Mentorship

[Gaare]

While I was trying to find something for saturday, I decide to play some those so-called RPI muds. I notice something while I was making an application. They have mentorship system in the MUD.

ARM has many helpers, but I believe a newbie can easily lost in the web page and even would not see the helper list link. What I suggest is when a new account is opened maybe newbie can recieve a mail address of a helper.

Also just for curiosity, how often helpers get mails from newbies?

I have been a helper for a short time, but at least I was expecting to see a couple mails in my box from newbies, but there is still none.


:idea:  IMO the helpers link suits better in somewhere in the main page.

[Cuusardo]

I personally like the idea of putting a link to the helpers info page in a place like on the main index.  A lot of newbies seem to miss it.

[ashyom]

I often include the link to the helpers page when approving new players.
-A

[sjanimal]

I think this is an awesome idea.  I've been playing for like what...half a year now?  And I would STILL benefit from having a mentor if I were allowed to take one.  I hope this idea gets the full consideration it deserves.

[Agent_137]

I've never emailed a helper. I've often IMed them.

I've unofficially mentored some new players back when I was a Byn sergeant. Proud to say they're doing a -fine- job today. Not that I'm taking the credit. It takes a village to raise a child!

Trouble with mentorship is it can be ineffective if it's assigned. And ineffective mentorship might be worse than none at all. Maybe it isn't. Worth looking into.

[Krath]

Yes, What Agent says is absolutely correct about new players. They tend to IM you
rather than email you.  I have received one email from a new player regarding
ARM. However in the last two days, I have received about 5-6 IMs from new players asking
for help.  I think The Mentoring program would be a huge bonus, to the mud, however, I
think IC and OOC barriers must be stressed to the new player at the beginning of his/her
mentorship.

[sarahjc]

It would be cool if helpers were actually assigned to Newbies. Maybe each helper could get two or three of them each, with a three month drop off.  I think it's a cool idea because:

1. The Newbie now has a specialized person there to help just them. It's much more personal than just passing on a web page with a list of people.

2. I think you would find that a lot of the newbie questions would now get filtered through the helpers instead of on the boards.

It would be nice to see when a new person logs in, or gets approved for the first time a note that says:  

Hello Stinky Pants, welcome to the Armageddon mud community. We noticed that you are a brand new account. To help you adjust to our extremely detailed world we have assigned you one of our helpers. Please contact:

Sevendeadlyvenomz by the following means:

Sevy@seven11.com

Sevy@ilovesnowballing.net

Our helpers are highly knowledgeable and can answer a majority of your starting player questions, from game mechanics to basic social etiquette. Sevendeadlyvenomz has been notified that you are new player assigned to him/her and looks forward to hearing from you.  If you would like your helper to contact you,  please respond with a reply email stating "Yes, I would like my helper to contact me."

Also please visit out General discussion board at Yada, Yada..



Having one contact that you can depend on as opposed to just a list of strangers, in my opinion is a much better Ice-breaker for Newbies. I think it also promotes player retention, that we care enough to have a buddy system when just learning the ropes.

Just an idea though.

[Seeker]

Sarahjc,

It is an excellent idea, and I am rallying, again, behind it.


Seeker

[sarahjc]

Thanks Seeker, I'd like to see what a few of the helpers think about the idea. I mean I don't mind being generous with their time, but I wonder if they would.

[Krath]

Thanks Seeker, I'd like to see what a few of the helpers think about the idea. I mean I don't mind being generous with their time, but I wonder if they would.

Im down.

[Larrath]

Sure, sounds like a great idea.

[cyberpatrol_735]

Gonna go with the crowd on this one, Sounds great.

[Bestatte]

If I was a helper I'd totally love this idea. That way I wouldn't end up getting a ton of IMs from unknown people simply because other helpers don't have instant messaging, or IMs on services that the newbies don't have, or whatever. I'd have "x" number of new folks I'd take responsibility for, and could let the staff know I'm ready for more when I'm ready for more.

[sarahjc]

Wow, I have a cool idea and people like it.. Sweet!

Now.. can Imm's like it too??

I only wonder how many newbies we actually get, and would more helpers be needed?

But I think the whole idea of asking the New person if they want a mentor would help that, cause not everyone would.

[sjanimal]

*bump*

[Trenidor]

Just put the helpers link on the front page of Armageddon.org

I get lots of questions as it is from new players, and I'm more than happy to help someone.

Maybe, Gaare, your problem is that it's easier for someone to chat with you via a chat program rather than email back and forth which may take a long time.

[Gaare]

Maybe, Gaare, your problem is that it's easier for someone to chat with you via a chat program rather than email back and forth which may take a long time.

Actually I do get some IMs from newbies, but I still stand behind the idea of mentorship.

