That is over 35 characters; try again:

[Anonymous]

Greetings, everyone.. I would like to know if it would be possible to slightly extend the maximum numbers of characters in a short desc?

I like to make my short descs slightly original, but whatever I try, it always seems to be over 35 characters, and I'm left with choosing a more "generic" short desc that I'm sure people have seen a hundred times before.. Things like short, tall, muscular, bald are all good, but how many times have you seen them before?

I tried earlier the "insert color"-skinned, "insert color"-eyed young man, but it was too long, I removed the young, and it was still too long..

Then I tried the golden wild-haired, blue-eyed man.. No go.. Actually I didn't want to use blue-eyed in the first place, because how many blue-eyed PCs do you see daily?

My first choice was something like cerulean-eyed, or azure-eyed.. But that takes too much spaces and would leave me with a much shorter first description, like tall, or short, or simply "wild-haired", I also like to add young man, or middle-aged man depending on the age of my characters..

Would it be possible to extend the limit slightly, say to 40 characters or so?

Thanks.

the bronze-skinned, cerulean-eyed man is too long.. Which was not even my first choice, but something I would have went with.. Still too long, tho.

[Maybe42or54]

Change Curelean to Azure.
Instead of using big words use words people don't understand.
People like me understand.
Something like The bronzed, Azure-eyed man.

[Anonymous]

Cerulean was just an example..

Why azure, because it's shorter and you don't understand cerulean? .. If everyone uses azure, then it just becomes the new blue.. With a little more spaces, I could have the bronze-skinned, sapphire-eyed man as well, or the bronze-skinned, lazuline-eyed man..

Anyway, my point is that with a little extra spaces, we'd have alot more original short descs, and what's wrong with that?

If you can get a little extra education with Arm, it's all good I'd say

And dictionary.com is a click away.

[ashyom]

People have always asked for a longer sdesc.  Staff have always said no; if we say yes to 40, then people will eventually ask for 42..then 45.  "Give them an inch, they'll take a mile."  Unfortunate, I know.  I run into this problem occasionally, and like many players, have been frustrated by this.  It takes patience and fiddling to find a good combo that is 35 chars or less.

Look at it as a challenge to your writing skills.  Making a good sdesc is a fine art.  Sometimes a plain one is required.  Sometimes a fancy one with unusual words is required.  The challenge is to make your needs fit within the limit.  Just know that you're not alone in this.
-Ashyom

[mansa]

Did you know...?

The length of your sdesc also affects the length of your ldesc.  If you have a super long sdesc, you cannot have a super long ldesc.  You're stuck.

If you have a short sdesc, you can explain yourself more vividly with a long ldesc.

http://www.armageddon.org/cgi-bin/help_index/show_help?ldesc

Now, you know!

[Maybe42or54]

In my Real Life.
Green eyes are green. (That includes all shades of green)
Blue are blue, brown are brown.
Black are black.
Pm me if you'd like and I can give you shorter words from a thesaures.

[Maybe42or54]

I could have the bronze-skinned, sapphire-eyed man as well, or the bronze-skinned, lazuline-eyed man..

Anyway, my point is that with a little extra spaces, we'd have alot more original short descs, and what's wrong with that?

Sapphire- Azure, cobalt, indigo
Lazul- BLUE
Bronzed- tanned, brown

I don't want to use a dictionary for everyone's sdesc just so they can feel special.
Instead of having a unique sdesc, focus on your character.
The only unique sdescs are the ones that actually belong in the world, it seems.

[Angela Christine]

You can drop the comma, I hate commas in sdescs.  You don't need "the adjective, adjective noun".  Try just "the adjective noun".

The burly man.
The black-haired youth.
The voloptuous brunette.
The dainty man.

Sure, it isn't as descriptive, but sdescs aren't all that descriptive anyway.  Short and sweet.


AC

[Rhyden]

You can drop the comma, I hate commas in sdescs.  You don't need "the adjective, adjective noun".  Try just "the adjective noun".

The burly man.
The black-haired youth.
The voloptuous brunette.
The dainty man.

