The figure in the dusty blah blah wearing the bloodied blah

[Bestatte]

Thank you for changing that! It's easier on the eyes now to see just one or the other sdesc when people are wearing multiple items that cover the normal sdesc.

That is all.

[Dracul]

Oh, I have memories myself of being with the figure in a dark, hooded cloak, the figure in a dark, hooded cloak. And myself wearing a dark,hooded cloak.
...

[Bestatte]

Previously, it would be this:

The tall and obese figure wearing a dusty, green and pink striped sandcloth windcloak and the bloodied and tattered rhinocerous-embroidered orange sandcloth veil is standing here, bleeding profusely.

Now, it's this:

The tall and obese figure wearing a dusty, green and pink striped sandcloth windcloak is standing here, bleeding profusely.

MUCH better. Though I am not surprised that guy's bleeding profusely. I'd try to kill him too, if I saw him with such a stupid looking cloak.

[sarahjc]

Yes, much, much better..

[Tamarin]

What on god's green earth are you talking about?

[Bestatte]

Try this, Tamarin:

Wear a veil. Then put your hood up. Type "look me" and notice, you are no longer

The figure in the sandcloth cloak and the satin green veil.

That was how it was, until last week I think.

Now, you're just

The figure in the sandcloth cloak.

If you lower your hood, you will become:

The figure in the satin green veil.

until you remove the veil.

Then you'll be your usual sdesc self.

[Tamarin]

Oooh sexy.

[jhunter]

I personally think it sucks, it's only going to contribute to more x-ray vision twinks now that they can't obviously see how covered up someone is.
The longer sdesc never bothered me before because it served a purpose, with a glance I could tell someone was mostly covered up if they are wearing a facewrap and a hood up and all...


I'm not very happy with this change.  


Edited to add: See, before I would see an sdesc with a facial covering and a hood up and I would not look at them so that I didn't have their main desc (something too many people can't seem to resist doing as it is), now I have to look and give myself the information I don't want in order to even see if their face is covered along with the hood up.

Also, I think that there's still too many things OOCly against those that wish to hide their identities, now here's another one...it's a step in the -wrong- direction IMO.

[SewerRat_inTheOpen]

It's always bad to conceal your identity based on the trustworthiness of another player, can't be helped. Even wearing a bandana on the face should provide some concealment, not to mention a veil/mask/facewrap, but if the other player decides he has X-ray, all one can do is to ignore and walk away.

[jhunter]

It's always bad to conceal your identity based on the trustworthiness of another player, can't be helped.

What in the heck does this mean? That makes no sense whatsoever.

[SewerRat_inTheOpen]

Means the code doesn't allow features [ldesc] to be hidden, which means hidden faces [facewrapped/veiled..] have to depend on how honest the other players are with themselves, which is bad, but it can't be helped.

Since if A sees B, A will know who are B is by his ldesc, and probably find expose the figure in a purple cloak and purple veil, be it subconsciously or otherwise. He does know as the player.

[jhunter]

Means the code doesn't allow features [ldesc] to be hidden, which means hidden faces [facewrapped/veiled..] have to depend on how honest the other players are with themselves, which is bad, but it can't be helped.

Since if A sees B, A will know who are B is by his ldesc, and probably find expose the figure in a purple cloak and purple veil, be it subconsciously or otherwise. He does know as the player.

Yes it can, put that back the way it was and hide main desc when one is that covered. It's complete bullshit to go the opposite direction and make something that time and time again has proven that it doesn't work (more oftent than it does work) to be even more of an issue.

All it takes is -one- x-ray twink to completely destroy a character because they can't help but abuse the OOC knowledge.

It's not fair and I think it's something that's really broken about the game from a mechanical standpoint.

[Rhyden]

Much better. Although recently I came upon a helmet that covers every facial feature but a slit for the eyes. Thought it'd be neat to incorperate that into a sdesc...but not any more! Much better, thank you.

[Fnord]

It's cool how such a little tweak can make things much easier on the eyes. Props!

[SewerRat_inTheOpen]

Means the code doesn't allow features [ldesc] to be hidden, which means hidden faces [facewrapped/veiled..] have to depend on how honest the other players are with themselves, which is bad, but it can't be helped.

Since if A sees B, A will know who are B is by his ldesc, and probably find expose the figure in a purple cloak and purple veil, be it subconsciously or otherwise. He does know as the player.

Yes it can, put that back the way it was and hide main desc when one is that covered. It's complete bullshit to go the opposite direction and make something that time and time again has proven that it doesn't work (more oftent than it does work) to be even more of an issue.

All it takes is -one- x-ray twink to completely destroy a character because they can't help but abuse the OOC knowledge.

