A pet peeve in regards to bulletin boards

[jstorrie]

Posts like 'Rumours of a new Oashi' or 'A new Chosen Lord seen at the Sanctuary'.

Just because you start playing a character, that does not mean they're -new-, unless you've special-apped for a newborn child.  If your character has had some reason to be outside of the public eye and that has now ended, fair enough, but at least post something to that effect.  If you're playing some thirty-year-old blue-robe, odds are you've been walking around the city for a while already, yeah?

These 'hey i'm new' posts are both jarring and nonsensical - things I would generally not expect from people playing sensitive roles.  Shape up!

[Armaddict]

Generally they are new to the populace that sees them.

Thus...new.

[jstorrie]

They -aren't- new in most cases.  For whatever reason, they're being noticed now, but a fourty-year-old noble is not new to the city in any case, unless he's been cooped up in his estate since the day he was born.

[Xerokine]

Perhaps you didn't clearly read Armaddict's post..


They are new to the populace of whichever city-state..

In any case, I would rather they post letting everyone know that character is available so your able to find this person if your in need of something. Specially with Merchant House family members.

[Gaare]

Many nobles do not leave their estates through out their years more then a few times.. and why would they leave anyway?

I guess almost all noble players end their backgrounds with a reason why they are leaving their well protected, beatiful estates and begin to interact with common folk and other nobles in city property.

A new noble in the city property is a real news for citizens on the other hand.

[Bestatte]

That doesn't make them a "new" noble, or "new" templar. It makes them a 20, or 30-something year old noble or templar, who existed as a VNPC up until this time and is now allowing the public the privilege of his existence.

New doesn't mean "not seen before." It means "didn't exist before." It is the opposite of old. Not the opposite of commonly known among the populace.

Personally it kinda jars my senses as well when I see a post saying "New Templar looking for recruits," but it isn't a pet peeve, so I usually just smirk to myself, at the keyboard, and move on to more interesting things (like the actual content of the rumor).

[Larrath]

I don't think these should be a rumor either.  There are many 'new' VNPC nobles that appear every month, another Lord Fancypants isn't such a big deal.  This is doubly true for templars, since there's one around every corner.

[SRB]

Go easy on the players. They are merely letting their presence be known. Unless this somehow is detrimental to the game, I see no problem with it.

[Spoon]

In an IC context, I think it's fine. It's the kind of rumours your likely to hear. If your sick of it, then have your character rant about it to the vNPC's telling you.

[Bestatte]

Like I said, it isn't a pet peeve. And it's only the word "New" that's jarring. Since, well, they're not new templars. They're not even new to my character. Some of them are old to my character. Some are young. But none of them are new, because none of them are infants. And none of them were "not templars" until the moment they stepped out in public..so they're not "new" templars. Templars who are new to being seen in public, sure! But not "New Templars." It's a matter of syntax.

[SRB]

It's a matter of syntax.

That's just it. It doesn't matter.

If you find something as trivial as the word "new" jarring, I suggest a blunt.

[Bestatte]

And if you feel the need to recommend I imbibe illegal drugs to eradicate an opinion that isn't the same as your opinion, I suggest..that you not recommend it anymore. Thanks.

[jhunter]

While I noticed the post your referring to...and thought the same thing...it's just not really that big of a deal. That's why I never bothered to say anything about it. I know what's meant and what the reality of it is.

*shrug*

[EvilRoeSlade]

I don't think people should post about their new character at all, regardless of how they describe it.

[Anonymous]

Personally it kinda jars my senses as well when I see a post saying "New Templar looking for recruits," but it isn't a pet peeve, so I usually just smirk to myself, at the keyboard, and move on to more interesting things (like the actual content of the rumor).

[Xerokine]

Oh all things I'd have thought you would have whinned and cried about players posting stupid shit about being an independant <choose a profession> looking for hire. I would rather see a post about a newly seen Templar/Noble figure rather than something useless such as the independant example.

[Angela Christine]

Maybe he just graduated from Templar University, and therefore is newly a Templar?  You aren't born a Templar, at least I don't think you are.  


