Re: Sitting/Standing

[Xamminy]

InsertCleverNameHere...if you're asking for your own benefit, why not actually 'sit' and then change your ldesc to show you at a virtual table?  This would make a LOT more sense to me.

[Seeker]

Perhaps the question is about players who are changing their ldesc. in a room to "sits at a small, private table," but remain codedly standing to use the sheer awesomeness that is the watch command.  They get the benefit of watch, but lose the benefits of regaining stamina from resting more comfortably or having intimate conversations at their virtual table.

I have seen this more frequently, and I am not sure whether to think it is foul or not.  I mean, I partially base my PC's reaction on whether I think that someone in a room could be watching me or not by looking into it to see who is standing, which is also thinking of code effects.

Worth discussion.


Seeker

[flurry]

I was thinking the same thing about the watch command when I saw ICNH's post.   There are also a few skills that can't be used while seated but can while standing.   So I think that if your ldesc says you're seated, you should be codedly seated.

[Anonymous]

There are also a few skills that can't be used while seated but can while standing.

I think that's a good point.  If Nessalin or Tenebrius or Moregenes or whomever it was that did the watch code wanted it to work while you were sitting I'm sure they would have done that.  So being 'seated' ICly but standing codewise and using the watch command seems a little questionable to me.

[Jacques]

It seems like an abuse of the code to me, albeit a minor one. You are creating a situation where your portrayal of your character does not match what you are doing within the code of the game, and are doing so for your own beneft. If it wasn't possible to sit, then fine - use your ldesc as a workaround. Use the code whenever possible, and make sure your actions match what the code says is going on.

I used to see a lot of this in another game I played. Thieves would come in, emote sitting but not actually do it, and change their ldescs. They would then steal from everyone, figuring they wouldn't get caught because people would believe they were sitting and use that OOC knowledge to assume it wasn't them. I started looking at everyone, and PKilling anyone whose position didn't match their desc. Didn't fix the problem, but made me feel a lot better.  (Fortunately, I had a character with an IC reason to want to kill just about everyone) :twisted:

[Anonymous]

This is a derailment, but - speaking of the watch command.... why can't you 'watch' while you're seated?

Sa'alam,

Dirr

[Bestatte]

My guess as to why:

The room shows that there's "a table in the back." You sit there, while watch is running. A templar comes in with 3 burly h-g guards. How, exactly, can you watch the room outside the bar while you're sitting all the way in the back of the tavern, with all those people blocking your view?

That's an extreme example, but when those guards shift their feet, move left to right, turn sideways, step forward, etc. etc. etc. - it's likely that the only people who will have a chance to see past them during all this, are people who are standing up.

[jhunter]

Yeah, but in just about every other situation you should be able to watch while seated. Pretty much anywhere outdoors almost for certain. a high perch somewhere. I think that it should be change so that you can watch while seated, but certain rooms should be flagged so that you cannot use the watch command in them, like taverns and busy, enclosed places.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, but in just about every other situation you should be able to watch while seated. Pretty much anywhere outdoors almost for certain. a high perch somewhere. I think that it should be change so that you can watch while seated, but certain rooms should be flagged so that you cannot use the watch command in them, like taverns and busy, enclosed places.

Would this requrie a lot of unnecessary work?

[Bestatte]

Depends on the nature of DIKU, probably. If there's a way to write something like:

if [character_watch]=on;
andif [room_flag]=indoors;

then [character_sit] = force[character_watch]=off;
endif;

Then it's probably doable without much more effort than that.

If rooms don't have actual flags indicating that they're indoors, and each room has to be toggled individually, then it would probably be a headache and not worth looking into.

[Morgenes]

I'm not going to comment on the idea of allowing watching while sitting in outdoors rooms, I point out that this doesn't solve the fundamental issue which is people abusing changing long descriptions.  People will still do this indoors where the true issue lies.  All this will really allow is the people who are outside and sitting and watching to change their long description.

Changing your long description to reflect that you are doing something other than you are doing code-wise is an abuse of the code, and not why the ability to change long descriptions added to the code.    

So, in short, as said by a previous poster, there is a reason why you aren't allowed to sit and watch.  Abusing the change long description code to get around this is a great way to show how little regard you have for the game and our intentions, and a great way to loose karma.

