Your Roleplaying Sucks!

[sjanimal]

No matter how hard you try to be a good roleplayer and a good emoter, inevitably someone is going to decide that your roleplaying sucks and that they should correct you.

Personally, I welcome this.  I've gotten a lot better at roleplaying since I started playing ARM, and about half of this has come from watching the examples of people doing a good job.
However the other half of my improvement has really come from getting feedback.

I've seen three general ways for this:

1) Emailing an IMM -- I personally don't like using this way, because I tend to assume that the IMMs have better stuff to do than send me an email that says "Joe the Dwarf thinks that your emoting isn't so hot."  The IMMs usually recommend this method -- but of course they have to, since they are authority figures and authority figures have the responsibility to have the appearance of helping people solve problems.  The reality of the situation is that they are really busy, and secretly wish that we would solve much of our own problems.

2) Breaking character -- example

The tall handsome dwarf says,
OOC: "try to include more descriptions when you emote"
When this happens to me, usually I just smile and nod, but I also usually just make a mental note to PK the person and go log out for a while.  I don't do this on purpose.  But the truth is that although many people find this method of communication to be useful and efficient, others of us find it jarring.  

3) A general, anonymous note to the board,
I like this one the best, because then everyone gets to benefit from the information, it becomes open to discussion, it forces no one to break character, and best of all, the only people that have to read it are the ones that are interested in your opinion.  
DRAWBACK:  Some people get embarrased by this.

So I want to find out what everyone thinks.  You know my vote.

[marko]

The only people in any position to judge another's roleplay are the immortals.  No matter what you think of what someone is doing - you are in no position to judge.

As such, the only valid manner of having your roleplay critiqued is from an immortal.

[Maybe42or54]

I'm more into the threads people make with a "Had fun getting killed by you!" Then Tell me why they liked it and why They didn't.

[cyberpatrol_735]

I personally would like email from the staff, because in my mind, they know what they want in -their- mud, they work hard on it, and they deserve to say who is within or without their standards. Also, if it comes from a player, its really not a big deal, because nobody is perfect, and seeing as how they are a player, its just not the same as it being a staff member. I personally will take the comments into mind (I haven't gotten any yet) but usually won't go by them unless they're really good.

[sjanimal]

Marko,

I agree with you 100%  Sadly, other people are going to insist on wanting to tell nice RPers like you and me how to do our job.  So what's your preffered method of hearing this?  I'm guess GDB in your case since you won't be forced to read it?

[jhunter2l2log]

The only people in any position to judge another's roleplay are the immortals. No matter what you think of what someone is doing - you are in no position to judge.

As such, the only valid manner of having your roleplay critiqued is from an immortal.

[marko]

I wouldn't go so far as to presume that my roleplaying is nice.

For some roles I'm alright and for others I just plain suck.  I mean suck.  In fact, I could be considered one of the worst people to even attempt such a role.  Therefore, I don't play those roles.

In the end - we play for our enjoyment.  We roleplay as we see our characters should be played.  If we are wrong in that then no one except an immortal is in a position to point out where the underlying flaws of the character concept were.

A player only sees a single facet of any character.  As such, a player cannot judge with any degree of understanding or authority.  In the end, I'd rather not see players attempting to "correct" other players.

If they have a problem with the way a character is played - send an email to the account stating what the perceived problem is.  If there is one an immortal will handle it.

[Bestatte]

I'll agree with Marko here, but I would add just a little something:

In the past when I've come across new players, I've had occasion to correct them on their RP. These would be very blaring, very obvious things...sometimes requiring only a simple suggestion, another to tell them outright that they need to find another way of doing something.

Example:

New player walks in the room.

New player says, in sirihish, "Hi I'm a thief where do I train?"

Solution is -not- to e-mail mud and hope that they happen to see the e-mail within the next 30 seconds. A wish - perhaps...

But my solution would be to herd the new player to a less populated area and go OOC on them and tell them that a thief wouldn't announce that they're a thief to the entire room, and that this game doesn't have "training" like other games have, and then I'd give him the URL to the thief's bible and the FAQ page of the website, and urge him to read both ASAP.

This has actually happened to me, and that was how I handled it. I -also- sent a wish up to the staff so they'd know I was doing it, in case they wanted to intervene. But the staff isn't always available, so sometimes in a pinch, I feel it really is up to us to assist the new players so they don't do something stupid from an OOC point of view, that causes them trouble ICly that they just plain didn't understand.

[Gaare]

I totally agree with Marco. IMMs should be the main point of critizing one's RP... On the other hand,

While I was playing my second character (While I was a total newbie) I got a mail forward by IMMs which was originally sent to them by a player of a clanmate about my roleplay. And since that time, I have sent a few mails to MUD about specific characters' players and their roleplay.  I believe that should be something rare (mail mess in MUD mail box) but it is a gentle way of critizing one's roleplay.