AC

[Gaare]

I don't think these should be a rumor either.  There are many 'new' VNPC nobles that appear every month, another Lord Fancypants isn't such a big deal.  This is doubly true for templars, since there's one around every corner.

Eh.. VNPCs have their own boards that we can not read, in other words, just exits in abstract sence or...

Let's hope PC noble appearance rumors are not written in their IC  boards, that would be really waste of time, but seeing some nobles in boards is neither good nor bad in my opinion. Simply their choice.

[da mitey warrior]

I think it's alright.  Most new characters like that start off with some sort of recent promotion in their background.  A noble might have just been appointed to some public position, or a templar might just have graduated from templar university, or a merchant might have just been given the job by their house.  It isn't that big a deal.  

Maybe we should have VPC posts from the virtual houses?  Did you hear about the new noble in house Jal?  Lord Baher Jal has just been put in charge of the sewer system and he's looking for a few good men to help fight off the rats and roaches.  He usually hangs out at the Obsidian Vestric tavern and will be happy to speak to you.  Finger wigglers need not apply.

[Bestatte]

But that doesn't make the Jal noble a new noble. He was BORN a noble. It makes him a noble, who has been a noble all of his life, and who has also become the newest guardian of the sewers. So - he's a new guardian, not a new noble.

That's the point that is being made.

[wizturbo]

This topic is petty enough to receive the coveted "QQ" stamping.

-QQ

[Krath]

I dunno what you are thinking, but tell me how it is taking away from the game. Most of you
(Commoners) Never set foot within the estate of the Nobility or Templarate, so you do not even
have an idea of who is who. When it says a New Templar, it means New to your PC and the
PC's in the clan that are not noble or templarate's face.  So just roll with it, they are being
informative, for your convience, and it is VERY ic to do so as they are now your new superior,
whom you will directly report to, so you might as well hear the rumor about a new face.

[Anonymous]

I don't think the problem is that there is a rumor, just that someone says 'New Noble' in their post, since it is incorrect.  It's sort of silly to assume they've spent the last 20-40 years hiding their existence from the populace and they weren't just born so they aren't new.

[My 2 sids]

As to if it is or is not appropriate to refer to people as new I'll ask just one question; how many have used the response, "I've just been sent from the estate to fill this role." Or something like that?  Nine times out of ten I'd say you at least will find a noble or whatever new to their position.  

All right, so if all these important people have been important forever.  Doesn't that mean people should recognize them?  Not all important people have guards or wear their signet ring all the time.  There are very few opportunities for common characters to walk up to a rich looking person and ask, "Say, are you that noble from house X I've heard so much about?  What's you're name again?"  

All I'm saying is that I think people are making way too big of deal about posts like this.


_________________________

Ah, I'll just second Krath's last post

[Anonymous]

All I'm saying is that I think people are making way too big of deal about posts like this.

Welcome to Intenet Discussion Boards!

Seriously, the tone of 'New Borsail Noble' posts and what is being said in those posts has nothing to do with a new position of responsibility and more along the lines of it just being a new character.

Anyways, to those of you making it a mission to point out how petty this discussion is:  Thanks, here I was thinking it was a huge deal and was in constant communication with the staff to help curtail this behavior.  Now that I've stopped calling for the immediate banishment of players who make 'New Noble' posts can we have permission to at least talk about it?

[JollyGreenGiant]

There are plenty of alternates to the "new noble" post.  Putting up a post that Lord Grumblecakes is looking to hire an aide, for example, lets people know about Lord Grumblecakes while not suffering from the problems of the traditional "new noble" post.  This is a pretty good standby, since -most- "new" nobles, templars, and merchants are going to need to hire an aide, a guard, some hunters, a bard, a basketweaver, or something.  Maybe you're not hiring anyone; the moral of the story is still that there are ways to get your name on the board without resorting to a largely OOC rumor post.  I personally don't like to see posts about how Lord Grumblecakes has been seen around the city talking to all the tip-top templars, muckety-mucking merchants, and natty nobility - get out there and actually DO all of those things, and the rumors will take care of themselves.

