Do we need more hostile magickers?

[Solas]

Was wondering if this might be the cause of the lack of fear of magickers, though I agree it improved alittle.  :wink:

I added a little extra detail, so not everyone might fit in one of these categories I think. This poll will be up for a period of 20 days from now.

[mansa]

The scariest magickers are the ones that you -don't- see.  Or hear.  They are the ones that wait for the perfect moment, and then kablamo, everything's done and over with.  I think the game itself is self regulating on the magickers.  Sometimes there will be a lot of them, and sometimes there will be none.  I don't want to see more.  (And, remember, you're not going to see a badass magicker in the City, when Tuluk and Allanak are RUN and CONTROLLED by two BADASS MAGICKER KINGS.

[adgohan]

The problem with magickers isn't the number of them, and I agree with Mansa. There really is no need to add more magickers because it is a self-regulating game in that respect.

Magickers would be a lot more scary if positive motion in the code (as discussed in numerous other threads) came to pass and the elementalist guilds were upgraded to have some more fearsome (not necessarily at all more powerful, but this can sometimes be a sub-result) powers.

[Marauder Moe]

I think the cause is that too many people want to play the exception to normal Zalanthan society.  Too many people want to be the kind and decent (according to RL standards) person striving against the corrupt and oppressive majority.  These people want their characters to befriend the suffering and lonely magickers (and halfbreeds, elves, foreigners, mutants, etc).

People are supposed to fear magickers even though most will never see any magick nor will their lives be threatened by magick.  They are supposed to be feared because people grow up hearing tale after tale of horrible things magickers do and repeatedly being told that these people are bad/evil/disgusting.

The best sollution I can think of is for people to emphasize the asociative shunning of magick.  That is to say, be mean to people who converse and hang out with magickers almost as much as you should to magickers themselves.

[Solas]

Hmm. When hostile magickers, I ment the ones that would come up to a target and threaten to 'blow you up a mile into the air and drop you with the power of Whira' kinda ones. I'll also say templar's shouldn't count since it is already preatty much given that the populace is afraid of them. I ment magickers such as ungemmed and gemmed, such as a krathian or drovian.

Personally, my characters have seen seemingly passive magickers, and they were all gemmed. I hope I didn't give any IC info.  :?

[Armaddict]

Erm...I've been a victim to -many- scary magickers.  It's not consistent, it's not "Hey, I meet one every week."  They're around, you just have to do something to arouse their attention, or find them.

And when you do, you'll wish you hadn't.  Powerful magickers who want someone dead...have a -painfully- low failure rate.

[Solas]

I don't think there was mention of having -more- magickers...just if you've been with a hostile one. My point is that the magickers that you -do- see. They're all so passive that you -can't- really be mean to them...(well, you could, but theres no other reason other than things people say about, and if I was a newb, I wouldn't really know the extent of what magickers could do, and thus I would treat them as I would a half-elf (which if I was a newb, I wouldn't really treat that badly either, unless my character found a reason, which there -is-, it's just that...yeah  :? )) I'm guessing your all thinking I'm stupid or something... :cry:

[Marauder Moe]

if I was a newb, I wouldn't really know the extent of what magickers could do, and thus I would treat them as I would a half-elf

No character really knows the extent of what a magicker can do aside from master magickers.  But you DO know (believe) that they can kill you, steal your soul, or give you a nasty rash on your ass just by looking at your or muttering a few words, whereas half-elves can't (unless they're half-elf magickers).

Your character doesn't have to encounter an in-game reason to hate/fear magickers, he/she was probably raised with some.

[Delirium]

Erm...I've been a victim to -many- scary magickers.  It's not consistent, it's not "Hey, I meet one every week."  They're around, you just have to do something to arouse their attention, or find them.

And when you do, you'll wish you hadn't.  Powerful magickers who want someone dead...have a -painfully- low failure rate.

[Bestatte]

I know they're there. Depending on which character I'm playing at any given moment, I'll respond (or not) accordingly. As mentioned previously, the best "hostile" magicker is the one you don't know about. And from experience, I would venture to guess there are exactly as many of THOSE types as is best for the game.

[Angela Christine]

I don't think there was mention of having -more- magickers...just if you've been with a hostile one. My point is that the magickers that you -do- see. They're all so passive that you -can't- really be mean to them...

I understood you.  You don't want more mages, you want mages to be more hostile.  

