Emotes/Thinks (from the other thread)

[Gilvar]

Just to clarify/address a few things people have said in the other thread (so not to derail im posting it here).
Roleplaying may not nescessarily be defined by the usage of emotes and thinks, but roleplaying is making your character believable as whatever your trying to portray, like acting. In Real-Life its much easier to believe an actor because you have eyes. Your always seeing them, seeing what their doing, wearing, facial expressions, etc. In a text game we are not granted that benefit. We are supplied stock messages for the majority of the time, except when the player emotes.

Emotes are visual cues that can help us visualize your text as something, making you more believable. That is why one of the deciding factors on Karma is about emoting, because its an important part of the game and something that should be done. (Not excessively by any means, but at least regularly to help everyone around you understand what your doing.)

Of course on the flip side there is the times you feel your alone and don't need to make your character believable. Well you'll find alot of the times your not alone. But alot of the time if your not emoting, even when you think your alone, its hard to believe your taking your character seriously. Like are all the times your not dealing with other people just periods of stagnation before finding more players to interact with?

Its not supposed to be.

The world is supposed to feel interactive enough that your always engaging and adding to the world with your own performance; that anyone could be watching, listening, probing your mind for the intimate thoughts (that would be fruitless with players that never think). Frankly its unrealistic not to think. In a world where people CAN read your mind, and you never know if your near someone capable, the fact that your not offering anything is bad. Not saying you have to think every moment of your life, but a person should at least offer something... project some kind of thought, at most that is like a few seconds out of your play.

But as of now, its not required you use THINK (at least as far as I know), the game is about enjoyment, and something as narrow reaching as that command won't make or break your reputation with the Staff, but the notes are nescessary for people to know who they are getting if you ever apply for a special app in a clan, or a special app in general. As I said above, its not realistic to avoid the think command, and if your wanting to play a high-profile role like a noble, or Templar, there is a much higher chance that you'll be interacting with more people edited by Xygax and you should be thinking, if not for the other players, but so that your staff members can understand your character and their possibly crazy motivations/actions.

Thats why there are account notes with "never thinks", etc.

Hope that clarifies some of the argument in the other thread, and that hopefully that topic can go back to its initial topic.
(this is also just my opinion, and not an official statement from the Staff as a whole)

[Akaramu]

Hmmm I couldnt find the other thread, then again, I'm not yet wearing my contact lenses.

This sounds a little like we are supposed to solo roleplay. Are we? I was always under the impression that solo rp is not required and lack thereof does not lower chances of getting karma. Quite frankly, I dont like solo rp at all and I'm sure many others dont, either. Knowing that it is at least semi-required would not make me happy. I've had one character who could solo entertain an entire room with VNPCs, but she was kinda special, and my other PCs tend to be more quiet.

The only exception to this is crafting / spellcasting or anything that could possibly raise a skill, where I always emote cause I'd feel like a dirty twink otherwise.  :shock:

As for thinks, I tend to prefer emoting to thinking. It is just a personal preference. I usually can imagine very well what's going on in the mind of my PC, but I am too lazy to type it out all the time, especially when I'm already busy talking and emoting and talk-emoting. I do use it once in awhile but really not often. Sorry, mindbenders.  :wink:  On the other hand, I've never played a leadership role where thinks could actually be of interest for others. When I do play one I'll certainly try to think more often, as there will be actually something to ponder. Mx poor little commonmer PCs just really dont have much of interest to think about.

Are we seriously supposed to solo rp, and think often?

[Zore]

But as of now, its not required you use THINK (at least as far as I know), the game is about enjoyment, and something as narrow reaching as that command won't make or break your reputation with the Staff, but the notes are nescessary for people to know who they are getting if you ever apply for a special app in a clan, or a special app in general.

So that there are no misunderstandings...

Is it a staff policy that the use of THINKs or lack thereof affects one's standing when it comes to special applications?

[Cuusardo]

No one is saying that you must solo RP.  What is being said is that emotes and thinks flesh out the character and give everyone (especially the IMMs) insight into its true nature.

[Gilvar]

The other thread is the one on powergaming, Akaramu, that has degraded into a bickering fight over who uses thinks and who doesn't and why, which isn't the point or purpose of that thread.

Is it a staff policy that the use of THINKs or lack thereof affects one's standing when it comes to special applications?

There is no official policy, but each Imm runs their house differently. Would a player who uses thinks be more likely to get a role over an identical player that doesn't? Probably, since as I said in my post thinks are important for numerous reasons.

But I dont think that the command will make or break your reputation in Armageddon, its just like a little bonus that makes the game fun for people around you edited by Xygax. Also alot of characters have said they LIKE to use the think command because it helps them understand their own character.

