Kinda Uncool

[Sanvean]

I just want to say that I think it's uncool to kill linkdead newbies*.  Yes, I know it's hard to tell when someone's new or not.  But this game has a steep learning curve for new players, and it would be a courtesy on the part of older players to cut them a little slack at first.  If someone's dropped link in a quit room, it's a pretty good sign that they might not have a good grasp of the game yet.

A couple of thinks and a say to justify the killing don't make it not mean, and when there are virtual NPCs in the room as well, you're sliding over the boundaries of common sense.

I really appreciate the people who take time to assist the new players by answering questions, showing them how to play, proposing amendments to docs or code to make them/it more intuitive and easy to use.  And I'd ask the rest of you to think before posting to castigate people for not understanding a subtle point of the game, or telling them they need to do Y and Z.  Give them a little time to figure out X before you start on that.

If you want more players, which I think most of us do (including myself), then remember that they come out of that group of newbies.  Make that first hour something other than an intimate look at the mantis head and they may stick around.  Otherwise, I don't blame them for finding a more welcoming place.

*After all, would you prefer the challenge of pkilling someone who knows the syntax and the world, or to kill that poor linkdead guy standing there?  In the latter case, isn't it a little like shooting fish in a barrel?

[Fnord]

I'm glad to see an "official staff position" on this. Amen.

Obviously there's a big difference between already having intent to kill someone and then seeing them drop link, or finding them LD. There you might have IC motivation to go through with it. Happening upon someone that you're not aggresive towards or may not even know, realizing they're LD, and then killing them (usually for free loot) is really twinky, IMO.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

But I like shooting fish in a barrel!!!

Nah, just joking. Quite seriously, I agree with Sanvean on this one. Killing newbies in a fair arena and in keeping with the guidelines of in-character actions is all good with me.

Killing a newbie when that newbie can not experience it is not.

[Armaddict]

I go along the lines of doing whatever is IC.

As I've always said...I think letting an ooc fact (this guy is a newbie) influence your decision is just plain wrong.  Please note, this also includes -targeting- newbies because they're newbies.

[Marauder Moe]

I definitely think that this is one issue where playability would trump ICness for the most part.  I don't believe there are any IC reasons good enough to justify killing a linkdead newbie in a public (ie not your super-secret defiler lair) place.  If there is any such reason you should wish up and work it out with the staff first.

[Anonymous]

There was a thread about this a few weeks back, so I'm glad you posted this Sanvean.  I think targetting a link-dead anything is kinda uncool, though, but even if you saw things differently it is nice to get clarification on important things like this from the staff.

[jhunter]

I go along the lines of doing whatever is IC.

As I've always said...I think letting an ooc fact (this guy is a newbie) influence your decision is just plain wrong. Please note, this also includes -targeting- newbies because they're newbies.

Agreed.

Killing someone for the reason that they are linkdead is wrong too, there needs to be actual IC reasons/history behind it for your pc to kill them for one.

Just coming up with an excuse to pk them because they are a newbie/linkdead pc is just plain wrong, but if it is actually IC to do so...then stay in character.

[Bogre]

Killing anyone that is linkdead in a public place is kinda out-of-place. But hey, if that newbie goes linkdead in the rinth or in the desert, they're free game, right?

[Cavus]

Killing anyone that is linkdead in a public place is kinda out-of-place. But hey, if that newbie goes linkdead in the rinth or in the desert, they're free game, right?

No, no and no for desert. In desert a beast can kick their ass, but you as a PC shouldn't attack them. He didn't go linkdead intentionally, so you shouldn't kill. Put yourself to that linkdead's position. Would you like to see your char is dead after connecting to game finally?

[Bogre]

No, but it has happened to me before. I'm not saying you should target them specifically for death if they are linkdead out there, but if it is ICly demanded on your part, say they are the raider you've been hunting diligently for years or something.

[Cavus]

No, but it has happened to me before. I'm not saying you should target them specifically for death if they are linkdead out there, but if it is ICly demanded on your part, say they are the raider you've been hunting diligently for years or something.