The problem with this is that a newbie mage MUST be discrete to survive.  Like other skills it takes a while to get good with magick.  A newbie mage can't be certain of escaping a bad situation with magick, much less causing trouble for others.  That isn't a bad thing, there is no reason for newbie mages to be experts from the begining when all other guilds start incompetent.  But it means that they can't start raising hell from day one, all of the actively scarry mages have to have been around for a while.  The ones that try to be menacing from the begining will probably end up dead.

So the problem one of character development.  If your mage has survived for years by being discrete and innofensive, why would he suddenly change his personality and turn into a menace?

There are reasons of course, maybe that meek gemmed mage is tired of being kicked around by ignorant peasants and he snaps.  Maybe the magick drives him crazy.  Or the person that he cared about and linked him to society either died or rejected him.  It could be a lot of things, but it shouldn't be nothing.


Angela Christine

[Solas]

Nicely said, Angela.  :wink:

Angela Christine said:

So the problem one of character development. If your mage has survived for years by being discrete and innofensive, why would he suddenly change his personality and turn into a menace?

I agree, though, I feel it would be more like Armageddon, in my opinion, with more magickers turning into a menace.   :twisted:

[Solas]

Nicely said, Angela.  :wink:

Angela Christine said:

So the problem one of character development. If your mage has survived for years by being discrete and innofensive, why would he suddenly change his personality and turn into a menace?

I agree, though, I feel it would be more like Armageddon, in my opinion, with more magickers turning into a menace.   :twisted:  Of course, not a stupid menace, one that actually tries to stay alive.

[Sakra]

There are reasons of course, maybe that meek gemmed mage is tired of being kicked around by ignorant peasants and he snaps.  Maybe the magick drives him crazy.  Or the person that he cared about and linked him to society either died or rejected him.  Angela Christine

I did that a couples times with on character, it was fun. Especially when all the commoners freaked out and bolted from the room or dove under tables.

Squinting under a table at the crusty, common looking guy as magick crackles around you, you say "Hey you! You saw him start it right?"

[Tattooed Dancer]

Where's the several times and I lost my longest lived pc to date to a magicker?

[Solas]

Well, the question was directed to characters that are currently alive. I hope I didn't state the questions wrong...

[Seeker]

It seems to my character that the place is -crawling- with magickers.  Like every third PC is a wiggler.  

One in ten is open about it, dinking around on the roads or in the wilds, one in ten is a gemmer on a lease in 'nak, and the rest are hidden in Tuluk hanging out for the mudsex.

[Jacques]

I feel a bit hesitant to answer the poll, but I *WILL* note that my very FIRST character here was killed quite efficiently by a 'hostile magicker'. It was kind of a case of "hello..." "the darkness will claim your soul!" ZAP! Mantis Head. Poor, newbie me. I thought it was COOL, and it definately made me want to BE one someday.

[Solas]

It seems to my character that the place is -crawling- with magickers.  Like every third PC is a wiggler.  

One in ten is open about it, dinking around on the roads or in the wilds, one in ten is a gemmer on a lease in 'nak, and the rest are hidden in Tuluk hanging out for the mudsex.

Part of the reason the poll was started was because, with all thoughs magickers that you see at the taverns and in the streets, you (well, at least I did for awhile) become accostumed to passive magickers and the fear that you -should- have of them slowly diminishes, IMO that is. It would be nice if we could start playing with that flame abit, spice things up ICly that would begin a chain reaction with all these passive magickers. (directed to the nonmagicker folks out there that have seen tons of magickers and havn't felt some fear of them. I'm sure you magickers are doing alot of things behind scenes that only a few people may take note of). Just a distant wish, I'm not saying you should go out and start a rebellion or begin a magicker hunt. Then I would feel guilty and shy away from society for awhile.  

[naatok]

We have to remember, as players, that one of the reasons the guild options for magick are controlled by the karma system is because magickers should be relatively rare and very mysterious.

The idea that there are literally droves of magickers throughout Zalanthas is one that disturbs me on a number of levels.

First, I think it would violate the spirit of magick being rare, mysterious and powerful.  Second, it would severely unbalance the game if more than, say, ten percent of the current character base of Arm were composed of magickers of any kind.  Third, unless they are extremely paranoid and anti-social (something I believe most of the more frightening, mysterious and universally hated and feared types would gravitate toward being), magickers will form groups for survivability and to bolster the power of their quest for...well...carrying out their vile magicky ways and goals.

Even a fairly paranoid and anti-social magicker would see the advantage in seeking out and finding like-minded others.  Even if that is only to 'use' them as pawns in their own mad schemes.