We wouldn't have the command if we didn't want you to use it, or if it was pointless, etc. Its there to be used, appropriately, and not nescessarily excessively.

And Im not nescessarily saying your supposed to solo-roleplay or that its required. Just that people are watching, and your not always flying solo when you think you are.

This is sorta where it ties back to the powergaming thread, just because you THINK your alone doesn't mean that your suddenly free from any role-play obligations and that you can spam-craft, spam-hunt and twink out your skills through repetitive command pounding.

--Your always in character and if your not role-playing you should use the quit command to log out at the nearest room. That said, you'll likely be alone at times, and since your always role-playing you should always be solo-roleplaying as well. So for example, if your alone in the forest, that doesn't mean you can just blop down and go to sleep to heal your health and fatigue, that is very unrealistic and poor roleplay, even if your alone and thinking no one is around to critique you.--

I think the confusion was over the ingrained thought of roleplay=emoting, which it doesn't.

Does that clear up what I was saying any?

[Angela Christine]

Karma

In such a richly detailed playing environment as the world of Zalanthas, which is very different to most game settings most players will have encountered, there must be some degree of control over which players get to play which roles. The alternative (and this has happened in the past) is that we have a lot of people going around playing races and guilds very badly (i.e., nowhere near what the game's creators intended). Karma is one way in which the staff members exercise this control.

Karma is simply a measure of trust that the staff members have in a given player's:

    - Degree of maturity and responsibility as a role-player, as evidenced by playing roles 'realistically.'

    - Knowledge of the game world, and an appreciation of the way in which the various races, guilds, and so on, interact.

    - Role-playing skill, as evidenced by role-playing in such a way as to show that they are really involved in the game world, and also enriching the game world for other players.

Karma is not an end in itself. Acquiring karma points is not something you should be 'striving towards' as a player; the fun that you get out of role-playing your character should be the primary reward in itself.

Players never get to know how much karma they have, and only find out when a character dies, and it is time to create a new character. (In which case, they will find that they have more options than before, i.e., certain races and guilds which are 'blanked out' for new players are now visible.) Since karma is not an end in itself, there are no 'guidelines' for 'how to get karma' Zalthough there are certain things that good players will exhibit in their playing (see the three points above).

There are, however, certain things that will almost guarantee that you may not be the type of player who will gain karma. Following is a list of features of players who will likely never gain karma, and reasons why these things are considered bad on Armageddon MUD. You will likely not gain karma if you are the type of player who:

never emotes:
    Emoting is the primary form of non-verbal communication in the game, and is in fact a very powerful tool for enriching the game world for both yourself and other players. Not using emotes is somewhat akin to a person in real life who always talks in a monotone, and never shows any facial expression.

does not play within the guidelines set out for your character's clan:
(assuming he/she is in a clan). For example, if your character is in a band of raiders, who have sworn never to enter Allanak for various good reasons, and you have your character enter Allanak (even when you think no one else is on-line ...) on a whim, then you are role-playing poorly.  It's like someone who, in real life, lives safely and happily in a  prosperous city and decides to visit a war zone on the other side of the world 'just because they feel like it.'

skillmax:
    (i.e., repeat commands over and over again, with the intention of trying to raise your character's skill levels). Certainly, everyone practices skills to some degree, but how many people (even on a harsh world such as Zalanthas) blindly repeat things to the exclusion of sleep, food, and social interaction? In some games, it is common to see PCs sparring for several game hours non-stop. On Armageddon MUD, this is considered very unrealistic, and thus, poor role-playing.

Suiciding your character just so that you can see if there are new race/guild options available to you in the character creation process is not acceptable, and will be punished by removal of all karma.

Karma is a totally out of character (OOC) concept, and should have no bearing whatsoever on what happens in the game.

Part of the function of karma is to make life easier for the staff members; those players who over time have demonstrated desirable qualities will 'automatically' gain access to privileged races and guilds. Gaining karma is not, however, the only way to do this. If you feel that you have a case to make about why you should be allowed to play a privileged race or guild (e.g., mul or sorcerer), then you are free to send an application via e-mail to <mud@ginka.armageddon.org>.

This doesn't mention thinking, but "never emotes" is a reason to not get karma, so it isn't unreasonable to think that "never thinks" could have similar consequences.


AC

[Akaramu]

--Your always in character and if your not role-playing you should use the quit command to log out at the nearest room.That said, you'll likely be alone at times, and since your always role-playing you should always be solo-roleplaying as well. So for example, if your alone in the forest, that doesn't mean you can just blop down and go to sleep to heal your health and fatigue, that is very unrealistic and poor roleplay,

Okay, now I am more confused  :?