[Laeris]

New doesn't mean "not seen before." It means "didn't exist before." It is the opposite of old. Not the opposite of commonly known among the populace.

Actually, the word new does mean "not seen before".  In fact:

new    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (n, ny)
adj. new·er, new·est

1.  Still fresh: a new coat of paint.
2.  Never used or worn before now: a new car; a new hat.
3.  Just found, discovered, or learned: new information.
4.  Not previously experienced or encountered; novel or unfamiliar: ideas new to her.
5.  Different from the former or the old: the new morality.
6.  Recently obtained or acquired: new political power; new money.
7.  Additional; further: new sources of energy.
8.  Recently arrived or established in a place, position, or relationship: new neighbors; a new president.
9.  Changed for the better; rejuvenated: The nap has made a new person of me.
10.  Being the later or latest in a sequence: a new edition.
11.  Currently fashionable: a new dance.
13.  New In the most recent form, period, or development.
14.  Inexperienced or unaccustomed: new at the job; new to the trials of parenthood.
15.  Having been made or come into being only a short time ago; recent: a new law.

So yeah, I don't see anything wrong with someone putting a post up about a new templar.

[Pantoufle]

New doesn't mean "not seen before." It means "didn't exist before." It is the opposite of old. Not the opposite of commonly known among the populace.

Actually, the word new does mean "not seen before". In fact:

Is it just me, or has there always been some friction between Laeris and Bestatte?  

[Bestatte]

Laeris is just bitter because I'm sixth in the region for Largest Gambling Industry, and he shows up at a lowly 676th..and is stuck in the Rejected Realms after being rejected by another region.

SUCKER!

[Bestatte]

Let's see where it fits in - the "New Noble" has arrived.


1.  Still fresh: a new coat of paint.
Nope, that isn't applicable.

2.  Never used or worn before now: a new car; a new hat.
I doubt a noble would ever admit to being used or worn, before, during, or after

3.  Just found, discovered, or learned: new information.
The fact that the Noble has arrived is certainly new, but the fact that he is a noble is not. We didn't know that he WASN'T a noble previously. So nope - not this one either.

4.  Not previously experienced or encountered; novel or unfamiliar: ideas new to her.
A noble new to the Sanctuary..yes. A new noble, no.  The newness applies to the noble's new location, not to the noble's existence. So nope on this one too.

5.  Different from the former or the old: the new morality.
Nope - doesn't apply.

6.  Recently obtained or acquired: new political power; new money.
Nobles were born that way - their position within the nobility might be new of course - but the fact that they're a noble is not.

7.  Additional; further: new sources of energy.
Nope, not this one either.

8.  Recently arrived or established in a place, position, or relationship: new neighbors; a new president.
Iffy - possible, but not really because they're not new to the city, or to their position as a noble, or to their status within nobility as superior to commoners (relationship).

9.  Changed for the better; rejuvenated: The nap has made a new person of me.
Not really applicable, unless we knew the noble previously and can confirm that he is, in fact, changed for the better or rejuvenated.

10.  Being the later or latest in a sequence: a new edition.
Nope, again - born that way, not the latest or later in a sequence.

11.  Currently fashionable: a new dance.
Nobles are ALWAYS fashionable, so no, not this one either.

13.  New In the most recent form, period, or development.
The noble was never something other than a noble, so nope - not this one.

14.  Inexperienced or unaccustomed: new at the job; new to the trials of parenthood.
Again - born a noble, not applicable.

15.  Having been made or come into being only a short time ago; recent: a new law.
See #14 et al. Not applicable.

Out of 15 possible definitions, only one MIGHT be applicable, and even then it's kinda iffy. I'd say - being a "New Noble" is an erroneous statement.

[Laeris]

Let's see where it fits in - the "New Noble" has arrived.

4.  Not previously experienced or encountered; novel or unfamiliar: ideas new to her.
A noble new to the Sanctuary..yes. A new noble, no.  The newness applies to the noble's new location, not to the noble's existence. So nope on this one too.