[Savak]

Personally I really, really do NOT like RP critique of specific incidents on the GDB.  It's too much hee-haw on too little information, then people get defensive or try to explain further and IC information starts getting more and more involved.  The only people who have any sense of the context or timing involved are those who were there or were watching; everyone else is drawing assumptions.

Sometimes specific incidents will be the initial basis for a generic query or discussion -- this I have no personal problem with.

Meanwhile, I don't know anyone on staff who wouldn't be willing to forward your comments on to another player, anonymously if preferred (although with veto power if you're too rude or..well..completely incorrect, but in that case at least you've opened a dialogue).  Most of the time, though, communicating to another player in this way really isn't necessary or appropriate, and if it's a negative critique, should be at least filtered through staff anyway.

-Savak

[John]

Meanwhile, I don't know anyone on staff who wouldn't be willing to forward your comments on to another player, anonymously if preferred (although with veto power if you're too rude or..well..completely incorrect, but in that case at least you've opened a dialogue).

And this is why I voted for the staff option I've never had any critique forwarded to me, but I would prefer it this way so that the staff can say "we have information you don't to know you're wrong" or "hey, joe blog sent us this here it is." which means they've read it and don't disagree with it (which holds more water then some rant on the GDB).

[da mitey warrior]

Handling it IC is usually the best option.  Outside of someone who PKed you, a noble or a templar, you can handle just about everything by just telling the character with your own character.  

If someone whispers to you from a table from across the room, tell them you can't hear them.  If someone says they're the only Salarr Merchant in the world, tell them how crazy that is.  If someone orders a bottle of '87 VSOP Ginka Wine, tell them they're crazy and there's no such thing.  If you're going to be a nazi OOCly, you might as well be one ICly.

A far better option than that is just not getting bent out of shape over little errors.  People arn't going to RP perfectly, it's just not going to happen.

[Cold_Dark_Aurora]

Laff, poor me.    So far, I'm the only one who voted for 'Breaking character.'

I agree with everyone that the IMMs prolly have the most authority and the best judgement, as it is their game.  But the IMMs also probably arn't running behind me all the time making sure that I am doing my best--heck, I'm not even sure that they are surveying me at all, at times.  

I LOVE feedback, good or bad.  I welcome it from anyone, and relying on it coming from just the IMMs will most likely mean that I hardly EVER will get any feedback unless it was exceptionally poor.  I havn't roleplayed in the past four years, and I have a very tiny vocabulary, so I wouldn't be exceptionally great, either.

I guess getting commented on through the boards is great, but, honestly, I'm a little dense.  Chances are, I wouldn't see the post, and if I did, there's a chance that I would have absolutely no idea what you are talking about or who.  This comes about as a result of my EXTREMELY poor memory and the fact that I'm not very "quick" on details such as those found in boards (I often read things backwards or read words that are never there in the first place).  

So this leaves me relying on my fellow players.  I'm not saying that you need to waltz up to me and go "Yo, you suck."  I want good, honest feedback, possibly with some suggestions.  I am eager to learn and constantly sharpen my skills, because I am slightly egotistical with my roleplaying and enjoy thinking that I'm good.

I understand that many Arm players are very serious ones who hate breaking out of character to make OOC commentary.  This is understandable because, visually, it is very jarring in Armageddon.  However, I am not a nazi against getting to know or sharing a very brief "moment" with my fellow players.  I love roleplay, but I also
love to see that the person who is raping my arse with a pointy stick
is having fun and is being good-natured about it.

[sarahjc]

Hrm.. I have had a lot of crazy Newbie dealings lately.. A lot.

I will be going with a blend of all those things except posting on the board. I hate it when people post complaints about a single person on the board, especially a new one.  Cause:


1.   That person most likely has no idea what they did was wrong and now you have embarrassed them, a day late.

2.   How do you know that they even read these boards. I know that half the people in my clan don't read them and we –must- post on the IG board.

So I am a negative on the Board post. You want to bring up a valid topic, bring up something that you see often. Not a single instance of some guy saying "OK, Cool."

Now, in game people do need to be corrected sometimes.. This happens OOC and IC for me. I try to do as much as I can IC. But for Newbie PC's I will go OOC as much as needed for mechanics and such things. Because those are OOC issues they will have. Things like wear locations, Talk, tell, sit, where to log out, how to get food, use a stable or a tailor, all of those.  RP stuff.. unless it is glaringly bad I will try to go about IC.

If it is someone who is near death asks a noble, "any1 no where i can get somethin 2 drink round here, I just killed 5 bad ass things in the forest and now it says that I'm thirsty"

I will most likely kill them on the spot.. Well no, but I would just send an Email to the mud about this person. Only because well.. That is just too much for me to even attempt to grasp and that person needs to read the docs. I may just tell that person IC'ly where to get water just to get them out of the place where they are ruining my rp.