Are you saying that solo roleplaying as in emoting and thinking when no one is around to interact with is a -requirement- for 'proper play'? Or are you just referring to staying in character and sticking to the rules of realism even when alone? Those are two different shoes for me.

Personally, I tend to be alone during those wee european hours very often, and I idle very often. Typing correct english is a struggle for me. I really dont enjoy spending hours emoting and thinking for the possibility that someone might be watching, it feels like a grind for me, and isnt fun. I do it sometimes when I have some sort of cool idea that I feel like playing out, but it doesnt happen often.

If idleing and lack of enthusiasm for thinking is considered bad play, this probably isnt the mud for me. I'm a perfectionist, I do something right or not at all.  :wink:

Edit to add: I understand the staff wishes to understand a PC with their quirks and goals. However, for me, sending detailed character profiles works much better and doesnt require staff to watch for hours just trying to figure out what I'm up to. I actually enjoy writing those emails. I always hope someone will add many insightful character notes after receiving them. That doesnt mean I will not roleplay all of it in visible ways as well, but the entire complexity is near impossible to figure out by just watching.

[Dakurus]

Cross-posted since I didn't notice this new thread.

Thinks and emotes help flesh out your characters personality and motivations, in the former case for the staff, and in the latter, both the staff and the other players. Although we might be lucky enough to see you interact with another character and say things, roles where there is less interaction, such as players who are in the wilderness away from other people constantly, we're often left clueless to who your character is as a person.

I'm an old time armer, and think was implemented long after I started playing here. I admit having difficulty with it at first, but after repeatedly forcing myself to do it, I find it an invaluable tool. I realize that sometimes I use "think" to express certain things I am thinking as a player, but often this _is_ what my character would think. It helps bring it to the fore for both me, and any staff watching me. Do I think for every action? No, but I'll have thinks in every set of behavior. Talking with someone, cooking/crafting, shopping, seeing a new bit of terrain, practicing, and so on. I often find if I'm alone, I can use thinks, rather then says (I am alone), to express something. "Shit, put a few too many holes in that hide."

You might try imagining trying to watch a character all day long, and that player doesn't think, but does some emotes. You see the character do some talking with others at a bar, then they get up because the sun has risen and head out of town. They travel in the same route day after day, where there are "aggressive" enemies, such as halflings or gith. As they move through the route they, kill each enemy in turn, throwing out some combat emotes. Perhaps they loot, perhaps they don't. On they go, finally reaching their destination. They might be wounded, likely tired. They then rest, sell, collect, or whatever it is they came there for. Again a few emotes and no thinks. They then return along the route doing the same. Repeat this every other day, or perhaps every day, and ask yourself, "Who is this? Why do they do what they do? It's obvious the route is littered with danger, yet they constantly openly engage in such? What's the drive? What are they hoping to gain or solve? Will anything change this?" and so on.

You might make some assumptions about that character, but most would be guesses. Without information, we make wrong guesses. The example above can very easily be adapted to people hunting, exploring and so many other scenarios.

It may not be a requirement to use think, but you shouldn't fault a person for developing an opinion of your character based on the limited information you are willing to give out.

Specifially with regards to idling. It happens, but when you decide to actually become active, or cease idling and decide to do some actions, emotes and thinks are the tools to flesh them out with. If you are alone, or not.

[Anonymous]

Please come on. Let people enjoy their time. I am playing game to have some good time. Rules rules rules...It sucks. Ok, rp is essential element of this game, and I am playing this game with this knowledge, but come on there is no one around to entertain them (I mean when no PC is around). If I like not to emote, I don't (of course, without powerplay (skill boost, etc.))

Think that you play the game with others very good. You and them enjoyed to play together, but what happened? An imm comes with fiery gaze :twisted: , and tells I'll suck all your Karma because you slept at wilderness.

Ok, this is your game, but stop torturing people. It sucks.

Do you know how much hard it is to play for a european in English. I sometimes suffer while trying to emote my  actions, or get others' actions. I have a dictionary, and it is always open. In this condition, you're telling me to emote and think even if I am at wilderness? Then, I invite you to play a MUD in another language that you don't know. How about French, German, Russian, or Turkish? You Imms will have same idea, and same strict attitute?

LET US HAVE A GOOD TIME

Note: Having good time represents players' own perspective, not Imms'.

[Delirium]

Are you saying that solo roleplaying as in emoting and thinking when no one is around to interact with is a -requirement- for 'proper play'? Or are you just referring to staying in character and sticking to the rules of realism even when alone? Those are two different shoes for me.

The latter.

Staying in character and sticking to the rules of realism even when you think you are alone. Emotes and thinks are RP -tools- but they are not roleplay itself. It's perfectly possible to be the world's worst twink AND the world's best emoter.