I'd find this one quite likely, considering most nobles would have been shut up and away from the commoner populace until they've reached a proper age.  And as this is a new character, which none of you have had any experience with, I'd say this fits.  I'm not quite sure how you're saying that the newness applies to the noble's new location, as location has nothing to do with the definition.

Out of 15 possible definitions, only one MIGHT be applicable, and even then it's kinda iffy. I'd say - being a "New Noble" is an erroneous statement.

Out of 15 possible definitions, you only need one definition and in my opinion it fits fine.  I'd say it's not automagickally an erroneous statement, but is subject to opinion.

[Pantoufle]

Now children, let's be reasonable here.  I was just messin' around, I didn't mean to stir anything up, you know (not that I'm opposed to stirring things up).

[sarahjc]

My take on "new" people around and about.

First, yes.. they are making an announcement to the player base that a "new" Character is on the scene.

Secondly, most of the "announcement" types that I myself play, I tend to play out the fact that they really don't get out the estate/temple  much.  So they are "New" to the populace. Everyday folks would not have seen them before. They have had interior jobs.

No they are not a new person in the world,  no they are not a New Chosen person, or Templar Person, or Merchant Person. But they are new to the populace. Much like when you get a new shirt. That shirt has been around in the store a while, it has been a shirt for a while. Hell, that shirt may have been bought by someone else, worn once and then returned. But because you have never seen it before, to you, it's new.

Just like Certain Templars don't really go out all that much until they get a certain color robe.

I don't think too much about the word New in an announcement format. I just think OK.. New PC making a showing in the city.  A fresh face.


The Pink Rhino goes back to her computer and types up several new IC announcements stating New average people magically appearing in the cities across the known world.

[Xygax]

4.  Not previously experienced or encountered; novel or unfamiliar: ideas new to her.
A noble new to the Sanctuary..yes. A new noble, no.  The newness applies to the noble's new location, not to the noble's existence. So nope on this one too.

You must not be an Eagles fan.

[Agent_137]

You must not be an Eagles fan.

HAH. Bravo.

[sarahjc]

I bet she hates New Kids on the Block too..

[Malifaxis]

I read the first page.  Didn't care to read the rest.

Fucking get over it.  One three letter word is not THAT jarring.

If you can't get your little two seater RP car over the guttercurb that is the word 'new' then perhaps you need to find something new to be anal about.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I don't really give a shit how the word new is used, but I still maintain that IC bulletin boards shouldn't be used for that person.

To me, it seems reasonable to use the IC board for the following purposes.

Something interesting and noticable has happened that would cause virtual NPCs to talk about.  An after dark curfew in Allanak being ordered by a Red-robe would be all of the above.  A Red-robe ordering the arrest of dozens of commoners who are never heard from again would be interesting and noticable, but nobody would talk about it.

I don't think a "new" noble falls into this category, unless the noble causes something interesting or noticable to happen upon his arrival.  If any noble wishes to make such a post, I whole-heartedly encourage them to do exactly that.

You have a message to make to the populace at large, and you have the means to do so.  This probably means you're very rich, or a ranking officer in some military or other.

If a "new" noble has some sort of a message, then again they should definitely make a post on the IC board.

[Anonymous]

considering most nobles would have been shut up and away from the commoner populace until they've reached a proper age.

I hate/love to contradict, but this would entirely depend on the age of the character. Not every noble created is directly off the teenage assembly line. Even so, using 'new' is more than awkward. Yes, you can overlook it without paying much attention to the post; but the idea here is to alert the involved of the situation at hand. I doubt the original poster wanted to simply mock and ridicule the person for an obviously 'newbish' mistake. Acknowledging that, how did a newbie receive the position in the first place?

If I was the Immortal in charge of assigning that particular character to that particular position, I would certainly revoke the privilege and assign it to someone more worthy and able.

Semper Pax,

Dirr

[Bestatte]

I don't think it's a newbie-type mistake at all. I don't even consider it a "mistake," per se. It's a style of address I personally find jarring - to call youself a "New noble" when you are neither new to being a noble, nor new to being a noble in town (contrary to new kids on the block, where the phrase implies that the kids are new to the block, and not new kids).