Even if mentorship can help just a handful new players, that's a gain after all.

[Nidhogg]

I think the idea of mentorship has a great deal of merit. My reservations mostly revolve around mismatching of mentor and mentee. What if their times don't hook up? What if they don't communicate well? What if the mentee has questions the mentor can't answer? (After all, I'm on staff and I often don't have all the answers. Many of the other staff don't have all the answers. Well, except Halaster, but his answers always seem to result in wide-spread death. Not that there's anything wrong with that."

So, if we're assigning mentors and mentees how do we ensure that we pick the right mentor for each mentee?

One solution might be to have a link to the helper page and an indication on that page about which mentors are currently accepting mentees. Maybe something the helper in question can toggle on and off. This way a new person could shop a bit and find someone with whom they can relate.

[Cavus]

One of MUDs have "newbie channel". You can turn it on, or off whenever you like. We can implement this in Arm. We should keep OOC, and add "newbie channel", so all newbies can get proper help in reasonable time. What do you think folk? Is it feasible, and usefull? Maybe, an alternative idea?

[Bestatte]

No, no, and a thousand times no on the newbie channel. I've played games that have them. Typical newbie channel chat:

[Newbie] OMG liek i jsut fell in a hole 2 sw of oasis someone save me
[Helper] Please don't discuss IC info on this channel.
[Newbie2] i have a sunpommled sword i stole from a soldier were do i sell it
[Helper] Please don't discuss IC info on this channel.
[Newbie] d00d u are so lame if u don't wanna here it turn off newbiechat
[Newbie3] **SELLING*** 4x crit-padded leather hauberk, 200 sids

Please...for all that is good, AND evil in Armageddon, no.

[Cavus]

Lol, that's true. I did not think this kind of stupidness. It can really screw up.  :roll:

[Incognito]

I've been a Helper for a considerable time now, and do get email queries from time to time. I'm completely open to taking in newbies/semi-newbies as mentees. No harm in giving it a shot, to begin with. If we come across any hurdles I guess we can deal with them at that time ;)

The issue about playtimes mentioned in this thread earlier isnt something I've understood though. Why do playtimes matter? A mentor/mentee relationship would be OOC and not governed by playtimes (from my understanding). Also, in most cases, it would be restricted to emails or IM's on the outside.

It would be a very bad idea to let this relationship move into an IC perspective. I personally do not see any advantages to a mentor and mentee being online together anyways. Perhaps the absolute first time the newbie PC logs into Arm, it might be marginally useful for the Helper to show him/her around - but after that, there would/should be no cause to meet in-game.

[Nidhogg]

It's not a matter of -playtimes- meshing that concerns me, but if one prefers to communicate IMs online times do matter.


When I was a new player I would play with my browser open to the helpfiles. I had resources I could email, but sometimes you need  help fairly immediately. If I'd had a mentor I'd have liked for her/him to be accessable at those times.

[Vanth]

While I don't think this is a bad idea, I think it's really up to the players to find themselves a helper/mentor.  

I think this is more useful for several reasons: some (most) helpers have special areas of knowledge and/or have areas they don't know about.  If my expertise is hunters and mercenaries and I haven't played outside Tuluk in over a year, I may not be very helpful to someone starting in the 'rinth as a pickpocket.  Two more reasons to pick your own helper: online times and mode of communication.  If I only have Yahoo Messenger and play American primetime, and my helper only has AIM and is based in Australia, I'm not going to get the real-time help I might sometimes need.

Also, not everyone who creates an account ever actually plays.  Some people click the telnet link from TMC, or just enter the port number into their client at TMS, enter, create an account...then give up before creating a character.  Over 100 new accounts were created in the last week alone.  Are all those people playing?  No.  If they were, and were split between our 40 helpers...can you imagine the imminent burnout?

(usual disclaimer: this is only my opinion and may not reflect that of other staff members)

[Irulan]

I made a similar suggestion last year sometime (astilwel was me)...
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=37072&highlight=#37072

I still agree that having a mentor for newbies is a good idea. I remember my newbie days (not to say that I'm the expert player now), and I remember just not quite getting it, despite reading and rereading the help files. The thing that helped me the most was being able to ask someone questions and getting a response that related to the problems I was having figuring out the code or whatever.

So, yah, I am pro-mentorship, and would love to offer to be a mentor to some hapless newbie if they would have it.  :roll:

[killa]

i say a small trainning room that teaches you how to play and in the newbie spawn at each starting zone have a map of the city that u can look at

[sjanimal]

One of the reasons why I like the mentor idea so well is because I want someone that I can look up to and work with to improve my role play skillz.  I get feedback from the staff sometimes, and find it really helpful.  However staff members are often too busy to give me the level of supervision I want (need?  =-)  )   .
As far as helperz go....I found them to be very helpful about giving me advice on how to get started....how to emote....how to learn the basics.  But they haven't always been able to answer my more advanced questions, nor would it always be appropriate to share with them.

