Fake Names

[Kank with a Fake Name]

When  PCs give Fake names, which I agree with totally, because ICly you would not know
the difference, after some time of using it, do PCs like that automatically get it added to their
keywords or not? It becomes a pain in the butt sometimes when you have been talking to
someone for a few IC months using their assumed name and can not contact them. What are
peoples thoughts on this?

[Marauder Moe]

Its not automatic.  You can wish/email to have keywords added though.  I usually throw in a few extra names in my keyword list to use as fake names at char creation, though.

[Anonymous]

Hmm Maybe you misunderstood me...

Lets see PC Kank meets PC Moe..They do not know each other by any previous engagements.
PC Kank gives PC Moe a Fake name. So PC Moe and PC Kank talk for months on end.
OOCLY PC Moe knows that is not PC Kanks real name, and has troubles contacting him.
Would it be legitimate for PC Moe to wish up to request a keyword added to PC Kank.
Does that make sense?

[Marauder Moe]

Sure, give it a try.  Can't hurt to ask nicely.

edit: That is to say, yes, asking the staff to give him an extra keyword if he's shown a trend of using it as a name sounds reasonable to me.

[Tamarin]

I reaaaaaaaaaaaaly don't think asking for someone -else- to have a keyword added is appropriate.  That negates the whole point of being deceptive.  No, no, no, no, no.

[Spud]

I think this is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. How could you ask for a keyword for someone, thats just...no.

[Marauder Moe]

If he is using the name repeatedly he should have asked to have it added himself.  But since he hasn't, I see nothing wrong with someone else who's been impacted by that oversight to drop a note to the staff about it.

[Krath]

If he is using the name repeatedly he should have asked to have it added himself.  But since he hasn't, I see nothing wrong with someone else who's been impacted by that oversight to drop a note to the staff about it.

My Thoughts exactly. If someone tells everyone their name is Luke Skywalker, for
time on end, regardless if they are being deceptive or not, people are going to associate that
person with the name they have given.  So maybe it was not in his keywords initially, but if
several people begin to use that name, and it is common knowledge that is what he is  
to be called, then Yes I think it should be added.  Explain to me how it is not roleplaying
correctly?

[Seeker]

This is squarely in the dicey area of game mechanics and the strange, unfathomable nature of the Unseen Way.

Until staff speak on it, I agree with Marauder Moe and Krath.  Send a note.
Staff will make the call.


Seeker

[Tamarin]

Anyone who gives a fake name isn't likely giving it to -everyone-.  They are probably giving a different fake name to each person they come in contact with, as to prevent their name actually spreading to a significant amount of people.  I can't see a reason why someone would intentionally give a fack name to a lot of people - they can figure out who you are by your sdesc keywords alone.  When giving a fake name is useful is when your PC typically wears a cloak to conceal his/her features from everyone else.  In this scenario, I really think it's stupid to be able to ask to have someone's keywords modified.

[Krath]

Anyone who gives a fake name isn't likely giving it to -everyone-.  They are probably giving a different fake name to each person they come in contact with, as to prevent their name actually spreading to a significant amount of people.  I can't see a reason why someone would intentionally give a fack name to a lot of people - they can figure out who you are by your sdesc keywords alone.  When giving a fake name is useful is when your PC typically wears a cloak to conceal his/her features from everyone else.  In this scenario, I really think it's stupid to be able to ask to have someone's keywords modified.

I think, And you know you are my boy Tamarin, that if you give a Keyword to someone and you
have something of interest to them, they are going to tell people about you.  Kinda like the ripple
affect. All it takes is one person to get a good look at you then describe you to other people and
give them the name you have given them.  I do not think that if it is just a fake name between
two pcs(IE only one person uses the fake name to interact with you) that it should be added,
but if the common populace, and majority of the PCs in that area do know what you look like
and associate your looks with a name, then I believe it should be added. You dig?

[Vanth]

This is just my opinion, and does not necessarily reflect that of the rest of the staff, but...

If someone is giving out a fake name which is not in their keywords, especially if they are always masked/hooded, that seems to me like using ooc mechanics to avoid being able to be Wayed.  And that makes me feel  :evil: .  You don't want staff feeling  :evil: .

If it's just a one-time thing, like "Uh, my name is uh...Ferdy, yeah, that's it, Ferdy" then that's cool.  But if you're consistently giving the name out, have it added to your keywords before we do it for you.