I really don't think it's that big of a deal. Jarring for me personally, and obviously to a few others, but hardly worth getting upset about or challenging the RP ability of the player in question.

[Anonymous]

to call youself a "New noble" when you are neither new to being a noble, nor new to being a noble in town

Thus, the person calling himself a 'New noble' does not possess adequate knowledge of the environment; because if they did, they would not proclaim themselves 'new.' Someone who is unfamiliar or unknowledgeable of the environment is new to the environment. Therefore, this person is a newbie.

[Pantoufle]

I read the first page. Didn't care to read the rest.

Fucking get over it. One three letter word is not THAT jarring.

If you can't get your little two seater RP car over the guttercurb that is the word 'new' then perhaps you need to find something new to be anal about.

A man after my own heart Well put.

[Xygax]

I read the first page.  Didn't care to read the rest.

Fucking get over it.  One three letter word is not THAT jarring.

If you can't get your little two seater RP car over the guttercurb that is the word 'new' then perhaps you need to find something new to be anal about.

It would be nice, actually, if people wouldn't contribute (if this can be called a contribution) to threads without reading them in their entirety.

[sarahjc]

I will resort back to my shirt reference and simply state that the person may very well be "new" to the outside populace. They have always been a noble, just not one anybody in the city except maybe a few other nobles would have seen before.Thus the word "new", I think is appropriate.

If you feel this is in poor taste, that's your opinion. However, its not wrong spelling, or a wrong definition, or even syntax, its just not how you like to see things. Well wouldn't it be nice if we call see things the way you like them?? Hrm? Sorry, it just don't work that way.

Now, the argument that people should not be posting that they are now playing a Character without any other announcement. The way I view that is well, there isn't much TV on Zalanthas, nor much in the way of social events or night clubs. So if it gives people one more thing to talk about at the bar while they stare off into Idling space. A "New" Noble on the Block/in Town would be something I think people would be prone to talk about. They could pick on how they look, What F-me they were seen with?? It's a conversation starter.  It's just one more "new" thing to discuss.  Sue me.

And for this??

Thus, the person calling himself a 'New noble' does not possess adequate knowledge of the environment; because if they did, they would not proclaim themselves 'new.' Someone who is unfamiliar or unknowledgeable of the environment is new to the environment. Therefore, this person is a newbie.

And who is to say that they aren't "new" to playing a noble?? Or any PC of status? Maybe that "New" person will be using that "New" excuse for a few reasons.  Because they don't know too much about the in's and out's of being a Noble, maybe the excuse that they are young and have never left the estate grounds is a perfect reason as to why they are called "New".


And for those of your that feel it should require things such and being knocked down a few Karma points, well I think that's just silly.

[Anonymous]

And who is to say that they aren't "new" to playing a noble?? Or any PC of status? Maybe that "New" person will be using that "New" excuse for a few reasons. Because they don't know too much about the in's and out's of being a Noble, maybe the excuse that they are young and have never left the estate grounds is a perfect reason as to why they are called "New".


And for those of your that feel it should require things such and being knocked down a few Karma points, well I think that's just silly.

I agree, if the above holds true: if the characters is truly 'new' to the environment. I, also, do not know the nature of the post in question, so I cannot be judgmental, I suppose. I never proposed that the account of the player in question should be diminished in karma. I did, however, state that the above mentioned person should be relieved of the position. Frankly, I've seen some questionable behavior from various nobles in the community, so I would not be surprised if the above mentioned person is uninformed, unconditioned, and unknowledgeable of the environment. Perhaps that person is NOT a newbie per se, but certainly too new to deftly lead a clan. A noble/templar/leader of a clan should not just be an average roleplayer, they need to have the drive and the experience to provide a learning, intersting, and entertaining environment for those that fall underneath his/her/their control. They should lead by example, they should be the example, and above all - they should actively involve those under their control.