It's not fair and I think it's something that's really broken about the game from a mechanical standpoint.

I understand what you mean, for people will probably miss the veil of the cloaked figure and thinks his face is open or they might just ignore it, since the description is now only as cloaked figure.

But that doesn't change the fact that the twink will disregard the ldesc that scrolls down on his screen when he does -look figure- , even with the previous code.

It's either trust or some alternative like make a compulsory 2nd ldesc for when you are veiled/masked.

Much better. Although recently I came upon a helmet that covers every facial feature but a slit for the eyes. Thought it'd be neat to incorperate that into a sdesc...but not any more! Much better, thank you.

It still can, actually.  But it will not modify your sdesc at the same time as a hooded cloak item.

[Bogre]

I liked the old way. Seeing the great tall figure in the burnished camo-stealth cloak wearing a blue cloth veil makes sense if you can see the veil.

Just seeing The great tall figure in the burnished camo-stealth cloak won't give you all the information that you -should- be able to see.

At least, can we get a toggle for this? I personally love seeing huge ldescs and all the information a person would see from face value. (Instead of magically not noticed that concealing veil because people don't read equipment-lists fully).

[Xamminy]

(Instead of magically not noticed that concealing veil because people don't read equipment-lists fully).

Well, perhaps this is a reason to read the equipment lists fully?  There are some very interesting items out there that will never show up in an sdesc, no matter whether a hood is up or not.

An additional tip for the day:
Remember that you can "look man's vibrating" to see the vibrating thing that you see him wearing.   :wink:

[Dracul]

Yeah...I didn't want to comment because I was on the side. -and you see the veil-  for quick reference that helps.  But...I did play a character who wore a bandana on his face, hair and neck...and about throat.

So, you have a very good point Xammimy

We should all spam look more often. -and emote)

[Angela Christine]

You could always drop the hood, then you would be the veiled figure.  I'd like to see less cloak usage overall, and anyway most people WILL check to see what sort of cloak you are wearing to see your affiliation.

AC

[Delirium]

I can't help but feel the 'look spam' and the 'magickally knowing who a veiled and hooded person is' problem would be at least partially solved if we had a 'glance' command that showed equipment only (but only to the extent a normal 'look' would, not to the extent a 'peek' might). It wouldn't show the long description and it wouldn't echo.

So you could see what that raider was wearing but not look him in the face, and the raider could tell you that if you tried to get a good look at him, he'd stab you dead.

Then you have what he was wearing, how he spoke, and relative height and weight to work off of, which is pretty much all you would realistically have in a situation like that.

Also, 90% of the reason I ever look at anyone once I've met them a few times is to see what they're wearing and holding, which makes the echo seem like useless spam. I also feel guilty 'look'ing at hooded and veiled characters and simply ignore the ldesc as much as I can to focus on their equipment, which is the reason I look at them in the first place.

[Dracul]

I can't help but feel the 'look spam' and the 'magickally knowing who a veiled and hooded person is' problem would be at least partially solved if we had a 'glance' command that showed equipment only (but only to the extent a normal 'look' would, not to the extent a 'peek' might). It wouldn't show the long description and it wouldn't echo.

So you could see what that raider was wearing but not look him in the face, and the raider could tell you that if you tried to get a good look at him, he'd stab you dead.

Then you have what he was wearing, how he spoke, and relative height and weight to work off of, which is pretty much all you would realistically have in a situation like that.

Also, 90% of the reason I ever look at anyone once I've met them a few times is to see what they're wearing and holding, which makes the echo seem like useless spam. I also feel guilty 'look'ing at hooded and veiled characters and simply ignore the ldesc as much as I can to focus on their equipment, which is the reason I look at them in the first place.

I like.  Not only is it less spam.  but theres the RP of looking.  No ooc reason to look.   Cool. Very Cool.
Threaten.....Glance  We're on a role. Let's derail into the Code forum.

[Bogre]

I never said I don't read equipment lists. I just skim through them and don't meticulously stare at each line of text.

[Dracul]

Yeah, but scanning is all you need.  I typically snap my eyes to <about body> to look for some obvious clan colors. And I mean, a cloak is a big thing you would notice too...but flick across the <position>  Face...should be a big one.

[DejaVu]

I know this would take alot of coding, but I'd like to see ldescs changed.

When you create a character, and you start writing the ldesc you'll see:


What does your characters head look like?
What does your characters eyes look like?
What does your characters hair look like?


Or bunch it into
What does your characters head look like? (The whole head, not just shape or what ever)
What does your characters torso look like?
etc.

And each are numbered so you can arrange them however you like.


Then certain items designed to conceal the body will conceal those parts of the description that are relevant.