Sure, it isn't as descriptive, but sdescs aren't all that descriptive anyway.  Short and sweet.


AC

Why not just have your sdesc "the noun"?

The man.

That way, you don't even need to explain why you're 'the man'.  

[EvilRoeSlade]

Then I tried the golden wild-haired, blue-eyed man.. No go.. Actually I didn't want to use blue-eyed in the first place, because how many blue-eyed PCs do you see daily?

The golden wild-haired man.

Eyes don't belong in your sdesc.

And as an aside, as a helper I'm willing to give advice on anyone's sdesc as well as help them fit it within the 35 character limit.

But be warned, as a psychopath I will then hunt down your character and kill it.  Because the voices in my head tell me to destroy everything I create.

[My 2 sids]

Eyes don't belong in your sdesc.

Anything that people would notice first, belongs in the sdesc.

People have always asked for a longer sdesc. Staff have always said no; if we say yes to 40, then people will eventually ask for 42..then 45. "Give them an inch, they'll take a mile."

I bet not.  Given the amount of letters in most words, I would bet many people run over the # of spaces needed by just one or three letters.  Eventually, most words wouldn't require over 40 characters and so they're would not be the big push to go above a 40 character limit.  Most newpaper writting classes have all the statistics on exactly the limit of characters most words take up.

As for comma usage, many sdesc do require commas.  When people use above one or two adjs in a sdesc they need commas to help identify which word the adj is actually modifing.  

BTW, I have a question.  Do we have to type "The" when putting in a sdesc (thus taking up 4 spaces) or will it atomaticly add The?

[Tlaloc]

You have to supply 'the'.

Why not just have your sdesc "the noun"?

The man.

That way, you don't even need to explain why you're 'the man'.

You are more than welcome to apply for a character that is just a noun...but I hope you take rejection well.

[Lazloth]

BTW, I have a question.  Do we have to type "The" when putting in a sdesc (thus taking up 4 spaces) or will it atomaticly add The?

Yawl do hav tuh include thuh 'the'.

[SanityAssassin]

I am against expanding the character limit.

Many people confuse verbosity with good writing.  In truth, excessive verbosity often leads to vague, weak writing.  It also smacks of pretension.  Try to avoid using ten dollar words when a tent cent one suffices.  Prune needless words.

Check out Strunk & White's timeless Elements of Style for a guide to clear and succinct writing.

[Incognito]

I have personally felt many, many times that the 35 character limit is too low.

Consider a half-giant PC....

Without any frills, he already has to use up 15 characters:
The initial "THE" plus one space and the one more space before the "HALF-GIANT".

That leaves them only 20 characters to describe themselves.

[AK]

I totally agree.. Why must we limit ourselves to 35 characters only because some don't want to have too many characters to read (with the ldesc) or because some don't understand a few words here and there?

I mean, I'm reading whole descriptions of rooms every time I move from room to room (Most of them are larger than 5 lines each) What if someone has a larger short desc and is ldesc ends up being a line and a half because of his short desc is slightly more than 35? (I'd be more than happy with 40, like someone said, my short descs always seems to end up in the 35-40 range, for some strange reason..) If you don't want to read them, then you don't have to.. But why is it that each time someone comes up with a suggestion, it seems that most answers are relatively selfish and negative.. A trend I seem to be noticing alot here.

Why no more than 35 characters? Because I don't like "," in other player's sdesc.

Why no more than 35 characters? Because I don't like eyes' description in someone's sdesc.

Why no more than 35 characters? Because blue is blue for me and anything else is being pretentious.

C'mon people.. Stop being so selfish in your answers Changing it from 35 to 40 wouldn't take more than a few minutes of the coder's time.

But how many black-haired man and dark-skinned young woman have you seen since you've started playing?


How can cerulean-eyed (to take the first example) be vague, weak-writing compared to blue-eyed?

How can the dark-skinned, cerulean-eyed young man be more vague and weak writing than the dark-skinned, blue-eyed man? Please explain

Originality != Pretentious

[Ktavialt]

You know I don't know why sdescs are so limited, I mean how many
times have we all seen something like the following:

The tall figure in the dusty reinforced sandcloth duster wearing the white,
thin sandcloth facewrap nods towards the short figure in the brown sandcloth
cloak wearing a featureless black obsidian mask, rubbing his neck.