On another topic - this is my pet peeve: I somewhat feel disheartened when I see the following message in the post for a special role:
-Above all else, you should be able to play A LOT-
Yes, playing time is -extremely- important, but the immortals should not simply select accounts for a special and important role based primarily on playing time. I know I do not have -any- idea about the subject, and it's not -my- place to criticize, as the immortals do a fabulous job in keeping the game exciting and interesting. Nevertheless, I would like to see more emphasis placed on roleplay and leadership when selecting roles such as nobles/templars/sergeants, etc....
As always, Semper PAX,

Dirr

[da mitey warrior]

I suspect that immortals put "you must be able to play alot" into their adverts because often times 2 weeks into a new role a new templar/noble/whatever suddenly has no more time to log in anymore.

[Anonymous]

Yes, playing time IS important, as I stated previously, but it should not be a priority over roleplay or even leadership. That is, of course, my opinion.

Semper Pax,

Dirr

[sarahjc]

However, play time does become an issue when you have one or more clan leaders that cannot be on regularly. Then all of a sudden, people start complaining that they never see anyone from house so and so.

[Anonymous]

I concur, but I hold my argument valid.

Playing time should be a deciding factor between two exceptional candidates. Not a deciding factor altogether. I know that the immortals review different aspects of an application, but (at least to me) it seems (after observing posts for special characters) that playing time is a principle component that holds priority above all else. Once again, I'm not claiming one way or the other, this is my view.

Semper PAX,

Dirr

[Pantoufle]

Yes, playing time IS important, as I stated previously, but it should not be a priority over roleplay or even leadership. That is, of course, my opinion.

Semper Pax,

Dirr

I wholeheartedly agree.  Playing a leadership role successfully requires maturity.  Most of the mature players don't have a great deal of time to devote to playing, despite that they are more ideal candidates for the role of templar, noble, etc.  I cringe every time I see a post saying something to the effect of: must be available for 3+ hours a day.

[Mar]

I agree. Having a clan leader who is not around enough can be same stressful as do not have any. Wait, it can be -more- stressful, because people outside the clan keeps asking about your leader and you have nothing to tell them.
Of course, you can have great Noble/Templar who is not logged in -every- day, but if your only clan-leader is around only three four hours per week...  :roll:

[Angela Christine]

If there is only one templar, one Kadian merchant, one Byn Sergeant, or one Borsail noble then it doesn't matter if that one is RP god, if they can only be around a few hours a week it is going to suck.  However, if you have two or three, then it doesn't matter if one of them can only put in light hours, if they are a good RPer they can add colour and depth even if they can't preform all the "duties" the playerbase expects of leadership characters due to time constraints.  

I think there is an opportunity there.  If you have a super concept for a certain type of character but not huge amounts of play time, you may still get approved as an auxilary role, just not the main workhorse that keeps the clan running day to day.  Your IC status won't be any lower than other people of the same rank, you simply won't be put in charge of things that require constant contact.  There can be two or three nobles in one House, several templars, or even a couple merchants representing one merchant House, so the fact that there are already one or two of the type you want to play isn't necessarily a reason to give up.  Now after a cattle call ad that a new X is needed they may only want to add one of 'em at that time, but nothing stops you from waiting a month and trying again.


Just a thought.


Angela Christine

[Realedazed]

Come on folks, everyone has to learn somewhere.

I've never had a problem with it. Like many posters have said, if the Noble has not been seen, then he/she is "new' to most commoners. I look at postings like this, about merchants looking for work, etc, as if my character overheard that person hawking their wares and something similar.

This is the frist time I've seen someone complain about this subject ( I think I has been), but I've seen several IC posts like this. So, if the poster was like me - they thought  it was the norm.  I'm thinking a majority of the playerbase actually reads these boards, so maybe we will be seeing less and less of the "annoying and jarring" posts.

[Stroker]

Come on folks, everyone has to learn somewhere.

Indeed, but preferably not as a noble/templar/etc whose roleplaying becomes a paradigm by default.

Semper Pax

[jstorrie]

The same effect of these posts can easily be had by more IC, reasonable rumours. I still say that 'there's a new noble named Fancypants in town!' is unnecessarily jarring, where 'Lord Fancypants wants a new aide and is hosting a naked dance party' fits in quite a bit better.