that stay there day and night for their entire lifetimes) and possibly a few PCs.  The little girl that sells fruit has been doing it all day and all night for more than 20 years, but she is still a little girl.   Most shops and buisnesses are open 24/7 . . . I guess that would be 9/11, and the same poor sap works the day shift and the night shift without ever taking a day off.  That is unlikely.  That fruit seller probably represents generations of fruit sellers, each one working as a fruit seller for only a year or two before moving on to more skilled and physically demanding labour as she gets older.  Each NPC shopkeeper represents 2 or 3 or possibly dozens of employees of the shop.  The handful of "regulars" at a tavern likely aren't meant to indicate that there are people who spend there entire lives sitting in the tavern (how could they afford to buy drinks if they never work?) but are indicitive of the sort of clientel that is comming and going all day long.

Likewise your NPC guard probably represents 2 or 3 guys that work in shifts (even if he has a unique name and description).  After a few hours or a few days of guarding your ass he uses the Way to relay his position, and someone comes to relieve him.

Just an opinion.

AC