....On the flip side of the coin, if you Way someone who is always masked or hooded, and you happen to see their true sdesc, pretend you didn't.  Because otherwise I'm going to think you used ooc mechanics to find out ic information, and that also makes me feel  :evil:  (see above).

[Krath]

.On the flip side of the coin, if you Way someone who is always masked or hooded, and you happen to see their true sdesc, pretend you didn't.  Because otherwise I'm going to think you used ooc mechanics to find out ic information, and that also makes me feel  :evil:  (see above).

This right here....Awesome

[Cuusardo]

I have met someone who gave me a name that was not a keyword.  I wished up to have that name the person gave added to their keywords.  *shrug*

[Tamarin]

Alright, Krath.  I will agree with you on that, but I suppose I am an infrequent user of non-keyword names.  When I -do- do this, it's because I am up to some sort of criminal activity.  I also inform the person I gave the clandestine name to that I do not wish this information spread around.  Should I hear anyone other than that particular person speaking the name, you better believe a world of hurt is coming to that person.  

But that's just me.

[Krath]

Alright, Krath.  I will agree with you on that, but I suppose I am an infrequent user of non-keyword names.  When I -do- do this, it's because I am up to some sort of criminal activity.  I also inform the person I gave the clandestine name to that I do not wish this information spread around.  Should I hear anyone other than that particular person speaking the name, you better believe a world of hurt is coming to that person.  

But that's just me.

Alright I agree with you as well. Cool we are on the same page now.

[Tamarin]

Definitely.

Widespread use of a non-keyword name: add the word to keyword list

Secretive, explicit, non-supposed-to-be-spread use of a non-keyword name: priceless.  I mean, don't add it.

[Bestatte]

To some measure I disagree with Vanth. Hypothetical situation:

Hooded veiled figure sits at the bar. He starts talking about things that are of great interest to you. You chat him up, he tells you his name is Exor. Exor is also one of his keywords. You look at him and see his entire description, but you're RPing this out so this is what your *character* sees (remember he's sitting right next to you at the bar, and facing you):

He's very tall, thin-boned but with a potbelly. You can tell that his nose is pretty big because his veil sticks out where his nose would be. He has very light green eyes that curve slightly upward on the outer corners, and on his ungloved hands you can see dark brown skin.

Later that week, you contact Exor via the way. You get the image of the potbellied green-eyed half-elf.

What part of this should I NOT recognize? I might not notice immediately that he's a half-elf up close and personal, but I -would- notice right away his extreme height and his almond-shaped eyes. I would ALSO notice that -if- he had pointed ears, they're not big enough to poke through his hood.

So why should I NOT recognize his sdesc when I way him? My answer: There is no reason why I shouldn't recognize him. He's easily recognizeable as far as I'm concerned.

[Krath]

Ah..Interestined question bestatte. When Dealing with the Way and races..If they are a
Humanoid, IE Human, Half-elf, or even Elf. I will just accept them all the same as a
familiar mind.  You can still see their eyes underneath the HOOD of their cloak, as well
as facial features, and even what they look like..THink of hooded cloaks as Hoodie sweatshirts.
If the hood is up, you can still see what their face looks like, hair, eyes ETC. You can see
their body structure based on how the cloak rest on them, IE, Heavy-Set, Muscular, skinny,
fat, etc etc.  So I would just treat it accordingly.

[House Rising Sun]

I haven't created a new pc in quite a while so I may be mistaken, but as I recall you are not required to put your pc's name in the keyword list. Yes/no?

If that's true, let's not go around forcing people to add new aliases when they start using them regularly.

[Larrath]

When making a new character, you are allowed to add additional keywords.
Your short description and the PC's name are automatically added to this list, and this is why people are asked not to include their 'true' name in it.

It is perfectly possible to add just about as many keywords as you please during the application process, though.  It's as easy as thinking about it for a couple of minutes before submitting the character.



About the recognition bit, by the way:
Let's go with Exor the half-elf again.  Let's say that he's got his green eyes and his pointed ears that got noticed for some peculiar reason, and that it was very easy to understand that he was tall but had a potbelly and wasn't keeping a gurth inside his cloak.
What if Exor's sdesc was "the half-elf with the hawk-tattooed ass"?