I.E. Veil will conceal face, sunslits will conceal eyes, etc.

[Agent_137]

I have to agree completely. Hopefully something like this can be listed as a project.

[Bestatte]

Oh blech, description templates. Nothing would disinterest me more.

Okay edited because I didn't see the numbered part. I STILL think it's not a very good idea. There are people who are terrific with metaphors and similes, and some people who are better at doing just plain sentences. Still others like a combo of both, while even others are lousy writers who need help constantly.

A template would force everyone to write in a similar manner. While it might help keep people from figuring out who plays who, it would eventually make everyone start to look exactly alike after time.

Check out muds that have this sort of thing, and you'll see what I mean.

[DejaVu]

The "template" wouldn't hinder anyone's writing ability.

Metaphors and similes would still refer to a single part of the body, or the whole body. If it applied to the whole character then it couldn't be edited out,  unless the whole body was hidden, which would just be invis/hide so no one without the proper skills would see them anyway. And because of the numbered arrangement they could organize it however they want.

Show me an example of how this would hinder someone's writing ability. Show me a sample description that would be affected by this, and I'll show you how it wouldn't.

It would take some getting used to in the beginning, but people would get the hang of it.

Maybe there could be four decisions before you write your mdesc.(Though I think only #1 and #4 would be necessary.)

1) Old school(Nothing edited out when appropriate gear is worn)
2) Eyes, nose, lips, hands, etc.
3) Main body parts.
4) Choose the body parts you want to describe from a list:

1.) Hair
2.) Head
3.) Nose
4.) Eyes
5.) Eyebrows
6.) Lips
7.) Cheeks
8.) Chin
9.) Neck
10.) Shoulders
11.) Arms
12.) Torso
13.) Hands
14.) Fingers
15.) Hips
16.) Waist
17.) Legs
18.) Feet
19.) Other(Additional features that wouldn't be edited out)


Select: 1, 2, 4, 7, 9, 11, 12, 17, 19

You'd then be prompted to describe each thing seperately, then later on, prompted on the order you wish them to appear.

[Maybe42or54]

1.) Hair
2.) Head
3.) Nose
4.) Eyes
5.) Eyebrows
6.) Lips
8.) Chin
9.) Neck
10.) Shoulders
11.) Arms
12.) Torso
13.) Hands
15.) Waist
17.) Legs
18.) Feet
19.) Other(Additional features that wouldn't be edited out)


Select: 1,2,4, 12, and two others of your choice.

Editted to what I would do.

[Bestatte]

No, no, a thousand times no. I'm not interested in changing my entire style of writing just to fit a game's code. That's one of the biggest attractions to my coming to Arm in the first place.

A generic, typical description of -mine- using my style of writing:

Dusty-blue eyes flank a broad nose, her high cheekbones angling down toward full lips and a clefted chin.

One sentence describing all the main features on her face.

Now you're telling me I'd have to have a seperate sentence for each part of her face, JUST so her mouth and nostrils can be covered by a veil? Fuggedaboudit. Keep it the way it is, and reinforce the "appropriate" roleplay of people who wear veils and the people who observe them.


It's been covered in the past. Several times, in several threads. I came up with one idea, augmenting someone else's idea, to have *complete* secondary descriptions for when you're wearing a head-covering that obscures the face. Some people liked the idea, most didn't. Now you're suggesting even more limitations to descriptions, by requiring that everyone include each "descriptive part" of their body in a seperate sentence just on the offchance that this particular body part might be covered at some point. I don't like this at all.

[Rhyden]

Fuggedaboudit.

[DejaVu]

Went ahead and nabbed a sample description from the site for a demonstration.

the platinum haired elf

1.) Hair
2.) Head
3.) Nose
4.) Eyes
5.) Eyebrows
6.) Lips
7.) Cheeks
8.) Chin
9.) Neck
10.) Shoulders
11.) Arms
12.) Torso
13.) Hands
14.) Fingers
15.) Hips
16.) Waist
17.) Legs
18.) Feet
19.) Ears added because i forgot
20.) Other(Additional features that wouldn't be edited out)


Select: 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 19, 20


Please describe the hair: Long hair, the color of platinum, sweeps back sharply from the forehead of this elven male. The hair cascades down his back, falling nearly to his thin waist in a straight mass of shining white.
~

Please describe the nose: a long, straight nose, that shows just a smattering of freckles on it's surface.
~

Please describe the eyes:His two almond shaped, brown eyes are neatly accentuated by the point of his widow's peak,
~

Please describe the eyebrows: which swoops down nearly to his ivory colored, thin eyebrows.
~