I mean geez, how long sdescs can get lately with facewraps and cloaks.

Anyways, my thoughts,

- Ktavialt

[SanityAssassin]

Why must we limit ourselves to 35 characters only because some don't want to have too many characters to read (with the ldesc) or because some don't understand a few words here and there?

I always assumed Armageddon players are more literate than average or they wouldn't be playing an imaginative text game.  There's no shame in having to look up a word in the dictionary now and then.  That being said, ostentatious use of "big words" to appear smart or creative is college kid-level writing at best.  

But why is it that each time someone comes up with a suggestion, it seems that most answers are relatively selfish and negative.. A trend I seem to be noticing alot here.

If a suggestion is made public on the GDB, it is assumed the poster wants open, honest evaluation.  I do not see how the criticism on this thread is selfish.  If anything, it is selfish to demand the coders work to satisfy one's need for wordiness.  If you wish to attract sympathy to your cause, calling the community 'selfish' is not a good way to start.

How can the dark-skinned, cerulean-eyed young man be more vague and weak writing than the dark-skinned, blue-eyed man? Please explain

I never claimed that the specific examples used were weak and vague.  However, why not use the clearer, more succinct sdesc of the swarthy, blue eyed man?  No one uses cerulean to describe eyes conversationally except insecure types eager to show off their vocabulary.  Swarthy has less syllables and means the same thing as dark-skinned.  I can't imagine talking to a friend IC and telling them I'm looking for the cerulean-eyed man who stole my kank.  If you want your character to be truly unique it will be through their interaction with the world.

Originality != Pretentious

Overly ornate, verbose writing is pretentious and difficult to digest.  Anyone can skim through a dictionary to replace short, common words with longer, unusual ones.  That is hardly original.  It's on the same level as adding extra syllables to make things seem 'important'.

Prison = Correctional Facility
Secretary = Administrative Assistant
Shell Shock = Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome
Near = in close proximity to

I think you get the idea.  The funny thing is that this sort of writing actually highlights the writer's insecurity and need to impress.

No one said verbosity was always bad.  Truly original writing involves using words appropriately and with discretion. It takes finesse to do it right.  Use large and unusual words like seasoning; too much seasoning makes the text overly rich and difficult to digest.

[Angela Christine]

The sdesc will never be long enough.  It could be 80 characters and some people would want 85.  At first 40 would be enough, but once we got used to that we'd start hitting the limit again.  The number of characters in a word doesn't matter, because there is no limit to the number or words that could be used in an sdesc.  I would like to be able to include:

the
age
sex
race
unique charactersitics

the burly young man with cerulean eyes = 39
the elderly, dark-skinned, sloe eyed half-giant male = 52
the palsied, hunch-backed crone with steel grey hair = 53


The other problem with longer sdescs is the same one you get with the cloaked and veiled sdescs: everything that references that character is long and wordy.  Personally I try to get my sdescs as short as possible, because a long, complex sdesc looks bad in use.  Long sdescs look good when static, but bad as part of an action.

The palsied, hunch-backed crone with steel grey hair is sits at the round table in the back.
the elderly, dark-skinned, sloe eyed half-giant male is standing here.

With a dopey grin, the elderly, dark-skinned, sloe eyed half-giant male says, in Sirihish, "Hi there!"
The palsied, hunch-backed crone with steel grey hair nods slowly at the elderly, dark-skinned, sloe eyed half-giant male as she rummages through her bag, eventually pulling out a half-eatten travel cake.

Ugh.


Angela Christine

[Rhyden]

With a dopey grin, the elderly, dark-skinned, sloe eyed half-giant male says, in Sirihish, "Hi there!"

The palsied, hunch-backed crone with steel grey hair nods slowly at the elderly, dark-skinned, sloe eyed half-giant male as she rummages through her bag, eventually pulling out a half-eatten travel cake.

Ugh.