Suddenly you'd recognize him whenever you saw him?
I strongly disagree with Bestatte - it may be possible to notice an especially long nose through a veil and a hood, but there are many people with long noses out there.  Knowing that this Exor has a really long nose doesn't mean you should immediately point him out because he's the only PC with 'long-nosed' in his sdesc, or that your PC should even recognize him if they saw him without a hood.


Hoods on cloaks are nothing like hoods on hoodies.  They are a lot deeper, because they need to guard the sides of the face from blowing sand.  Many cloaks are also made in order to obscure and hide someone's face, and these are hoods that can probably reach past the eyes if you stretched them a little.

The biggest thing I am talking against, and I do not believe Bestatte endorses this, is when people hear the name of Rinthi McFish and immediately contact him so they can point him out the next time he sneaks twenty cords away in a crowded street.

[Krath]

When making a new character, you are allowed to add additional keywords.
Your short description and the PC's name are automatically added to this list, and this is why people are asked not to include their 'true' name in it.

It is perfectly possible to add just about as many keywords as you please during the application process, though.  It's as easy as thinking about it for a couple of minutes before submitting the character.



About the recognition bit, by the way:
Let's go with Exor the half-elf again.  Let's say that he's got his green eyes and his pointed ears that got noticed for some peculiar reason, and that it was very easy to understand that he was tall but had a potbelly and wasn't keeping a gurth inside his cloak.
What if Exor's sdesc was "the half-elf with the hawk-tattooed ass"?

Suddenly you'd recognize him whenever you saw him?
I strongly disagree with Bestatte - it may be possible to notice an especially long nose through a veil and a hood, but there are many people with long noses out there.  Knowing that this Exor has a really long nose doesn't mean you should immediately point him out because he's the only PC with 'long-nosed' in his sdesc, or that your PC should even recognize him if they saw him without a hood.


Hoods on cloaks are nothing like hoods on hoodies.  They are a lot deeper, because they need to guard the sides of the face from blowing sand.  Many cloaks are also made in order to obscure and hide someone's face, and these are hoods that can probably reach past the eyes if you stretched them a little.

The biggest thing I am talking against, and I do not believe Bestatte endorses this, is when people hear the name of Rinthi McFish and immediately contact him so they can point him out the next time he sneaks twenty cords away in a crowded street.

OOOooooOOO :shock:  I was trumped! Here Here, Thanks Man, Very informative
and I learned something new.

[Anonymous]

If it's just a one-time thing, like "Uh, my name is uh...Ferdy, yeah, that's it, Ferdy" then that's cool.  But if you're consistently giving the name out, have it added to your keywords before we do it for you.

Perfect. I'd don't know Vanth's position, of course, but I'd include even "consistently giving the name out" to one other person, in utmost secrecy. They should be able to reach you through that name, even if it doesn't identify you to other people.

[Bestatte]

About the recognition bit, by the way:
Let's go with Exor the half-elf again.  Let's say that he's got his green eyes and his pointed ears that got noticed for some peculiar reason, and that it was very easy to understand that he was tall but had a potbelly and wasn't keeping a gurth inside his cloak.
What if Exor's sdesc was "the half-elf with the hawk-tattooed ass"?

Suddenly you'd recognize him whenever you saw him?

Since I'd never seen his ass, then no of course I wouldn't know it was him. In fact, I might even psi whoever this "other" Exor was that I got in touch with, and ask him if he is the same Exor I saw with the long nose and green eyes...because - I would NOT recognize that sdesc at all. It isn't his ass I recognize, it's focusing my mind on those pale green eyes, the long nose, the extreme height, and the name combined that is letting me contact him in the first place. The fact that his green eyes and potbelly aren't part of the sdesc you suggest is *IRRELEVENT*. The fact that I CAN see his eyes and the shape of his face and the bulging belly is the important part.

Of course, if I had seen his ass, then yes - I would definitely recognize the image immediately.

Hoods on cloaks are nothing like hoods on hoodies.  They are a lot deeper, because they need to guard the sides of the face from blowing sand.  Many cloaks are also made in order to obscure and hide someone's face, and these are hoods that can probably reach past the eyes if you stretched them a little.

The biggest thing I am talking against, and I do not believe Bestatte endorses this, is when people hear the name of Rinthi McFish and immediately contact him so they can point him out the next time he sneaks twenty cords away in a crowded street.

If you can see OUT of your hood, then I can see IN. That's all I'm gonna say about that.