On a more subtle note, if you are that brave sole bitching out my Templar PC, you are going to learn IC why that is bad to do such. Unless you are an 80 warrior, you should be begging for forgiveness if you don't want to die.

Now as far as good RP goes. ALWAYS send that to the mud. Or make sure the mud knows.. Leaving an anonymous compliment for the person on the boards, isn't as beneficial as sending it to the mud.

Sending a note saying: Wow, The blue-haired, purple bottomed man is really starting come along. I have been really impressed with his recent play and I think he is really starting to grasp the game.

Or: I would just like to a moment to compliment the RP of such and such, she really made the scene come alive last night. Good stuff from that PC.

This ensures that the staff can take note of that person, watch them and maybe even compliment them themselves. Also.. Having consistent compliments on your RP going to staff and not anonymous kanks pointing out something very vague on the board may even get you a point of Karma or two..

Now I am not saying that getting all your friends send emails to the mud that say, "Tommy rocks, give him some Karma." will get you a point. But compliments to the mud will definitely get people looking at you.

These are just my opinions though. Sorry Sjanimal. I know I always disagree with you.

[Anonymous]

The only time I can recall ever correcting someone on their roleplay is when some new guy came in and started emoting that he was reading the tavern message board.  Like I did on my first day.

Rather than embarrass the guy I sent him a psi with 'OOC' at the beginning or a whisper or something.  Or maybe I just meant to.

Correcting someone's roleplay in game is a bad thing to do.  Why?

A) You might be wrong.
B) People, in general, can respond to crticism in a negative way.

If something really irks you email the mud, otherwise you can be sure the player will either be long gone or will, through watching players and/or reading this board, pick up good habits.

[Cenghiz]

Err.. Only once in six months or so, whenever I see a newbie RPing or trying to RP well, I simply wish up "Greetings, forgive me for bothering bla.bla. The obese human with two heads is a newbie, still he seems to play perfectly."

When I see someone is playing the opposite of what the docs claim, I again try a wish up.. Because I would probably be too angry to solve the situation myself.

I don't send a mail.. After 10 mins passed, it would be too late. The staff may solve the situation if they have time, or ignore my wish if they don't.

But if the character I meet is cheating for sure, I would send a log to the account instantly. Also I would deal harsh punishments myself if I'm wielding enough power and this wouldn't bend my character too much.

Example: You see someone linkdead.. My usual practice is making sure that char is linkdead, then wishing up politely to have him logged out, if staff hasn't time to log him out, carrying the character to the safety. But if I see someone attacking that linkdead char a few minutes later, forgive me but, I wouldn't mind typing "cast '<censored>' bitch" or "bash bitch". I know this is OOC hatred, but noone has the right to kill someone's 30-day-old character just because of a problem in the internet connection. Then I would send the log to the MUD account, explain the situation then ask them to fry that cheater's ass. Period.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

I used to break character to 'correct' people's roleplay.
It's a bad idea. Trust me.

[Cenghiz]

I don't try to correct a cheater.. I try to 'disintegrate' him so he doesn't cause trouble for the fellow RPers if I have the power and logic for that.

[Rhyden]

Hey guys, instead of being critics and giving negative feedback, I'd like it if more positive, good feedback was given. And personally, I wouldn't care where or when it was given (OOC or imms). I always enjoy a person saying OOCly "Good Rping" or "I like the wording you used there". Although this doesn't happen too often, it's still nice to get more positive than negative feedback.

Also, I've noticed that immortal notes given to each character, at least for me, are pretty much every single negative thing I've done. It would probably give me a better concience and view of the game if perhaps imms -also- wrote notes about some things -positivie- that I (and others) have done.

This is my 2 'sids and I wouldn't mind seeing this happening more often!

[amoeba]

I dislike OOC feedback except for the limited cases of brand spanking new newbies doing blatant things, and even in that case I would prepher it handled IC if possible.

I came to this mud for an immersive RP experience, OOC disrupts that.  To me it's like the people one seat behind you talking through a movie.   Lately I've seen a lot of 'movie talkers', personally I came here to see the flick.

That being said, if the person knows who I am, obviously not always the case, a polite NON-anoynomous PM is fine.  Otherwise a note passed through the IMMs.  Personally I RP for my experience mostly, I am aware of my limitations and work through them as best as possible.  I will rarely if ever negatively critique people.  I have been known to send a few 'kudos' to people though, you can learn just as much by what you do right, as what you do wrong.

[sjanimal]

I think I've learned a lot from this poll.  

A few people like to see posts on the Discussion Board.  Most people prefer to get feedback from the IMMs.  

Breaking character is the least popular form of correction.  Very interesting.

[Tamarin]

And pretty darn obvious if you ask me.