[joyofdiscord]

If rooms don't have actual flags indicating that they're indoors, and each room has to be toggled individually, then it would probably be a headache and not worth looking into.

>weather
You have no feeling about the weather indoors.
>

So, yeah, I'm pretty sure there are indoor/outdoor flags.  Last I remember, indoor flags were included in stock Diku.  Or, more accurately, I think there were some dozen "terrain types" and "indoors" was one of them.  I would be very surprised to see that Arm didn't have them, considering how many ways the code does use that information.

[Akaramu]

We had an incident a while back where someone had their ldesc set to show them lying on a cot asleep while actually they were standing up and wide awake. This seems abusive to me.

I'm glad someone already started a thread, so I dont have to. I feel a very strong urge to comment on this.

I have forgotten to actually sit / rest / sleep while changing my ldesc to being lying on a cot a bunch of times myself. I wasnt trying to be twinkish or abuse the code, I simply had to rush afk, emoted settling down, changed ldesc, and being half afk already forgot that I could actually use the rest or sleep code. Pretty much every time I roleplay lying around asleep I need to go afk. Otherwise I'd rather do something active with my PC awake.

I'm sure this could happen to many other newer players as well, with absolutely no harm / abuse intended. I hope the staff arent too harsh on us. It would seem harsh to me to get a comment about abusive behaviour with the ldesc if the player simply rushed afk and forgot.

Also, dear staff...

Please, please, please if you see something like this that bothers you, let the player know. Sometimes I get the impression that negative comments are being added without the player (often a newbie) even realizing what they did wrong or why. Not everyone checks their account comments, I dont because I'm sure seeing them would shock me.  :wink:

In all my time on Arm I got two messages from staff about things that were not realistic. I probably have a LOT more negative comments than that, and I still might not know that I'm abusing code when I do this and that.

[JollyGreenGiant]

Haha.  I do that all the time with other things.

> emote stands up and walks off.
> east
Hadn't you better get on your feet first?

Me: DOH.

> emote tosses ~object to ~person and grins
(10 minutes pass)
Person OOCly: Um... were you going to hand me that?

Me: DOH.

> emote drains the contents of ~waterskin and wipes the sheen of liquid from his lips after.
> drink skin
You are completely full!

Me: DOH.

[Morgenes]

Cases such as the one describe would certainly be understood.   However, blatantly abusing it by using the 'watch' command or something similar, will be noted.

And, when we do note things like that we will generally give a comment in your mudmail about it before we post it on your character.

[Akaramu]

And, when we do note things like that we will generally give a comment in your mudmail about it before we post it on your character.

Good to know. Also, I would love to see more 'visible' comments in general, good or bad. I'm sure this would help many players. I realize some imms are more busy than others, but if it could be done more often at all, that would be swell.

[sarahjc]

Haha.  I do that all the time with other things.

> emote stands up and walks off.
> east
Hadn't you better get on your feet first?

Me: DOH.

> emote tosses ~object to ~person and grins
(10 minutes pass)
Person OOCly: Um... were you going to hand me that?

Me: DOH.

> emote drains the contents of ~waterskin and wipes the sheen of liquid from his lips after.
> drink skin
You are completely full!

Me: DOH.

Hahahahahaha...

I do all that all the time. At least one instance a day.

To comment on the rest, unless you are pretending to sleep so that you can see other people come in and listen to what they are saying  (and are RP'ing that accordingly..) You should always use the sleep command.. It's not even a hard command, you should also use gone if you are going to step away, this way when people try to interact with you, they will know what the deal is... It's this easy.

Emote lies down and curls up on her side closing her eyes
sleep
gone, BRB

At the very minimum it's only two extra words, sleep and gone.

If you forget to do this once or twice I wouldn't think to much about it, if it is a consistent thing, than I would not be surprised if it ended up on your account notes.

Also I am pretty use that Staff always inform you when you are getting a negative note on your account. Criticism is not very effective if you never hear about it.

[Anonymous]

Also I am pretty use that Staff always inform you when you are getting a negative note on your account. Criticism is not very effective if you never hear about it.

I don't believe this is true.  I recall a number of people who wrote in for their account notes saw some negative comments they had never read before.