[sacac]

The only problem I see with keywords added for future usage is this, If I am trying to contact someone else with their name and then get you. It kinda makes things weird, especially when you have been looking for someone with that name with your description for a little while (Yes, it has happened to me, I just forgot about that all together)

[Larrath]

If you can see OUT of your hood, then I can see IN. That's all I'm gonna say about that.

And if I can see out of my mask, you can see in it?
I think we'll just have to agree on disagreeing here.

[Agent_137]

If you can see OUT of your hood, then I can see IN. That's all I'm gonna say about that.

And if I can see out of my mask, you can see in it?
I think we'll just have to agree on disagreeing here.

Going to have to stand with Larrath on this one, kind of. Yes, it's possible to see a face under a hood, but you'll have to be pretty close, and make it obvious you're looking. Code kind of supports this interpretation. Hurray.

[Bestatte]

I can see your eyes. The only way I would -not- be able to see your eyes, is if they were obscured, or if it was dark and I couldn't see much further than the length of my arm anyway. And if your eyes are obscured, then you can't see past whatever is obscuring them.

Yes, these main description masks will hide everything, but they also hide everything ELSE in your main description, including whatever you put in it to describe your arms and legs and back and chest and feet. And yet - it's just a mask, that is worn over the face. Those main desc masks are the exception to the rule, and it's a code limitation and just plain doesn't count in any of these situations.

Normal masks (there are several for sale) show that they have eye-holes for the wearer to see out of. And that means I can see behind those eye-holes as well. I can also see your potbelly, and the long brown hair curling out from under them, and the shape and color of your neck if you aren't covering it with a collar. I can also see very long pointed ears sticking out from behind the mask, since it's only covering the face. And in some cases, I can even see your lips, so if they're extremely full, or slash-scarred, or scabrous, then don't count on me pretending I don't notice them...if your mask has an opening for the mouth.

Perhaps you don't read the descriptions of all these clothings and coverings, and perhaps you don't realize that they do NOT hide your face in most cases. And perhaps you don't even realize that some of these veils are SEE-THROUGH. But I read them, and I pay attention, and I notice, and I RP accordingly.

I hope you will all take that into consideration next time you go screaming "TWINK" when you were seen and identified while wearing a hood and a see-through veil in the middle of broad daylight on the city street.

[PantoufleNOTLOGGEDIN]

Fake names are no different than keywords.  If someone provides you with a name that is not part of their keywords, tough luck.  Use one of their existing keywords and deal with it.

[Angela Christine]

I think it is only an issue if people are trying to use code to get around the Way.  Nobody is impervious to psionics, unless perhaps you are a mindbender.  If you want to keep pesky aquaintences out of your mind, then work on maxing out Barrier -- eventually it does become a very useful skill.  
If I've got something to hide I use  Barrier everytime I see a PC or NPC Templar.  If I'm trying to hide (either to escape or to set an ambush) I use Barrier to decrease the chance of my persuer/prey detecting my presence through the Way (yeah, codedly it doesn't work like that, so what?)  There are lots of good reasons to use barrier, and barrier is the proper way to duck psychic communication.


AC

[Gaare]

I guess when PC could manage to get someone's mind,  gets at least- a piece of idea what of that person looks like. There was a post recently about names, descs. and their power in psionics and magic.

If a PC gets  in contact with a tall figure in cloak with dark veil's mind, then he gets a brief image of that figure.  Probably that image will not be wearing a cloak or a veil since that's an abstract image in one's mind.

There was a great explanation of "talking via way" in one of DARK SUN books, but could not find it though.

[Pantoufle]

Using a fake, non-coded name/keyword to avoid being contacted doesn't work.  You can still contact someone via their short description.  Heck!  You can even contact people on some occasions using their hooded short description.

[Angela Christine]

Heck!  You can even contact people on some occasions using their hooded short description.

Not if they own more than one cloak.  A desert cammo duster for the desert, a dark hooded cloak for the 'rinth, a dusty brown dustcloak for the Gaj, an rock grey greatcloak for the Bard's Barrel, a rusty brown cowel for Luir's, a colourfully embroidered cloak for Tuluk, etc., or they just buy a new cloak every few weeks and sell the old ones.  You could be aquainted with a person for years and never get a persistant keyword to identify them with, despite the fact that you ought to know them well enough to attempt contact.  Ok, you could try "figure" but you'll get plenty of wrong numbers with that one.  