Angela Christine

Even worse with figures with facewraps. I don't want the limit to rise at all for any reason. We have ldescs for a reason.

[InsertCleverNameHere]

Sometimes shorter is better, and sometimes people do use trumped up words to explain something rather simply, in a stretch of trying to make themselves look more intelligent.. I've played another game, where half the people take time to describe features about their 'occulars' and 'auditories'... Now.. THAT is irritating. But having someone with cerulean eyes instead of blue? This isn't so bad. Because blue is blue, but sky blue and navy blueare shades apart, literally. Sea green, forest green, emerald, yadiyadiya. There's a difference to me, between using descriptive words for the sake of being descriptive, or using huge words for the sake of having a pissing contest with the next person who's also a walking dictionary/thesaurus. So..  Yeah. Brevity isn't everything, neither is slapping down your entire vocabulary of obscure words in 7 sentences. I can get a little overblown with my words, but sometimes when I cut it to the bare bones, it just leaves a naked feel, something personally lacking.

ANYway...  Back to the origional subject of the thread.. I -always- seem to run about 3 or 4 characters over. So, I'd like if it were extended just a touch myself..

Oh, and I'd love it if when someone raised their hood, it covered the veil so they didn't have the very tall hooded figure in the paint-splattered purple cloak, wearing the veil embroidered with flaming pumpkins... That is ickiness.

[amoeba]

Eyes don't belong in your sdesc.

Anything that people would notice first, belongs in the sdesc.

I agree wholeheartedly, and as an example http://www.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/100best/multi1_interview.html  provides an excellect example of this.

[Yokunama]

Greetings, everyone.. I would like to know if it would be possible to slightly extend the maximum numbers of characters in a short desc?

I like to make my short descs slightly original, but whatever I try, it always seems to be over 35 characters, and I'm left with choosing a more "generic" short desc that I'm sure people have seen a hundred times before.. Things like short, tall, muscular, bald are all good, but how many times have you seen them before?

I tried earlier the "insert color"-skinned, "insert color"-eyed young man, but it was too long, I removed the young, and it was still too long..

Then I tried the golden wild-haired, blue-eyed man.. No go.. Actually I didn't want to use blue-eyed in the first place, because how many blue-eyed PCs do you see daily?

My first choice was something like cerulean-eyed, or azure-eyed.. But that takes too much spaces and would leave me with a much shorter first description, like tall, or short, or simply "wild-haired", I also like to add young man, or middle-aged man depending on the age of my characters..

Would it be possible to extend the limit slightly, say to 40 characters or so?

Thanks.

the bronze-skinned, cerulean-eyed man is too long.. Which was not even my first choice, but something I would have went with.. Still too long, tho.

I'd suggest that you mail the mud at mud@armageddon.org with the title Request: Short Description Change. Just play with a shorter description they will be able to change it later. You can also add more changes to your character later on in the game as they grow older, lose limbs, obtain blemishes, and other physical changes. All you have to do is mail the mud with this information and they will gladly change it.

[Yokunama]

You can drop the comma, I hate commas in sdescs.  You don't need "the adjective, adjective noun".  Try just "the adjective noun".

The burly man.
The black-haired youth.
The voloptuous brunette.
The dainty man.

Sure, it isn't as descriptive, but sdescs aren't all that descriptive anyway.  Short and sweet.


AC

Yea, I totally agree. That is why they are call "Short descriptions".

[Maybe42or54]

First thing I would notice about blue eyes are blue.
I personally don't see a problem with using something like "the short, blue-eyed man" as an sdesc, and then go in the "A very light curelean blue that resembles the sky during a cloudless, windless day" sorta shit in the LONG description.

Light blue eyes? They are blue.
If I care to LOOK at you and get a more in depth look at you, I will find that you have curelean eyes.

*Editted to add*
Something that annoys me is when they use those big words in the Sdesc, then use the simple shit that'd I'd notice first in the Ldesc.

[Rhyden]

Personally, I don't like describing eyes in a sdesc. They're not noticable enough plus there are more primary defining features to people.