And it makes sense to me, if I was a staffer I probably wouldn't write/confront people about the minor things but I would probably leave a note on their account in case they ended up doing other things that all added together showed a history of poor play.

I just can't imagine that emailing someone everytime they spam craft or commit some other minor faux pax would be a very rewarding experience for everyone involved.

But I'm not on staff and am only going by what I read in a similar thread before that I think had some imm comments to the effect of not always emailing players.

[Xamminy]

To comment on the rest, unless you are pretending to sleep so that you can see other people come in and listen to what they are saying  (and are RP'ing that accordingly..) You should always use the sleep command.. It's not even a hard command, you should also use gone if you are going to step away, this way when people try to interact with you, they will know what the deal is... It's this easy.

Emote lies down and curls up on her side closing her eyes
sleep
gone, BRB

You can't use gone when sleeping, I'm pretty sure.  I can't check right now, for obvious reason, however.

[Delirium]

You can't.

[InsertCleverNameHere]

Hadn't read the gdb in a few days, didn't realize anyone directly replied to my question. It wasn't a question of me, it was a question of seeing someone enter an indoor room, not emote sitting down nor codedly sitting, but the next look at the room showed their ldesc as sitting. Then a minute later, person walks out of room without bothering to emote standing. This was just once incident, maybe they had to afk. But I've seen another PC who does this habitually, with look tables not showing said person seated anywhere in this room with tables abound and mostly empty, yet ldesc shows them as sitting. It seemed like some sort of abuse to me, in fact irritated me quite a bit, but I was unclear on the opinion if this -was- actual abuse, or just someone (me) being too picky over stuff.

[Dracul]

Totally abuse.

As I've lost a character because he was sitting. (there were other factors, but if he was standing, weapons weilded, he wouldve lived)

[Cenghiz]

Err... With the new code change, I assume pickpocketing from someone at the bar after typing 'stand bar' would be suitable and not code abuse...  I believe most of my characters -whether pickpocket or not- would rather stand leaning against the bar instead of sitting on those uncomfortable stools anyway. Great improvement for the pickpocket chars.

[Nidhogg]

New players may not be aware that one -can- sit via the code.

[flurry]

Wouldn't 'stand bar' mean you were either standing on the bar or on a barstool, though?   I don't know, I haven't seen the echo...maybe it says that you stand 'at' or 'near' the bar.

[Morgenes]

Here's the echo:

Code Select Expand

> stand bar
You stand at a long, scarred bar of agafari wood.

You can not stand 'on' something code-wise.

[Marauder Moe]

so 'stand at bar' or 'stand at table' means you're standing nearby (and listening to the conversation) but not having a seat?  Does it take up one of the chairs?  Can half-giants do it?

[Morgenes]

so 'stand at bar' or 'stand at table' means you're standing nearby (and listening to the conversation) but not having a seat?

It means you are standing right next to the table, in place of one of the chairs.

Does it take up one of the chairs?

It takes up one of the slots that could be used for chairs.  So a space at a bar or around a table can be used either for chairs or for people standing, but not both.  However, you can have both chairs & people standing around a table or at a bar.

Can half-giants do it?

yes

[Xamminy]

New players may not be aware that one -can- sit via the code.

Um...I'm inclined to believe that anyone that can 'change ldesc is sitting at the puce table.' should know that they can actually use the 'sit' command.

[Nidhogg]

I played something once where they had the ldesc thing going on but not seats. Not sure what it was. Mostly, I just play Arm.

[WarriorPoet]

I've played at a few other muds that had 'change ldesc', same syntax and everything, but they did -not- have coded seating. *shrugs* I've been guilty of changing ldesc, emoting pulling out the chair and slumping into it, and the promptly forgetting to 'sit table'. I wouldn't immediately jump to the conclusion that "OMFG! They're fucking CHEATING!" Some people just forget.

[Maybe42or54]

Doesn't ldesc reset when you "Sit"?

I do it too, so I have stopped changing ldesc and emoting before I sit.

[Xamminy]

Heh.  Okay, let me rephrase, I'd HOPE that anyone that can change ldesc would have figured out sitting.

Yes, when you change position, your ldesc changes.  That is why you change position and then change ldesc.