A proposed change to 'shadow'

[Armaddict]

Not sure how hard this would be to code, but I'm just winging it.

What if 'shadow' was made different from 'follow' by making you follow a room behind?  No more shadowing to get past guards or through doorways...you can't really slip in -right- behind someone very easily without them noticing.

So, if you were shadowing a guy, and he left north, you wouldn't move.  In that other room, if he went east, you would then move north, and as he continued moving...you'd stay a room behind.

It's a pretty rough idea, just kind of occured to me.  Would the change be worth it?

[Tamarin]

Interesting.  I demand immediate discussion.

[Sakra]

I think of shadowing like this, from the story "The Spice Run":
"As he came to the sidestreet leading to the area, Vakse remembered what he had done to pass the gate-guards and thought to apply it here. He spied out a rich-looking merchant wearing the sash of House Salaar, and as the merchant passed through the gate; Vakse followed at the distance of about three cords, head bowed. The brawny mulish mercenary set to guarding the quarter payed the elf and his adopted master little heed, and went on to stop a half-elven gladiator from entering." -Dyrinis

I don't think rich snobby people like house merchants and nobles would notice this sort of thing. Their guards would, but they wouldn't. Trained soldiers would probably be a little more observant.

[Maybe42or54]

And i would like it better if you had to pass every shadowed move attempt, not the first one and then disappear to everyone in every screen that they move into.

I like this idea.

[Spoon]

Nice idea, but some rooms are a lot further apart than others. I have no idea about the skill itself, so I'm not sure if this is a very important factor.

[cyberpatrol_735]

Talk about a coding project.. man I'd hate to see that.. you're talking long lines of code here...

[Anonymous]

I would assume the rooms could be large/small and filled with people to enable one to shadow without being found, have you tried trailing behind another one street away, with a lot of people in between, still think you can see that guy?

Then wouldn't that be one less ability to move into a guarded room, though I find it hard to understand how one can shadow another into the room, the guards would certainly be suspicious.

[Ghost]

And i would like it better if you had to pass every shadowed move attempt, not the first one and then disappear to everyone in every screen that they move into.

That would make "shadow" useless.  Because, statistically, no matter how good you are in the skill, if you are not %100 good, you will always be detected.  Lets say you have your hide at %95?  Which is REALLY high right?  Now if you shadow someone, on the average, you will be detected in 20 leagues move.  
Is this realistic?  I dont hink so.
In overly populated, and crowded like HELL cities, such as Allanak, and Tuluk, following someone without being detected should be by far really easy.  And someone skilled in the art of bending in the crowds and not taking attention?  It is a piece of cake.  So, if there is such a chance of getting detected, then it has no realistic roots.

True.. Shadow is overpowered.  But checking for "hide" again in each room is not the solution.  It can be, checking once for every 10-20 RL minutes.  Or it can be checking for every 50 leagues or so move.  This way, it will be more realistic I guess.

[Gaare]

That's a good idea, maybe it can be coded for another command . On the other hand it sounds much useless and different then current usage of shadow to me.  Let's say that is coded.. then.:

You have begin shadowing a silky, she walked a few squares then entered her apartment, estate, compound, etc.. and so the door of the building is closed. Then?

Another scenario:
Day ended into a moonless, dark night, or the one you followed entered a dark place with his torch...

[Maybe42or54]

Closer with more skill?

[wizturbo]

I love it.  One room away.

Being able to shadow your way into a high security area is absolutely insane and this would solve that problem.  In exchange for this, because it would be a major hit to the sneaky classes, i think burglars should be able to lock doors without the key if they have enough skill.

[JollyGreenGiant]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.  Is there -really- a massive problem with people getting shadowed into places?  Because I haven't noticed one, but maybe I'm just missing out on the phenomenon here.  And if you really want to get a feel for how shadowing might work... play the Thief games.

[Synthesis]

The ability to shadow people through doors and into guarded places is a workaround for the fact that you can't break and enter through windows, you can't scale or tunnel beneath walls, you can't bribe NPC guards, and so forth.