What I'd put in a sdesc:

-the (obviously)
-race
-age
-sex
-hair description
-size (height & weight)
-one-word description of the character's overall physicality

The only time I would use eyes or any other minor characteristic is when it truly stands out primarily with a character. Something one would notice right off the bat taking a quick glance at them.

[Socko]

I'm guilty of using complex words in a short-description-- never ones that are so archaic and seldom-used that you'd need a dictionary for, but I don't always like using simple words.

I'll do what I like; call me pretentious if you want.

[Marauder Moe]

Uncommon words in sdescs help to give your character unique keywords.  I've been in rooms where I couldn't emote with someone because his sdesc was like "the dark-haired blue-eye man" and there were 5 other PCs who came in later with those keywords.

[Twilight]

If I actually have to consult a dictionary to understand a sdesc keywords, something I've done maybe ten times in my playing history, I'd congratulate the player with such a keyword.  They've just added to my vocabulary.

[Cuusardo]

There have been PCs in the game that have caused me to need to have dictionary.com open while roleplaying them.  I like to think I have an excellent vocabulary, but I've seen people using some really obscure words that I've never even heard of.

I love dictionary.com, and I use its thesaurus function quite often when creating new PCs.  It's really helped me to find a lot of good words to use in sdescs and mdescs.

And so what if your PC has a common word or two in its sdesc?  You don't have to have a super awesome unusual sdesc with every single PC.

[X-D]

I like em short and sweet myself.

Simply because I like using change ldesc.

And eyes don't belong in sdesc...first thing you see my ass, but I suppose I should res one of the many threads on that subject rather then do it here.

Though, if you don't use eyes in your sdesc you can usually find some other descriptive term about your char and usually it is shorter.

Anything that has a hyphen in it is going to take up a ton of space.

Curly-haired...thats 12 by itself.

I always try to just describe what is *really* seen first, body type and skin type/color.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

There are two points that I need to make here.

1. Using a word not known to everyone who plays the game is not bad writing, it is not nessessarily an attempt to look smart, and it is not jarring. What it is is writing. You have all presumedly read books, and having done so, have stumbled upon words that you are not familiar with. Was the book over-written because of that? No, it was a story or articale that needed that word right where it was. You learned a new word because of it. Now, you can make yourself look smart. Stop whining about words you can not pronounce or have to look up, it is assinine, and it is insulting to those who really are just trying to make a short desc that they like.

2. I can understand the dislike for excessively long sdescs and the fear that it will verbose the screen input that you get. However, any character that ever wears a cloak already exceeds that sdesc limit. If we keep the maximum ldesc length the same, then there will be simply less room for a long-lined character to explain his actions. Let them suffer. Furthermore, it will be no worse than speaking to some cloaked figures, so I say give us 40 rather than 35 and let's call it even.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

As an aside:

Somebody noted that eyes do not belong in a sdesc.

So, do you think that in a character from the world of Dune shouldn't have his or her eyes in his or her sdesc? That is, in fact, the very first thing you notice about those characters, in film, at least. Or, what about the famed tribal on the cover of a National Geographic some time ago?

It shouldn't bother you overly what somebody has in their sdesc, as long as it coincides with their main desc. Some folks are just tall and dark and muscular, and that is all they are.

[Angela Christine]

An unusual word may not mean that the player is trying to be obscure, they may genuinely not realize that it is an obscure word.  I once . . . *quickly looks around nervously* . . . I once used the word "whelp" for a young 'rinther.  Not "the dappled dickens whelp" I used whelp before that became famous.   :oops:   I really didn't think it was obscure, I saw it used in USENET back in '95!

The worst part was one I overheard some people at a table say,
"What is a whelp?"
"I don't know.  That, I guess."
Argh!!!  Don't do that.  :x  You can't use a word neither you nor your character know to ask what a non-spoken word means.  That is insane.

If you don't know a description word means either ignore it, infer the meaning from context, or visit your friend dictionary.com.

whelp    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (hwlp, wlp)
n.
A young offspring of a mammal, such as a dog or wolf.

A child; a youth.
An impudent young fellow.