If such characters are well-played, this could present fantastic plot opportunities for the rest of the playerbase to become involved in.  If they are not well-played, it could become an unbalancing horror of powergaming and pkilling (thus the main driving idea behind karma control of guild availability).

Please don't get me wrong...I don't see anything wrong with playing a magicker bent on gaining wealth and power at any cost.  It is quite apparent to me that is a realistic trait for a magicker to have.  I just don't want to see that getting out of hand with a mage who leaves piles of hapless dead in her wake as she blazes her way toward uber-powerful glory.

On the reverse side of this issue, it disturbs me to think that many pcs who happen to run into magickers in their lives are more hateful and less fearful of these persons.  Sure, the hate will be there for most...but it should be VERY well balanced by fear of someone controlling forces one does not understand, nor have any hope of controlling him or herself.

Magickers should be DISTURBING...not just anger or hate inducing....especially those who operate outside the accepted 'norm' of social constructs...such as the 'gemmed' in Allanak.  If a 'naki hunter fears the gemmed in his city, imagine what he would feel when meeting a magicker who is not governed by the laws and edicts of the Highlord...the gemless in the wild places of Zalanthas.

In my experience playing magick using characters in Arm, I've had the pleasure of 'schooling' a few in the whys and wherefores of fearing magickers rather than simply hating them.  I've met characters in game who would immediately respond to my mage pc with hostility and even violence, only to find themselves utterly helpless at the hands of my character.  Not only is such a situation personally rewarding, but is enlightening to those players less understanding of the whole 'fear and terror' that a wielder of magickal forces exudes to the average Zalanthan.

I find the most enjoyment in such a character by using it to provide myself and other players with cool, intense roleplay situations and plot line opportunities.

We look to nobles and templars to provide experience direction for many pcs within the city states.  I think that the power-lusting magickers outside the edicts of the powers that be should be played with similar restraint...to be the antithesis to the direction nobles and templars provide for the city states.  This adds a richness and a sense of danger and horror to the game that really fleshes out the harsh and brutal and often amazingly mysterious world of Zalanthas.

[wizturbo]

Beautifully put Naatok.  I completely agree with...yup...everything you said.


Its a bit sad that many people know what magickers are capable of, and some of their weaknesses, so they do not fear these wielders of unspeakable terror in an OOC sense, which then is converted into an IC lack of fear.  People tremble in front of a Templar, why not a sun mage that can burn the flesh off their bones with a gesture and a word?

[Cenghiz]

Its a bit sad that many people know what magickers are capable of, and some of their weaknesses, so they do not fear these wielders of unspeakable terror in an OOC sense, which then is converted into an IC lack of fear. People tremble in front of a Templar, why not a sun mage that can burn the flesh off their bones with a gesture and a word?

'cause the mage won't.. We do know it. It means at least torture to cast inside the gates. Nobody would risk his life..

By the way, thanks to the best hostile mage I've ever met months ago. I'm still a little upset that you didn't call me again to collect the information I offered. So I sold the information to the someone else. That mage even didn't need to cast spells to hurt me. I cowered in fear and dropped my weapons watching the way he played.

Edit: Anyway, as I said it was months ago.. Still I made the changes.

[Larrath]

First of all, please edit the text relating to some information and the group who recieved it.


With this out of the way, maybe magickers won't, but they are sure as hell capable if you annoy them.

Here's an appropriate scenario and a question:
You have been taken only hostage by a crazy killer.  He is holding you at gunpoint, and the LAPD has arrived.  He is for the most part surrounded, and the second he lets you go is the second he gets the snot beat out of him.  If he shoots you, he will undoubtedly die himself.

What do you do:
1) Piss your pants.
2) Strike up casual conversation.


A gemmed magicker strolling into a tavern is not unlike an armed person strolling into a convenience store with their gun license taped to their shoulder.  It is not illegal for him to possess this weapon, which means the law is not going to intervene and toss that psychopath out before someone gets hurt.  Will this man probably die if he shoots someone?  Sure, but you're going to die just the same.  Just keep this in mind the next time a magicker offers you a drink.

[Spud]

I've only ever met one Magicker...and it wasn't hostile. He wanted me and a buddy to help him with something....but I got the bright idea to attack him, not knowing he was a magicker. Lets just say he wasn't too good with magick and whatnot...and he got burned playing with fire. :twisted:

[Dan]

Probably a keyword mishap  :oops:

I attacked someone with a magicker of mine once, and they ran from the room just before the spell went off. Seems I was a cloaked figure too, heh. It reminded me of an old Baobab Comic episode, the one with the Final Fantasy mage.

[Solas]

....I don't know what to say to that.  :?