Nice, then wait there for him to be online. Linkdead cannot "disarm", "kick", "bash", or "flee". Maybe, he has not even a weapon at hand.

[Maybe42or54]

If they've been a raider for years, he probably wont need kick or bash.
Wish up to have them logged off or leave them alone.

[Anonymous]

No, but it has happened to me before. I'm not saying you should target them specifically for death if they are linkdead out there, but if it is ICly demanded on your part, say they are the raider you've been hunting diligently for years or something.

You know what, I despise this line of reasoning.  It's very funny in a sad sort of way to read so many posts about how it becomes so important to stick to character when dealing with link-dead PCs.

Leave link-dead PCs alone, killing them is robbing their player of the experience.  This is not a competitive game.  I'm sure you can stick to character and just ignore that that linkdead PC is there.

[HardCarbon]

No, but it has happened to me before. I'm not saying you should target them specifically for death if they are linkdead out there, but if it is ICly demanded on your part, say they are the raider you've been hunting diligently for years or something.

You know what, I despise this line of reasoning.  It's very funny in a sad sort of way to read so many posts about how it becomes so important to stick to character when dealing with link-dead PCs.

Leave link-dead PCs alone, killing them is robbing their player of the experience.  This is not a competitive game.  I'm sure you can stick to character and just ignore that that linkdead PC is there.

Is a big part of the 'griefer' vs 'Carebear'  argument.

1) Its a PK game.. I can kill you.. so I will
2) I can Kill you.. but have no reason to do so.. so I'll help you and make a friend of you... to enhance my playing experience...


 I think both extremes are annoying.. the first more so due to the no rez thing.  and the first  tend to do it.. just to make folk feel bad.

[Anonymous]

Is a big part of the 'griefer' vs 'Carebear'  argument.

1) Its a PK game.. I can kill you.. so I will
2) I can Kill you.. but have no reason to do so.. so I'll help you and make a friend of you... to enhance my playing experience...

No, it's a part of neither.  It's about taking advantage of someone's OOC trouble to end their PC's life.

Kill all you want.  Killing a linkdead PC isn't cool.

[SanityAssassin]

Kill all you want.  Killing a linkdead PC isn't cool.

This is worth repeating.

[Rhyden]

Kill all you want.  Killing a linkdead PC isn't cool.

[Cavus]

Kill all you want.  Killing a linkdead PC isn't cool.

[Dracul]

I think I need to pk more. :/

Yup...all this talk and I barely ever pk.

So...whos up?

[Armaddict]

It's been said before that killing a linkdead pc is sometimes necessary to keep the integrity of role-play consistent.  Particularly when someone goes linkdead in the middle of a well role-played raiding or mugging scene, etc.  A grace period is supposed to be given, after which the action continues.

Thus, if you've been hunting someone for several years, and you come upon them in the middle of the desert, yes, you will kill them.  Maybe after a grace period, and maybe not.  The reason I say maybe not, is because in that sort of situation, particularly with how such scenes are usually played in the desert...the aggressor may not even -realize- they're linkdead.

[Anonymous]

It's been said before that killing a linkdead pc is sometimes necessary to keep the integrity of role-play consistent.

Your attention to roleplay is not the only part of the equation.  There's another person involved.  If someone goes linkdead a second before a fight or during I wouldn't care, but if you've been hunting an invisible magicker for days and find them in the middle of the sands link-dead then RP integrity dictates that you ignore them.

Involving the player in their own death, no matter how briefly, is more important than scoring a kill.

[Armaddict]

This is a difference in opinion, CRW.  You're playing with consideration to the players, I'm playing with consideration to the point of the game.

[Anonymous]

I'm playing with consideration to the point of the game.

Which is to roleplay -TOGETHER-.

[Marauder Moe]

this game has a point besides entertaining the players?

[Armaddict]

Next time you're gonna kill me, I'm going linkdead.  Next time I'm in a role where I'm hunted, I'll just stay linkdead...all the time.

Point taken?

Thus the nature of the grace period.