A tooth of a sprocket wheel.
Nautical. Any of the ridges on the barrel of a windlass or capstan.

v. whelped, whelp·ing, whelps
v. intr.
To give birth to whelps or a whelp.

v. tr.
To give birth to (whelps or a whelp).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English, from Old English hwelp.]

That's right, my PC was the tooth of a sprocket wheel.

Thesaurus.com is good too.

1 entry found for WHELP.
Main Entry:   brat
Part of Speech:   noun
Definition:   child
Synonyms:   cub, devil, enfant terrible, guttersnipe, jackanapes, kid, punk, puppy, rascal, snot nose, terror, unruly child, urchin, WHELP, whippersnapper, wild one, youngster
Antonyms:   little angel
Source:   Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
Copyright © 2006 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved

I guess next time I'll just use "whippersnapper."  That'll use up 15 characters right there.  


Angela Christine

[spawnloser]

I dunno, AC...I think 'jackanapes' is the best word from that list.

[Vesperas]

There are two points that I need to make here.

1. Using a word not known to everyone who plays the game is not bad writing, it is not nessessarily an attempt to look smart, and it is not jarring. What it is is writing. You have all presumedly read books, and having done so, have stumbled upon words that you are not familiar with. Was the book over-written because of that? No, it was a story or articale that needed that word right where it was. You learned a new word because of it. Now, you can make yourself look smart. Stop whining about words you can not pronounce or have to look up, it is assinine, and it is insulting to those who really are just trying to make a short desc that they like.

I can't help myself, I have to reply.  

For Point #1, I believe it is sort of asanine to input words that are extremely rare or archaic.  I am not calling 'cerulean' a rare word (I'd use it), because it is fairly common (it's on crayons!).  It's very rare that I will see a PC or a NPC using a word in their short descs that I do not understand, but every so often, I will see one that confounds me.

Most recent was the discovery of the word 'lilliputian'.  I looked into the long desc, thinking I was going to get some clue as to what 'lilliputian' meant, but it could be a reference to all sorts of things: stature, frame, size, color (my first guess), style... in a book, this would have been fine, because context clues immediately followed afterward.

But this is NOT a book.

This is a real-time roleplaying experience.  I don't have time to sit and wait for my modem to drag up dictionary.com (which I did do), especially if I am in an active, full roleplaying session.  I guess I could OOC to the room, "Yo, people, I'm looking up some words," but that would annoy my fellow players.

Don't confound your audience (other players) on PURPOSE.
Find something you like, that's original, that's suave, but don't drag something out of the back of a long-forgotten old dictionary because you want to The One, ya?

[Pantoufle]

Greetings, everyone.. I would like to know if it would be possible to slightly extend the maximum numbers of characters in a short desc?

No, please no!  35 is the perfect amount if you ask me.  Anything longer and it quickly gets tiring to read.

Besides, just remember the longer your sdesc is the shorter your ldesc can be.  With an sdesc of 40 characters long you'd be lucky to use an ldesc of 'is standing here' before it gets cut off!

[spawnloser]

You know, Vesperas, there are plenty of people that play this game that won't know what asinine or archaic means.  I mean, however much I'd like to believe that people that play a game like this are intelligent and well read (I mean, it is a text-based game), unfortunately, we have some people that can only be described as dumb and/or [not well educated] (I'm going to avoid using 'ignorant' this time as it tends to raise people's ire).  I'm not saying they're bad roleplayers or bad people, it's just an accurate way of describing them.

Possible solution?  Don't look it up.  Look at the mdesc and ignore the sdesc word.  The mdesc is an accurate description of the person and the sdesc should not include anything that isn't in the mdesc.  This means that you don't need to know what lilliputian means and react to it, just react to what it says in the mdesc instead.  I mean, your character is NEVER going to use the word lilliputian anyway, so why break your head over it?  Just write it down and look the word up later?

PS: I know EXACTLY which NPC you're talking about with that sdesc, and he's damn cool.

PPS: Lilliputian means small for those that don't know.  (You know, the island of Lilliput, where tiny people lived in Gulliver's Travels.)