Please describe the lips: Full pouting lips rest under
~

Please describe the ears: Two long, angular ears rear up out of the mass of white hair on the elf's head, once again contrasting with the white of his hair, and complementing the darkness of the rest of his body.
~

Please describe the first misc. feature: All of the white of his hair stands out starkly against the mahogany canvas of his skin, which appears to be naturally dark, but harshly burned by the rays of Suk-Krath into an even deeper shade of brown.
~

What order would you like these features to appear in?
1.)Hair
2.)Nose
3.)Eyes
4.)Eyebrows
5.)Lips
6.)Ears
7.)Other
> 1, 3, 4, 5, 2, 6, 7

Long hair, the color of platinum, sweeps back sharply from the forehead of this elven male. The hair cascades down his back, falling nearly to his thin waist in a straight mass of shining white. His two almond shaped, brown eyes are neatly accentuated by the point of his widow's peak, which swoops down nearly to his ivory colored, thin eyebrows. Full pouting lips rest under a long, straight nose, that shows just a smattering of freckles on it's surface. Two long, angular ears rear up out of the mass of white hair on the elf's head, once again contrasting with the white of his hair, and complementing the darkness of the rest of his body. All of the white of his hair stands out starkly against the mahogany canvas of his skin, which appears to be naturally dark, but harshly burned by the rays of Suk-Krath into an even deeper shade of brown.
Is this correct?  No

What order would you like them to appear in?
> 1, 3, 4, 7, 5, 2, 6

Long hair, the color of platinum, sweeps back sharply from the forehead of this elven male. The hair cascades down his back, falling nearly to his thin waist in a straight mass of shining white. His two almond shaped, brown eyes are neatly accentuated by the point of his widow's peak, which swoops down nearly to his ivory colored, thin eyebrows. All of the white of his hair stands out starkly against the mahogany canvas of his skin, which appears to be naturally dark, but harshly burned by the rays of Suk-Krath into an even deeper shade of brown. Full, pouting lips rest under a long, straight nose, that shows just a smattering of freckles on its surface. Two long, angular ears rear up out of the mass of white hair on the elf's head, once again contrasting with the white of his hair, and complementing the darkness of the rest of his body.
Is this correct? Yes

EDIT: Point made, Bestatte. It would be too difficult to properly implement and please the majority of the player-base.

[Dracul]

Hmm.

I was against the idea, although I saw it's 'usefulness'  now Im warming up though to that last post.

[Xamminy]

I like it.

[Moofassa]

Yeah, that looks pretty cool.

[Northlander]

These look like fun apps to approve.

[Agent_137]

Now you're telling me I'd have to have a seperate sentence for each part of her face, JUST so her mouth and nostrils can be covered by a veil?

Why does each number have to be a sentence? Why can't it be a phrase?

Ideally, you should be able to incorporate any desc into this template with minor to no modifications.

[joyofdiscord]

If one of those phrases, let's say eyes, is mixed in with a sentence describing other parts of the face, when you stick the sunslits on, the face sentence has a high probability of becoming nonsense unless you spend a lot of time double-checking every possible outfit to make sure it results in a sensible desc.  Me, I like the idea at heart, I really do, but I just don't see it ever being possible.  In fact, I had thought of this before, and thought it was an original idea.  The ideal, of course, is for people to try to roleplay realistically what their chars are seeing.  I think striving for that ideal is the best we're going to be able to manage.

[Bestatte]

Here's why. We'll use the description already written a few posts above, using the method suggested by the writer.

Long hair, the color of platinum, sweeps back sharply from the forehead of this elven male. The hair cascades down his back, falling nearly to his thin waist in a straight mass of shining white. His two almond shaped, brown eyes are neatly accentuated by the point of his widow's peak, which swoops down nearly to his ivory colored, thin eyebrows. All of the white of his hair stands out starkly against the mahogany canvas of his skin, which appears to be naturally dark, but harshly burned by the rays of Suk-Krath into an even deeper shade of brown. Full, pouting lips rest under a long, straight nose, that shows just a smattering of freckles on its surface. Two long, angular ears rear up out of the mass of white hair on the elf's head, once again contrasting with the white of his hair, and complementing the darkness of the rest of his body.

Now this elf decides to wear a belt. That goes around his waist. So the second sentence becomes:

The hair cascades down his back, falling nearly to his His two almond shaped, brown eyes..blahblahblah.

Now he puts a pair of sunslits on, which cover only his eyes and nose, leaving his lips exposed. The sentence in the middle becomes:

Full, pouting lips rest under Two long, angular ears rear up...blahblahblah

That's why it won't work as a phrase. Unless as joyofdiscord says, you have an IMM spend hours upon hours going through each application to make sure it doesn't conflict with every possible body-covering combination first.