I'd rather have kind of a Big Brother/Big Sister program  where I can roleplay with someone who has mad skillz and learn from them.  Get feedback from someone who's opinion actually interests me rather than random/disjointed feedback.

[Tamarin]

I really, really, really don't think that good roleplaying can be taught.  I think you can teach someone how to not roleplay -badly-, and how to interact with the game world in general, but teaching good roleplaying?  Naw...it's too subjective.

I dunno...I like how helpers work.  I think that under the new website design, helpers should maybe just be emphasized more than they currently are.

[Graydread]

I Beg to disagree, Tamarin. Roleplaying can be taught. Why do I think this? Not because I'm some kind of ace RPer, I'm not, but I do have a background in Improv Theatre. Have a look at Keith Johnstone's Impro - it sets out a number of basic principles and techniques for improvising - things like accepting offers, avoiding blocks, listening, creating scenes - and these techniques can be and are taught to actors every day.

Is there a reason why Armers should be different? IMHO, providing someone is willing to learn, they can leap ahead of those relying on simple experience by being trained. To me that seems like the strength of the mentorship/training room concept - better RPing for everyone in Zalanthas. What do others think?

[Tamarin]

I agree, the basic principles of improvisation can be taught...hell, I'm studying jazz, and every year I take an improv course.  They teach us techniques to use during improv, but just because someone knows what they are, doesn't mean they are a good RPer.  Knowing the basics of RP interaction that you just described, I think, would make one a passable RPer at best.

[Graydread]

just because someone knows what they are, doesn't mean they are a good RPer. Knowing the basics of RP interaction that you just described, I think, would make one a passable RPer at best.

You're right. Simply knowing something isn't the same as being able to do it. But isn't that exactly where a mentor or a training room could really benefit newbies (such as myself :lol: )? Training to use this knowledge with a teacher or coach can be more effective than simple trial and error in game. God knows, I could do with some training right now! This is one challenging world you've got here!! :wink:

[Bestatte]

Graydread, something you (or anyone else) can do in lieu of a "training room":

First, poke around the town you're in, read the room descriptions, find one that seems to be uninhabited (by VNPCs) or inhabited by people -other- than the law-enforcing types or those who might be upset if you do something bad (so don't go into an NPC-run shop). Some little alcove somewhere, or a vacant apartment that has its door opened, or an abandoned building, etc. etc. etc.

Then, find yourself a mentor who has AIM or some other IM system that you can talk to "live".

Then, while you're in the uninhabited room, set up a scene for yourself. I'm not sure how the staff would respond to this, but perhaps a "wish" to let them know you're just practicing with various commands and don't want to disrupt RP of others will be helpful.

Then practice with emotes first. Get that bad boy out of the way, so you can get a feel for how it's all implemented in the game. I found it VERY difficult to try and emote properly when I first started, because I was surrounded by other PCs, which meant other players were watching me and that was intimidating.

Pick an object in the room (example: a table in the corner) or an object in your inventory (your pack) - and emote your ever-lovin brains out in reaction to the object's existence. Make it mundane, make it fancy, it doesn't matter. Just so you can get a chance to use all the different emote commands without people looking at you funny.

This is gonna be -totally- OOC, unless you can come up with a reason why your character keeps messing around with his pack, heh.

Practice stand and sit emotes, practice resting, learn the habit of typing "look tables" and "sit at 3" - experiment with keywords, experiment with sheathing/drawing, all those things that your character might do that doesn't involve another character (whether PC, NPC, or virtual).

Use your helper for suggestions on things to try, send him the line showing what you typed to create an emote, ask him for feedback on the line, even ask him what his character would see if he was in the room watching you emote whatever you emoted.

I did this on occasion in my first couple of weeks playing and it really did help me out.

[Graydread]

Thanks Bestatte, I'll definately do this. Although, I have to say that I'm leery of going for walks with PCs - heard too many stories of innocent newbies being lured into dard alleys and then murdered. On a more general note, while what you suggest will certainly work, wouldn't a more structured mentoring  and training system be a benefit to all newbies?

[Bestatte]

We have one, it's just not implemented within the game itself. My suggestions were for the present time - if the staff chooses to implement something that will work in-game later, that would be good too. Just - not an OOC "channel" - those things give me the heebiejeebies.

As for walking around, try to stick fairly close to the main strip. In Allanak I can think of a few places, in Tuluk not as many but still plenty. None are "secret" but all are (for the most part) not common spots you'd find other PCs or NPCs hanging out (mostly because they're boring, not because of any built-in danger).

[sjanimal]

*bump*