If you changed shadow so that it were no longer possible to shadow people into places, you'd have to code an entire new system of rooftops, windows, climbable walls and on, and on, and on, and on, and on...something I seriously doubt any of the staff are willing to tackle at this point.

So, for now...like JollyGreenGiant said:  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Armaddict]

The ability to shadow people through doors and into guarded places is a workaround for the fact that you can't break and enter through windows, you can't scale or tunnel beneath walls, you can't bribe NPC guards, and so forth.

As I understand it, those -can- be role-played, Sythesis.  I just know that you as a player wouldn't want to let immortals know your plan of action so that it can be carried out realistically.

Shadowing through a doorway is just...wrong.  And I'm guilty of it too, and though I don't play a rogue character now, I -usually- do, and it would make it so that you don't just need an uber sneak and hide to get into someone's house to kill them immediately after.

This would promote craftiness and some intelligence over skillmaxing, in my opinion.  But...I digress, if the population of the mud doesn't like it, it's not worth it.

[Kankman]

Is it really that difficult to stay a "room" behind people as they move through the city as it is? I don't see any point in coding this.

[Delirium]

Is it really that difficult to stay a "room" behind people as they move through the city as it is? I don't see any point in coding this.

Especially with the watch command.

[JollyGreenGiant]

The ability to shadow people through doors and into guarded places is a workaround for the fact that you can't break and enter through windows, you can't scale or tunnel beneath walls, you can't bribe NPC guards, and so forth.

As I understand it, those -can- be role-played, Sythesis.  I just know that you as a player wouldn't want to let immortals know your plan of action so that it can be carried out realistically.

First, it's always nice to let the imms know what's going on, even if you're shadowing someone into the Estate and all you have time to do is wish up about it.  Second, I'm going to sound like a broken record, but play through a couple of levels of Thief: The Dark Project on the highest difficulty level and you'll see exactly how shadowing someone through a doorway works.  Third, accusing someone of deliberately keeping the immortals in the dark in order to play unrealistically is both uncalled for and supremely arrogant.  Shame on you.  Fourth, while it is certainly possible to roleplay breaking in through a window, climb a wall, etc. all of these -require- immortal intervention in order to successfully accomplish.  While I'm sure the occasional assisted breakin is fun for the Imms, assuming that one is always going to be there to do this for you when there is a viable, coded method for accomplishing the same thing is probably a mistake.

Shadowing through a doorway is just...wrong.  And I'm guilty of it too, and though I don't play a rogue character now, I -usually- do, and it would make it so that you don't just need an uber sneak and hide to get into someone's house to kill them immediately after.

See point #2 above.  I will add to that that I accidentally sneak up on my wife all the time which freaks her out, so I generally have to make sure to announce my presence if I can tell that she's not paying attention in order to avoid that.

This would promote craftiness and some intelligence over skillmaxing, in my opinion.  But...I digress, if the population of the mud doesn't like it, it's not worth it.

Crime and intelligence don't go hand in hand.  There are smart criminals out there.  There are also phenomenally stupid ones.  The smart ones might get away with it more often, but even a stupid criminal get be successful in remaining uncaught.

[wizturbo]

The ability to shadow people through doors and into guarded places is a workaround for the fact that you can't break and enter through windows, you can't scale or tunnel beneath walls, you can't bribe NPC guards, and so forth.

If you changed shadow so that it were no longer possible to shadow people into places, you'd have to code an entire new system of rooftops, windows, climbable walls and on, and on, and on, and on, and on...something I seriously doubt any of the staff are willing to tackle at this point.

So, for now...like JollyGreenGiant said:  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

All these things are roleplayable.  Wish up for assistance if you can't work with PC's to do so.

Also, these heavily guarded estates are MEANT to STOP intruders.  They should prevent almost everyone from getting in, unless the intruder is a very clever sonofabitch.  Bribing an NPC guard is NOT easy in these estates.  Many of the guards are slaves, who are so insanely loyal to their house that you would really need to get into their brains to figure out a suitable bribe/ransom/blackmail to be able to get them to help you.

I also said, that for non-guarded estates, lockpicking should be made more useful.  I suggested that lockpicking enable you to relock the door with enough skill.