AC

[Pantoufle]

Not if they own more than one cloak. A desert cammo duster for the desert, a dark hooded cloak for the 'rinth, a dusty brown dustcloak for the Gaj, an rock grey greatcloak for the Bard's Barrel, a rusty brown cowel for Luir's, a colourfully embroidered cloak for Tuluk, etc., or they just buy a new cloak every few weeks and sell the old ones. You could be aquainted with a person for years and never get a persistant keyword to identify them with, despite the fact that you ought to know them well enough to attempt contact. Ok, you could try "figure" but you'll get plenty of wrong numbers with that one.

You forgot the dusty sweat-stained stained bloodied new used torn worn leather and sandcloth hooded cloak embroidered in gaudy, horribly tasteless ruby red scorpions wearing a veil laced with<edited by staff>  sweat-stained wyverns.

In any event, young lady, the scenario you describe above is a prime example of how to avoid people in game.  There is nothing unrealistic about it.  If you don't know their name, and scarcely what they look like, contacting them should be difficult.  In this case, it's not supposed to be easy.  Therefore, I don't see that providing fake, non-coded keywords/names is bad form on an OOC level.

[Larrath]

The one problem--and this happened to me once--is that people will just go "tell Ferdy -nodding Nice to meetcha, Ferdy!" and then suddenly decide that there's just something about you that they don't quite trust, but they can't get their finger on it.

If people actually call you by it, it should be a keyword.  If it's a one-time fake alias that you dished out to get rid of someone, it shouldn't be.

[Angela Christine]

In any event, young lady, the scenario you describe above is a prime example of how to avoid people in game.  There is nothing unrealistic about it.  If you don't know their name, and scarcely what they look like, contacting them should be difficult.  In this case, it's not supposed to be easy.  Therefore, I don't see that providing fake, non-coded keywords/names is bad form on an OOC level.

It is possible to contact people without having seen them naked.  It is possible for blind people to contact people (and they've never seen anyone).  Therefore it isn't purely a visual thing.  Unless it is a magickal cloak, no cloak will disguise your mind, your essence, your voice, your manner of movement, or your "personal scent" so it should be possible to form a clear mental schema of someone without knowing what colour clothes they are wearing today.  You might have an ale and do a little trading with Ferdy in the Gaj while he is wearing his dusty, dust colored dustcloak a couple times a week for years, but if he changes into is red cape his mind is completely alien?

Personally, I think that providing only "false" keywords to people you have interacted with several times, for the purpose of making yourself psionically unavailable, boarders on code abuse.

The reason I don't like it is because it is an OOC stratagy that works equally well for (or against) the newly spawned half-giant who can only successfully contact 1 time out of 10 on a good day as it does the 80 day Psionicist who can make Tektolnes Himself cluck like a chicken.  They aren't using any mental skill to disguise the mind, and that is unfair.


AC

[sarahjc]

I think AC hit the nail on the head.  I mean yeah, people are looking for who they know you to be.

But here is something fun to toss out:

Lets say that my PC does a bad thing.. A very bad thing and he runs away.. and lives. He goes to another city, uses a different name, wears different clothes, cuts his hair and grows a beard. Just to make things fun, lets say he gets into a fight with a tembo and his face gets mauled as well.

So now Bill "the green-eyed, tribal braided man" is now "the bearded, green-eyed man".  Lets say an IC couple years goes by, Bill  (now known as Steve) gets into that fight and is now known as "The bearded, Scar-faced man".  So now Steve is formally someone different. He has stopped using the name Bill all together. Hell, he doesn't even look like that old Bill except for a tattoo or his build and height.

Can he get his old name taken off his Key word list? The player has gone through major changes not to be recognized as the old Bill. But if someone where to contact Bill. They would still get him.  

Now perhaps if someone were to look at Bill close up they would see some resemblance to the man they once knew.  But just by contact "Bill" via the way, you have an Idea about what to look for. I would just like to hear opinions on the opposing side of things.

Do you just pretend that you are seeing the old Bill?

[Tamarin]

I have tried to get a complete overhaul of my character, including having the original name taken off.  Everything else was fine (mdesc change, sdesc change, new keywords), but I was told that removing a name is not realistic, because a) that PC has had that name his whole life, and no matter how much time passes, it will still feel familiar to him b) it would be like starting a character from scratch, but with really really really high skills.