I gotta say.. play the game for the enjoyment, the fun, the story, and in other words, for yourself.. if you're spending all your time worrying about whether your character's actions seem justified to the Imms or to others... quit it. (Unless you really should be worrying about whether your character's actions are justified, but that's a whole nother story). Just play.

You know your character, you control your character, and if the Immortals see questionable actions and can't figure out the reasons behind them, I doubt they're just going to sit back and snicker at you while aiming rocks at the 'slay' button. They'll probably just ask for an explanation.

[wizturbo]

No one is saying its a RULE, that you must use thinks.  They are saying, it makes things much more interesting, and its a very useful tool for fleshing out your character in detail.

moderated by Xygax

From an immortals perspective...they'll think your character hates elves.  And that piece of information might be important for a plot they're planning to run, which you have a high probability of becoming involved in.  But...since you didn't use a think to make it clear that you were lying, that all goes to shit.

While thinking isn't everything for roleplaying a good character, i'd like to think that those with a lot of karma do it regularly.  


As for solo roleplay, I don't spend time emoting excessively while i'm alone.  I find it boring.  But I do emote to show someone who -might- be watching what i'm doing.  If i'm digging holes, i'll either change my ldesc or emote me digging holes every so often.  If i'm sitting on my ass people watching, i'll emote that.

And lastly, here are my personal rules for when to think, I still forget to follow my own rules at times, but I think they're good.

1.  Think when your lying.

2.  Think when something important has just happened, or you've just figured out something important.  

3.  Think when your motive for a certain action might not be the obvious one.  For instance, if your trying to get someone to drink your poisoned bottle of wine, you should DEFINITELY think!  Something like "Alright, the red bottle has the lifebane poison."  or "Come on you thick headed bastard, just drink it, i'm sick of hearing your filthy tounge flap, meet drov!"  This is SOOOO key.

I often find, that i'll get too caught up in dialogue at times to think, so sometimes i try and think about the conversation right after.  This isn't too unrealistic either, recapping what just happened in your mind right after an event.  Though its probably not as good as thinking in between dialogue, its just hard to remember at times, needs to become habit.

[Gilvar]

People are really making too much out of this, at least with the talk of 'quitting' over something like the use of a think command.

I was trying to clarify the issue where people were saying: "I NEVER THINK AND I NEVER WILL! DOWN WITH THE THINK COMMAND!" from the other thread, whereby people were getting irked at seeing comments about not thinking.

Thinking is part of the game, its a command that you can use sparingly, regularly, or excessively. No one is MAKING you use it, and as of now I dont believe you can be straightforwardly punished for not using it, but don't expect to receive applause for not doing it, or kudos, or anything similar.

There are very nescessary times when you should think. For example if your in a sponsered role in say... the Halflings, and you've found yourself sailing in a skiff off the coast of Red Storm East, if you had a justified reason this would be a prime time to start thinking about what your doing, since its obviously out of the ordinary, extreme, and difficult to understand just from visiual cues.

Again, I think people are making a bigger deal of this then it should be. Nothing new is being devised here, no new rules are being tossed at you, your not being forced into a new facist regime, no one is expecting you to suddenly change your playing style.

[Mar]

Do you know how much hard it is to play for a european in English...

I am one of european players. I know my English is not perfect, but I am trying my best. I do enjoy solo-rp. I am using "think" here and there and I have no idea if it is considered as "enough". It is just here and there. Not all the time, mainly only in cases I think it´s important thought. I just hope that if some IMM thinks it is not "enough", s/he would let me know.

[wizturbo]

..... your not being forced into a new facist regime.....

Finally those capitalist pigs will pay for their crimes, eh? Eh comrades? Eh?

Oh, smashing, groovy, yay capitalism!

[X-D]

Being as some staff is posting here, and being that I don't use the think command, I was wondering if staff notices when somebody is using alternatives to think, such as the char talking to himself or objects?

Because thats what I often do...hell, I do it IRL:)

[Dakurus]

In response to X-D, yes.
Thinks, say/whisper/talk, emotes, all of these actions help staff and other players to see you as a full fledged personality, as opposed to a less then 80 character line of text that moves in an out of rooms.

[Xygax]

I'm moderating a couple of posts that go into a bit too much detail about how thinks interact with certain classes.  Please try to err on the side of discretion in comments like this.

-- X

[Xygax]

On the subject of whether you use thinks or not:  Yes they help the staff understand your activities better than nearly anything else you can do.  Muttering to yourself and talking to (and/or personifying) inanimate objects is fine, but less useful as an RP technique when you're interacting with other players.

There are plenty of other threads on the use of think, which should be revealed by a quick search.

-- X